“What happens if a Russian fighter jet is shot down by a Western weapon in Russian airspace?” answered by Chair of the Defense Committee of the German Bundestag, Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1d7yavv/what_happens_if_a_russian_fighter_jet_is_shot/
19 Comments
voracitude@lemmy.world · 55 pts · 2y
mozz@mbin.grits.dev · 22 pts · 2y
There's more. Her full statement is:
It's an aspect I had not considered -- "I don't want a hostile military alliance coming right up to my country's border" cuts both ways.
partial_accumen@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2y
Its been Putin's argument for invading Ukraine, except Ukraine wasn't hostile militarily to Russia until Russia started seizing Ukrainian land in Crimea, Luhansk, and Donetsk.
Ukraine was fine turning its back on Russia and embracing the rest of Europe economically, not militarily. Russia was NOT fine with that and started invading.
mozz@mbin.grits.dev · 10 pts · 2y
Yeah. You can actually look at the timeline, and there was an extensive debate inside Ukraine about whether or not they should make any kind of attempt at NATO, with the "not" side being initially pretty strong, and for pretty much exactly the reason you'd expect. And then, every time Russia did some unprovoked horrifying military aggression nearby or directly to them, the eagerness for NATO within Ukraine got a lot greater, until at this point, they and the West are both firmly in favor of it once things stabilize to a non-WW3 level of safety to do that.
The whole "Russia responded after the West tried to get Ukraine into NATO, which Ukraine had no independent desire for" thing is backwards in two whole separate different ways.
voracitude@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2y
mozz@mbin.grits.dev · 6 pts · 2y
Wasn’t intending it as any kind of negative thing, just giving more of the info, since you provided some which I thought was a good idea
NOT_RICK@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 2y
Based
ambitious_bones@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2y
Thanks for saving me that click on that site
ZapBeebz_@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 2y
Sounds like the consequences of Russia's actions are catching up to it. You can't just violently ignore your neighbors borders and expect them to respect yours.
mozz@mbin.grits.dev · 2 pts · 2y
I mean you can expect whatever you want.
As commonly happens, step 1 "I AM STRONG, I SHALL DO AS I LIKE, FUCK YOU, WHAT YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT" has progressed by step 3-4 into "However could you be so rude, this is definitely not allowed, won't someone think of the rules and how unfair it is that this is happening to me?" I honestly don't know why that exists as a general rule but it is definitely a noticeable pattern in the world.
partial_accumen@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 2y
It means the Western signatories of the Budapest memorandum are keeping their word to defend Ukraine's sovereign in exchange for Ukraine surrendering its nuclear weapons in 1994.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2y
But attacking Russian targets is Russia isn't defending -Russia
golli@lemm.ee · 3 pts · 2y
Is that actually something they promised in the Budapest memorandum?
My knowledge on the topic is very limited, but based on Wikipedia i was under the impression that signatories essentially only promised to not attack themself (which Russia clearly violated) and offer assistance only in the limited case where nuclear weapons are used (which isn't the case). Also "assistance" can mean defense, but doesn't necessarily, making it quite vague and the point about consultations when questions arise makes it even less binding.
ratel@mastodon.social · 17 pts · 2y
@mozz it's destroyed, I guess.
MataVatnik@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 2y
In case peopke forgot "Donbass separatists" shot down a civilian airliner with Russian weapons. That Rubicon was crossed almost a decade ago.
Balthazar@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 2y
What happens when an Iranian drone or North Korean rocket is used to attack Ukraine?
MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 2y
The pilot dies?
coffinwood@discuss.tchncs.de · 8 pts · 2y
As a fellow German I can rest you assured that not even we all can read her name correctly on first try. I had weaker Wi-Fi passwords.
NoiseColor@startrek.website · 7 pts · 2y
We celebrate?
FlowVoid@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 2y
An angel gets its wings
bradorsomething@ttrpg.network · 5 pts · 2y
Does anyone ask Zelensky if he should declare war on North Korea because russia bought shells from them?