"But today I changed my mind, completely," Ai said. "The West (is) not even (in a) position to accuse China. (They must) just check on their record (of) what they did on international human rights, (their) freedom of speech record."
"But today I changed my mind, completely," Ai said. "The West (is) not even (in a) position to accuse China. (They must) just check on their record (of) what they did on international human rights, (their) freedom of speech record."
40 Comments
Zorque@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 216d
"But whattabout..."
One can legitimately criticize another while still having vices of their own. This does not diminish the criticism, only lack of truth would do that.
I have plenty of personal issues I need to work on... that doesn't mean I have no right to criticize others for their issues. Especially if they refuse to even acknowledge them, much less work to overcome them.
It affects value judgments such as "We're better than you because..." but those are pointless and petty statements, and don't deserve critical thought anyways.
RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 217d
As if China isn't one of Israel's biggest trading partners.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 9 pts · 216d
Also Russians, and Iran too
dubyakay@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 216d
It's almost like they are everyone's biggest trading partner.
jimmy90@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 216d
yeah you can question morals, you just get called a hypocrite which is fine
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 213d
China is everyone's biggest trading partners.
perestroika@slrpnk.net · 26 pts · 216d
I appreciate the call for introspection, but I think human rights violations should be criticized regardless, and even more widely than currently. I don't care who does it - it's everyone's duty.
Special attention should be focused on severe and extensive violations.
Example: should we not criticize Iran for killing protesters? Should we not criticize Russia for attempting to conquer Ukraine and bombing civilians? Should we not criticize Israel for bombing civilians and starving Gaza's population? Those are severe and extensive violations. If nobody makes a fuss, they become normality.
As for China... violations in China are extensive. Millions of people are affected by detainment, coercive relocation or forced labour programs. National identities of minority peoples are being erased, people are relocated by force or imprisoned if they oppose. People's languages and customs are being banned from public life and education, religious minorities are discriminated against. Some violations are also severe (death penalty is meted out regularly for those who oppose too much).
I note: an average European country can criticize that without looking hypocritical.
Yesterday I criticized my own country, today I will criticize another country, and I expect politicians to meet the same standard.
vga@sopuli.xyz · 10 pts · 216d
That's an altogether new type of dissident, Shirley.
Not that he's not right technically, but if only the saints can judge anyone, then I guess everything's allowed.
whereIsTamara@lemmy.org · 9 pts · 217d
Lmfao, whataboutism from the Wumao? No wayyyyy
perestroika@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 216d
Ai Weiwei hasn't been known as a wumao. He didn't appear out of nowhere, he has some history.
whereIsTamara@lemmy.org · 2 pts · 216d
It’s still whataboutism.
perestroika@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 216d
True. I wonder what changed from his viewpoint.
whereIsTamara@lemmy.org · 2 pts · 216d
Probably got re-educated.
andrewrgross@slrpnk.net · 0 pts · 217d
I don't think you read the article.
whereIsTamara@lemmy.org · 6 pts · 216d
Whataboutism.
andrewrgross@slrpnk.net · -1 pts · 216d
No:
Whataboutism is when you defend bad behavior by trying to justify it based on other bad behavior. The whole point of the article is that Weiwei is pointing out failures in Europe in al the context of criticizing the behavior of the Chinese government. It's literally the opposite of whataboutism.
The article explains pretty clearly that Weiwei is a critic of China's human rights abuses, and has expanded their criticism to recognize the growing human rights abuses among China's western critics, which has undermined global human rights and the ability of these nations to credibly pressure China to improve.
Again, I will say: respectfully, I suspect you did not click the link to the article before opining on it.
whereIsTamara@lemmy.org · 2 pts · 216d
"Whataboutism" or "whataboutery" (as in, "but what about X?") refers to the propaganda strategy of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation instead of offering an explanation or defense against the original accusation. It is an informal fallacy that the accused party uses to avoid accountability—whether attempting to distract by shifting the conversation's focus away from their behaviour or attempting to justify themselves by pointing to the similar behaviour (which may be true or false, but irrelevant) of their opponent or another party who is not the current subject of discussion.[1]
andrewrgross@slrpnk.net · 0 pts · 216d
You're not even responding to anything I said. To repeat: you, me, and Weiwei are all on the same side. We're all critics of the Chinese Communist Party's human rights record. No one is engaging in whataboutery in this article.
You know what would be an absolute Chad move, here? I don't think this is likely, but if anyone is reading this, take note:
You can just say, 'That's a good point: I didn't read far enough to get important context and misunderstood. Thanks for the correction.'
That's an option. I've absolutely misunderstood an article I didn't fully read and had someone politely correct me. It's okay and healthy to just own it.
whereIsTamara@lemmy.org · 0 pts · 216d
Of course I’m not. When you acknowledge the comment is whataboutism, based on the definition of the word, then maybe we can have a conversation. 🤷♂️
ryannathans@aussie.zone · -8 pts · 216d
He's not wrong, China probably has better freedom of speech now than the UK
perestroika@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 216d
How did you arrive on that conclusion? I read several UK-based news sites and they criticize the government on a daily basis.
ryannathans@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 216d
Someone told another person to "speak clearly" because they're deaf and got arrested for hate speech
Someone was discussing the problems of immigration in public and was arrested for the same
Thousands have been arrested for opposing genocide in Gaza under terrorism laws
perestroika@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 215d
Do you have a source for this claim?
ryannathans@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 215d
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-09-07/uk-police-arrest-about-900-at-protest-palestinian-action/105745058
900 on one day alone
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 216d
They don't lol, they censor the hell out of their Internet, the netizens have to use proxies and anti detect browser just to bypass the firewalls.
whereIsTamara@lemmy.org · 2 pts · 216d
Uhhh……….Chinese people cannot communicate beyond the wall, lol
ryannathans@aussie.zone · -4 pts · 216d
UK people can't communicate with each other
Stamau123@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 216d
Yes they can, you liar
andrewrgross@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 216d
I feel like this comment section is primarily made up of dril and Ken M. tweets.
There are so many comments like the one you're replying to that just make no sense except as absurdist humor.
Hotznplotzn@lemmy.sdf.org · 5 pts · 216d
What holds him back to return to China then?
schizoidman@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 216d
Ai Weiwei quietly returns to China after a decade: ‘It felt like a phone call suddenly reconnecting’
JeffVanGundy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 216d
The human rights violations that the West keeps pointing out.
Twinklebreeze@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 216d
AI? That's a downvote. /s
electric_nan@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 216d
It always did. The US causes a greater net harm on the world than all your favorite "authoritarian regimes" combined.
andrewrgross@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 217d
Legit.
I genuinely believe that the most important steps any American who is concerned about human rights abuses in foreign countries can make is to remedy the flagrant human rights abuses they see at home.
Freedom and rights don't really come from governments: they come from what people demand and the restrictions they impose on their leaders. So if you want safety for the Uygers, for instance, you don't go reprimand Xi Jinping: you treat Muslims in your own country well, and you treat visiting Chinese nationals well, and popularize principles of a free society internationally through actions.
Weiwei is right: we need less talk, more action.
Zorque@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 216d
We need both talk and action. They are not mutually exclusive.
Dupelet@piefed.social · 7 pts · 217d
America maybe, but the West is more than just the States
Zomg@piefed.world · 1 pts · 216d
Sadly, this is kinda true now.
cv_octavio@piefed.ca · 1 pts · 213d