I just added some max_speed= tags for #OpenStreetMap in Bloomington, Indiana.
Our city code has a default speed limit 25 mph. Exceptions are published in a table in the city code.
It seems possible that adding the correct lower-than-default speed limits from city code to OpenStreetMap could reduce the likelihood that routing algorithms would route car traffic there, which could in turn keep the street safer for other road users.
19 Comments
superkret@feddit.org · 2 pts · 1y
Please don't litter OpenStreetMap with false data to manipulate routing.
markstos@urbanists.social · 1 pts · 1y
@superkret No one was suggesting that.
superkret@feddit.org · 1 pts · 1y
Sorry, then I misread.
markstos@urbanists.social · 1 pts · 1y
@superkret I filled in some missing values based on correct values found in city code.
DemonHusky@better.boston · 1 pts · 1y
@markstos @bloomington_in on the other side, bike routing likely gets better too
pleaseclap@urbanists.social · 0 pts · 1y
@DemonHusky @markstos @bloomington_in Bike routes will get more direct, but "better" may not be applicable, since the more direct routes also encourage drivers to speed
That said cities tend to add bike lanes only after people get annoyed with bike traffic, so maybe down the road it might add some lane miles
markstos@urbanists.social · 1 pts · 1y
pleaseclap@urbanists.social · 1 pts · 1y
@markstos @DemonHusky @bloomington_in
What DemonHusky said:
A map app suggesting a route for a bike will try to minimize time via the slowest streets. For a car, it will try to minimize time via the fastest streets (which are usually more direct in terms of distance)
So if the algorithm suggesting a route thinks all streets are the same speed, bikes and cars will be suggested the same low-distance routes, which will usually be routes featuring excessive speeding by drivers
pleaseclap@urbanists.social · 1 pts · 1y
@markstos @DemonHusky @bloomington_in
Besides speed, there's probably also an "is there a bike lane" check, which would mitigate the problem a bit in places where the main roads mostly also have bike lanes
markstos@urbanists.social · 1 pts · 1y
markstos@urbanists.social · 1 pts · 1y
pleaseclap@urbanists.social · 1 pts · 1y
@markstos @DemonHusky @bloomington_in I haven't seen a routing algorithm's code, but a preference for arterial roads can be explained solely by speed limits
markstos@urbanists.social · 1 pts · 1y
@pleaseclap @DemonHusky @bloomington_in I’ve looked at the code. My servers have bike routing coverage for most of the US and EU with the OpenTripPlanner and Valhalla engines. Occasionally we find edge cases that don’t route optimally and look into patches.
Lots of roads don’t have max speeds in OpenStreetMap which they both use, so other signals are essential.
pleaseclap@urbanists.social · 1 pts · 1y
@markstos @DemonHusky @bloomington_in
You've seen your specialty bike routing algorithms. I'm glad they're good algorithms, however
your first post is about misrepresenting speed limits in OpenStreetMap (which is a community resource, yes?) to effect driver behavior, and what systemic effects this would have for every user of every tool that uses OpenStreetMap
Even if you don't think this will lead to congestion on the same roads, I'm not sure it's ethical
DemonHusky@better.boston · 1 pts · 1y
@markstos @pleaseclap @bloomington_in without knowing the local area, I was thinking not that there might be basically parallel routes with different speed limits, and car routing would choose the higher limit option, while bike routing chooses the lower limit option. But with the assumption that the limits reflect something else about the road condition and how comfortable biking is, the routing algorithm now has a better signal to choose the better route