Crumb
c/technology · by kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml · 11d

Twitch under fire for new gen AI training system that harvests streamer data for Amazon, says it's on by default because 'if it was opt-in, nobody would opt in'

https://www.pcgamer.com/software/ai/twitch-under-fire-for-new-gen-ai-training-system-that-harvests-streamer-data-for-amazon-says-its-on-by-default-because-if-it-was-opt-in-nobody-would-opt-in/

165 points · 20 comments · view on lemmy.world

20 Comments

Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 11d (1 reply)

In any other situation doing something to someone without asking because they’d say “no” would be a crime.

digdilem@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 11d

If this affects European users then the GDPR does make it a crime.

Numuruzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 18 pts · 11d

We decided to just trick people into accepting it because it was a lot easier than trying to explain how it's in their best interest, since it isn't.

umbrella@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 11d

it's so frustrating how they know we hate it, so they push it in a more aggressive inescapable way.

SnailMagnitude@mander.xyz · 7 pts · 11d (8 replies)

By the time you are livestreaming on twitch one would assume all caution regarding feeding the beast has long left the room and few fucks will be given.

kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml · 28 pts · 11d (3 replies)

that's exactly what they want you to think.

this shouldn't be normalized

SnailMagnitude@mander.xyz · -8 pts · 11d (2 replies)

unfortunately feeding the beast was normalized long ago

there was some resistance in the early 2000's but we got lazy and want cheap flights, easy ways to pay for shit and real time maps so gave it all up for lolz

kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 11d (1 reply)

those didnt generate slop and steal from creators

generative AI is different

i think it can be useful in some situations but i think it should be trained ethically

SnailMagnitude@mander.xyz · -7 pts · 11d

There was no need to steal, people willing gave access into every facet of their lives from banking to socials to spotify.

We were generating the slop and feeding it to the beast on a grand scale for decades, now the beast is vomiting all the slop back up.

kibiz0r@midwest.social · 13 pts · 11d (3 replies)

No, "convenience" isn't the problem: Enshittification isn't caused by "lazy consumers."

Using Amazon, or Twitter, or Facebook, or Google, or Doordash, or Uber doesn't make you lazy. Platform capitalism isn't enshittifying because you made the wrong shopping choices.

…

When [we] blame corporate power on "laziness," we buy into the corporations' own story about how they came to dominate our lives: we just prefer them. This is how Google explains away its 90% market-share in search: we just chose Google. But we didn't, not really – Google spends tens of billions of dollars every single year buying up the search-box on every website, phone, and operating system:

https://pluralistic.net/2024/02/21/im-feeling-unlucky/#not-up-to-the-task

Blaming "laziness" for corporate dominance also buys into the monopolists' claim that the only way to have convenient, easy-to-use services is to cede power to them. Facebook claims it's literally impossible for you to carry on social relations with the people that matter to you without also letting them spy on you. When we criticize people for wanting to hang out online with the people they love, we send the message that they need to choose loneliness and isolation, or they will be complicit in monopoly.

SnailMagnitude@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 9d

Corey's entertaining on the evangelical circuit but I'd be wary of reading those kinda shitposts as Gospels.

Laziness still a factor methinks and people are often not that stupid ime, they know exactly what they are doing when they outsource social networking to meta or shopping to Jeff.

We've been outsourcing effort since the oldowan and things got really bad in wake of writing, this is not new.

The twitch thing seems a bit absurd where if streamers don't consent the poor LLM's will need to actually watch the drivel they are openly streaming for attention instead of getting it via API which will just waste more cpu cycles for lolz.

umbrella@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 11d (1 reply)

what's the solution, then?

i can see a somewhat clear path in moving people not off of social media, but to fairer platforms.

kibiz0r@midwest.social · 3 pts · 11d

Luckily, we're not just "consumers." We're also citizenswho can exercise political power. That's hard work – but so is organizing a co-op or a boycott. The difference is, when we dog enforcers who wield the power of the state, and line up behind them when they start to do their jobs, we can make deep structural differences that go far beyond anything we can make happen as consumers:

https://pluralistic.net/2022/10/18/administrative-competence/#i-know-stuff

We're not just "consumers" or "citizens" – we're also workers, and when workers come together in unions, they, too, can concentrate the diffuse, atomized power of the individual into a single, powerful entity that can hold the forces of capital in check:

https://pluralistic.net/2024/04/10/an-injury-to-one/#is-an-injury-to-all

And all of these things work together; when regulators do their jobs, they protect workers who are unionizing:

https://pluralistic.net/2023/09/06/goons-ginks-and-company-finks/#if-blood-be-the-price-of-your-cursed-wealth

And strong labor power can force cartels to abandon their plans to rig the market so that every consumer choice makes them more powerful:

https://pluralistic.net/2023/10/01/how-the-writers-guild-sunk-ais-ship/

And when consumers can choose better, local, more ethical businesses at competitive rates, those choices can make a difference:

https://pluralistic.net/2022/07/10/view-a-sku/

Antimonopoly policy is the foundation for all forms of people-power. The very instant corporations become too big to fail, jail or care is the instant that "voting with your wallet" becomes a waste of time.

vapeloki@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 11d (2 replies)

Every European which user should now use its GDPR rights and ask them what data they have of us and what they do with it.

kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 11d (1 reply)

doing that often gets you banned from the service ._.

vapeloki@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 11d

That also is illegal in Europe. They must answer those questions. That is Our right ad a European citizen. They can not sanction you for this.

riskable@programming.dev · 2 pts · 11d (2 replies)

At least they're being honest about it. 99% of the companies training AI or selling people's data to AI companies are doing so without telling anyone.

Having said that, Twitch streams are public almost all of the time so complaining that they're being used in ways the creator never intended is a bit like complaining that someone caught you picking your nose in public.

We learned this lesson in the 90s: Once something goes public on the Internet, it is no longer under the creator's/publisher's control. People can and will do whatever TF they want with it. As long as they're not redistributing it without permission, that is legal.

It's everyone's right to do whatever TF they want with the stuff that's literally sent to their computer on purpose. That includes using that thing to train AI.

kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 11d

people have always been against stealing creators' content

now some of y'all for some reason are fine with it if it's a multi trillion dollar company doing the stealing :|

tyler@programming.dev · 5 pts · 11d

It's everyone's right to do whatever TF they want with the stuff that's literally sent to their computer on purpose. That includes using that thing to train AI.

Exactly. As long as they don’t sell it or anything directly derived from it for profit afterwards. Else that would be copyright infringement, as has been tested in court thousands of times.

leanleft@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 10d

tiktok does this, reddit does this.
discord says they wont sell your data, but doesnt say wether they use it to train their own AI