Well put Mr. Tusk.
Tusk: Right now, 500 million Europeans are begging 300 million Americans for protection from 140 million Russians who have been unable to overcome 50 million Ukrainians for three years
https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-tusk-plan-train-poland-men-military-service-russia/
60 Comments
Lemmist@lemm.ee · 17 pts · 1y
guy@piefed.social · 16 pts · 1y
TIL Russia's war in Ukraine is as bloody as WW2
davel@lemmy.ml · 21 pts · 1y
Not from deaths so much as emigrations and secessions.
Dasus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1y
Don't forget about all the Ukrainian children abducted by Russia, for which Putin has an ICC warrant out for him, because doing that shit is one of the hallmarks of genocide.
skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl · 16 pts · 1y
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Suoko@feddit.it · 12 pts · 1y
37 before war.
6 displaced abroad (unhcr)
7 displaced internally.
So around 30 left officially
superkret@feddit.org · 8 pts · 1y
And Germany is taking on 1 trillion Euros in new debt to protect against Russia, which is currently spending less on its military than the EU, while fighting a war.
PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk · 14 pts · 1y
citation needed.
I've seen the €800b figure but that's the EU as a whole, not Germany on its own
superkret@feddit.org · 11 pts · 1y
Germany is currently planning a "whatever it takes" spending plan of 500 billion for infrastructure projects and an equally high, but potentially unlimited amount for defense.
https://www.ft.com/content/ee20978f-bbcd-4616-954c-7749dc5334fd
friendlymessage@feddit.org · 9 pts · 1y
Over 10 years
sunbeam60@lemmy.one · 8 pts · 1y
So ok, that’s not one trillion.
PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 1y
Paywall so can't see whats written in that ft article. Deutsche Welle says 400bn for defense plus 500bn for infrastructure investment over 10 years
index@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 1y
Nobody is begging. Politicians are using "defence" as a leverage to enpower and enrich themself
Thebigguy@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 1y
Seeing as I invented this meme I’ll overuse it
seeigel@feddit.org · 2 pts · 1y
He knew that before Trump's election but didn't make it an issue. He also knows that it implies that Russia will never attack Poland, let alone Poland allied with Europe.
What's the real need for the strengthened military?
index@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1y
same as it ever was
ReakDuck@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 1y
Doesn't Russia want to see Nato entirely gone?
umbrella@lemmy.ml · -15 pts · 1y
robador51@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 1y
No.
umbrella@lemmy.ml · -7 pts · 1y
PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 1y
There is tons of EU countries troops in Ukraine, but officially they are all "volunteers" and "mercenaries" but there's also some more or less official NATO soldiers serving as military advisors, trainers etc. There's also events like the Polish general Marczak suddenly dying in sketchy circumstances coincidentally on the same day when Russia heavily bombed one of the mercenary bases.
index@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 1y
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html
"For more than a decade, the United States has nurtured a secret intelligence partnership with Ukraine that is now critical for both countries in countering Russia."
robador51@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 1y
Sorry, are you talking about Poland? Then yes, Poland is part of NATO and there is US presence there, I'm not sure about other countries having a presence there. I thought you meant Ukraine, which is not part of the NATO.
umbrella@lemmy.ml · -3 pts · 1y
LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 1y
Most every Russian troop being killed is via drone. Something like 96% of those drones are produced in Ukraine. Funding a war is expensive, especially when you are vastly out numbered population wise. Of course they want as much aid as possible.
umbrella@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 1y
daellat@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1y
Not by a long shot. Even Ukraine only claims in the region of 800,000 casualties on the Russian side, the majority of which are wounded not dead.
LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 1y
Where are you sourcing that from? (That's way higher than most are claiming for either side) Also, that has nothing to do with what we were talking about
robador51@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 1y
There are no boots on the ground from NATO in Ukraine; They receive support and aid in the form of money, weapons, intelligence, training, and material. They still have an economy, and have international trade, so it's not as if they're not paying for anything themselves. Much of the aid they receive is then spend on material from the country that gave the aid, arguably the US defense industry, amongst others, makes money of this war.
They've been keen to join NATO as a deterrent for Russian aggression, with very good reason. They're fighting an existential threat. Putin has made no secret that he doesn't consider Ukraine a country.
This concerns all of us in 'the West', because we've built our democracies around a concept of freedom and trade that the likes of Russia have been working very hard to destroy.
halykthered@lemmy.ml · -16 pts · 1y
Intent aside, wouldn't it be easier to shore up current defences? Ukraine is already the NATO crumple zone, it would make more sense to keep them at that line.
Now for blind conjecture. Perhaps trump sold out Ukraine to allow Russia to have the minerals and oil of Ukraine. In exchange, Europe gets the constant threat of WW3. Americans, scared to stay where they're at, but are more terrified by the prospects of open war as it sweeps across countries, stay on American shores.
Barbarian@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 1y
I don't like referring to people fighting for their culture, society, family and future as a "crumple zone".
halykthered@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 1y
I'm not crazy about the concept, either, but I'm also going to call a spade a spade. When Ukraine falls, the front will shift to new borders, introducing war and displacement to new areas. If Russia advances, all of Europe will have been able to help prevent it, but did not. They would have let Ukraine get ground to dust for a few years, only to fall anyway. Sure, they helped a little, with training and supplies, but the death toll is uniquely Ukrainian.
ScoobyDope@lemm.ee · 3 pts · 1y
Seriously, what in the lack-of-empathy did I just read? Empathy isn’t that hard. Imagine you lived there. Your loved ones. How would you feel about it then?
Edit for grammar.
ReakDuck@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 1y
Empathy might be hard. It just depends on the Person, mental state, perspective, etc.
If empathy would be easy, then why did Trump win?
ScoobyDope@lemm.ee · -7 pts · 1y
Because propaganda hits harder. They have empathy for the poor kids that are being forced to be transgender and gay by their parents. They have empathy for the people losing their jobs and being raped by immigrants.
ReakDuck@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 1y
Mate, I think whatever propaganda you're talking about, worked.
AfricanExpansionist@lemmy.ml · -29 pts · 1y
Is Russia going to invade Germany? Do people really think that's what's going to happen?
Imagine saying that with a straight face
masterspace@lemmy.ca · 44 pts · 1y
Imagine thinking that 80 million Germans would invade 540 million Europeans.
Imagine saying that with a straight face in 1939.
sunbeam60@lemmy.one · -1 pts · 1y
Spot on!
robador51@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 1y
Unlikely. Baltic states though? Poland? Finland?
masterspace@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 1y
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania would likely be first as they are surrounded by water, Russia, and Belarus.
robador51@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 1y
Like I said; the Baltic states.
Dasus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1y
The Baltic states or the Baltic countries is a geopolitical term encompassing Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. All three countries are members of NATO, the European Union, the Eurozone, Council of Europe, and the OECD.
So Russia attacks one of them, and we Finns get to start playing this again.
And we're sort of itching to.
Blaiz0r@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 1y
The other week the leader of the AFD said she would hand east Germany back to Russia
epicstove@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 1y
Isn't that the side of Germany that voted for them???
sunbeam60@lemmy.one · 2 pts · 1y
Correct.
sunbeam60@lemmy.one · 7 pts · 1y
If we don’t stop Russia in Ukraine and we don’t stop Russia in the Baltics then we might end up having stop them in Poland and Germany, yes. And if you can’t see that, I believe you would benefit from studying history.
Besides, we aren’t rearming to fight with Russia. We are rearming to ensure we don’t have to fight with Russia.
ScoobyDope@lemm.ee · 7 pts · 1y
The Russian playbook for post Cold War dominance was literally publicly published a long time ago, and the final phase is getting close. After getting the US to break away from the rest of the west, everything was being carved up for their allies.
It’s all written in The Third Empire: Russia as it Ought to be. Almost all the steps have been completed and invaded Europe is coming up.
piratekaiser@lemm.ee · 0 pts · 1y
Can you share that? Having a hard time finding it
ScoobyDope@lemm.ee · 2 pts · 1y
Uhhh, it’s kinda scary, but I can’t find the book anymore, only articles about it. Here’s one article:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/putin-kremlin-foreign-policy-strategy/629388/
triing@reddthat.com · 6 pts · 1y
I believe the book you might be referring to is called Foundations of Geopolitics by Aleksandr Dugin.
SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 1y
They have the right novel, it's just difficult to find a copy outside of Russia.
SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 1y
It's likely because it was never translated into English.
ScoobyDope@lemm.ee · 2 pts · 1y
I have a copy that I bought maybe 9 years ago from Amazon. It’s no longer for sale anywhere that I could find.
TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee · 1 pts · 1y
Scan and upload?
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1y
Moldova has a Russian separatist movement just like Ukraine had.
fibojoly@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 1y
I guess you weren't alive in 1989 when the wall fell?
Suoko@feddit.it · 3 pts · 1y
Well, did you think you could have been told that Russia invaded Ukraine? With a straight face?
Skyrmir@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1y
If not for someone to stop him, yes Putin would march all the way back to East Germany. As it is, he's most likely going to get stuck before touching Poland. And touching Poland would be the end of Putin almost immediately.
angrystego@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1y
Would it be the end of him even now, when he's backed by the US? That changes the dynamic and puts all of Europe in a tough spot. Europe against Russia is a piece of cake. Europe agaist Russia + US.. not so much.
Skyrmir@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1y
It doesn't really change the power dynamic at all. Poland would end Putin, even if it meant their annihilation, and they have the capability to do it on their own. Also, as much as Trump is on Putins side, it's still actually illegal for US troops to invade European countries. And nothing but a law annulling US treaties from congress can change that. US treaties are US law is a basic foundation of military education. The sycophants at the top can't change that, meaning they will have dissension in the ranks when they try to send illegal orders.
Trump is caught in the problem that his approval drops faster as he breaks the law faster. And if it drops too fast, congress will fight back to keep their own jobs. Starting a war with NATO, Canada, or Mexico would be the end of him. As much as his cult follows him, they're still a minority of the country, and his hold on the media is simply driving the populace to uncontrolled media.
humanspiral@lemmy.ca · -13 pts · 1y
They are trying to. And the BS about needing defense is actually the traditional European fantasy of invading Russia, or now openly inviting nuclear annihilation of Europe to spare the US from non nuclear winter consequences.
Europe thinks it can serve the CIA in opposition to Trump, but there natural continuation of CIA sycophancy is more desperation to serve US empire. Increasing the stupidity level to 10, with mass military programs and nuclear threats, makes it easy to go to 11, with mass imports of US weapons when they conclude that they simply weren't stupid or lying enough on Russophobia.
glimse@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1y
Nobody wants to invade Russia, what the fuck?
humanspiral@lemmy.ca · -9 pts · 1y
Tusk/Poland do have another option for building up an army. At start of Ukraine war, there was Polish media endgame where Poland took a big chunk of western Ukraine. Russia may not care, except that Polish-Russian peace works just as well as a Ukraine-Russia peace for denazification.
Any crackhead in Europe who doesn't know they helped whitewash the US/Ukraine provocation. is a culpable idiot who want's war on Russia no matter how badly it has turned out so far.