@MisterFrog@pHr34kY yeah, North-East Link was supposed to be $16 billion in construction costs and cost $100 billion over it's life time. But was predicted to produce $110 billion in value (In truck freight, roads for cars are always massive losses). But a $10 billion cost overrun means that it definitely won't produce any value at all.
@bluemoon Everywhere that has tried free public transport sees a 30℅ increase in ridership, but no reduction in car use. The 30% increase comes out of active transport so it's a very expensive upkeep cost to get people walking to take the bus instead.
If money is available to make public transport free then that money would be better spent on things that will result in large increases in ridership and actually reduce car usage by expanding the public transport network and running more frequent services.
You can remove the requirement for drivers to enforce fares without removing the fare as most people will still pay it.
@notgold The classic second stage of the Car Ponzi scheme. They make a big list of the problems that cars created, ascribe them to population growth and then double down on cars as the solution.
@TootSweet@ajsadauskas They'll just completely rewrite it from scratch using a newer LLM and that will be considered normal. In those 5yrs the percentage of developers who remember the idea of code having longevity will be tiny.
@pathief@ProdigalFrog it's just physically not possible to build enough parking for everyone to always have a park. You have trouble finding a park because that's just the physical reality. Adding more parking (like adding more lanes) doesn't increase availability because of induced demand and the inherent inefficiency of cars.
Reducing parking won't reduce the parking available to you. Just as reducing the number of car lanes won't reduce your ability to drive places.
@Crazypartypony@glasgitarrewelt But if parking restrictions are enforced and people can't park and thus can't use cars then there will be political will for public transport. Public transport is cheaper to deploy than all the car infrastructure even for small townships.
@DLSchichtl@Iron_Lynx of course there are things that can't be delivered in bicycles and of course this only make sense with enough density.
But density is a goal of urbanism.
The places in the world that currently have success doing bicycle deliveries right now allow night time or off peak van/truck deliveries.
Most deliveries are small packages, especially the deliveries that are time sensitive and so are ideal for cargo bike delivery.
The 2-3 photocopier deliveries a week are done with a van at night.
@ChicoSuave@HiddenLayer5 you've got it the wrong way around. The anti-car/pro public transport/urbanism movement always has the goal of reducing the cost of transport and the cost of housing to make places that are livable for people on lower incomes.
Cars in rural areas aren't a concern because they're places where population density is so low that cars have fewer negative effects.
But rural public transport between townships and major cities can also make getting places quicker, easier and safer.
Building public transport in and to higher density areas doesn't stop you from driving your car in a rural area.
@Yondoza@anewbeginning Parking is a huge tax on everything. Parking minimums means that the government forces every business to build the cost of parking in to all their prices. Every house and apartment has the cost of parking added to it. In the case of a highrise apartment this can be an extra $50K on to the price of the apartment.
Governments could instead force businesses and housing developers to put that money toward public transport.
The forced cost of parking in the USA is more than the entire national debt.
@zoe@frankPodmore Driving licences and traffic lights were invented because car drivers were too dangerous to safely mix with existing road traffic and we needed to restrain them. Bicycles have never been a significant danger to other road traffic. We don't require licences for people to ride bicycles for the same reason we don't require licences for pedestrians, it's a ridiculous idea that would do nothing useful.
@nicklockwood@TDCN@Showroom7561 no, it's just politically impossible to mandate speed limiters. Governments tried 50yrs ago and haven't tried again since. Car manufacturers want people to know they can speed. It's all over their marketing.
@TDCN@acs 5 out of 5 pedestrians will survive a collision with a car traveling at 20km/hr, only 4 out of 5 will survive a collision with a car traveling at 40km/h.
This doesn't include the large difference in level of injury.
So by speeding your taking a situation where nobody should die and making it a situation where someone might.
A 20km/h area is an area where there will be lots of people to hit so it's even more important to stick to the speed limit in that situation
@MisterFrog @pHr34kY yeah, North-East Link was supposed to be $16 billion in construction costs and cost $100 billion over it's life time. But was predicted to produce $110 billion in value (In truck freight, roads for cars are always massive losses). But a $10 billion cost overrun means that it definitely won't produce any value at all.
@bluemoon Everywhere that has tried free public transport sees a 30℅ increase in ridership, but no reduction in car use. The 30% increase comes out of active transport so it's a very expensive upkeep cost to get people walking to take the bus instead.
If money is available to make public transport free then that money would be better spent on things that will result in large increases in ridership and actually reduce car usage by expanding the public transport network and running more frequent services.
You can remove the requirement for drivers to enforce fares without removing the fare as most people will still pay it.
@notgold yeah, it's so easy to see it was bad with hindsight. But it also should have been easy to see at the time with some simple maths.
@notgold The classic second stage of the Car Ponzi scheme. They make a big list of the problems that cars created, ascribe them to population growth and then double down on cars as the solution.
@ajsadauskas @fuck_cars ah, good point.
@ajsadauskas @fuck_cars
I grew up in Collingwood, Melbourne and all of these things were within 20mins walk from my house.
I'm on the other side of Melbourne now (Footscray) and the only thing I'm not walking distance from is 'sports arena'..unless you count horse racing.
@TootSweet @ajsadauskas They'll just completely rewrite it from scratch using a newer LLM and that will be considered normal. In those 5yrs the percentage of developers who remember the idea of code having longevity will be tiny.
@pathief @ProdigalFrog it's just physically not possible to build enough parking for everyone to always have a park. You have trouble finding a park because that's just the physical reality. Adding more parking (like adding more lanes) doesn't increase availability because of induced demand and the inherent inefficiency of cars.
Reducing parking won't reduce the parking available to you. Just as reducing the number of car lanes won't reduce your ability to drive places.
@themeatbridge @sexy_peach Commuter driving has the same 'last mile' problem, but it's parking.
The photo doesn't include the $250 million worth of carparks for those 10,000 cars that has to exist at the other end of the highway.
@blandy @frostbiker
In Victoria (Australia), the fine for using your mobile phone while riding a bicycle is the same as when driving a 2.6 tonne ute.
@JasSmith @cerement @lysol Density is the panacea. Cycling is just what makes it possible. You can't have nice livable density with cars.
@Crazypartypony @glasgitarrewelt But if parking restrictions are enforced and people can't park and thus can't use cars then there will be political will for public transport. Public transport is cheaper to deploy than all the car infrastructure even for small townships.
@DLSchichtl @Iron_Lynx of course there are things that can't be delivered in bicycles and of course this only make sense with enough density.
But density is a goal of urbanism.
The places in the world that currently have success doing bicycle deliveries right now allow night time or off peak van/truck deliveries.
Most deliveries are small packages, especially the deliveries that are time sensitive and so are ideal for cargo bike delivery.
The 2-3 photocopier deliveries a week are done with a van at night.
@ChicoSuave @HiddenLayer5 you've got it the wrong way around. The anti-car/pro public transport/urbanism movement always has the goal of reducing the cost of transport and the cost of housing to make places that are livable for people on lower incomes.
Cars in rural areas aren't a concern because they're places where population density is so low that cars have fewer negative effects.
But rural public transport between townships and major cities can also make getting places quicker, easier and safer.
Building public transport in and to higher density areas doesn't stop you from driving your car in a rural area.
@Yondoza @anewbeginning Parking is a huge tax on everything. Parking minimums means that the government forces every business to build the cost of parking in to all their prices. Every house and apartment has the cost of parking added to it. In the case of a highrise apartment this can be an extra $50K on to the price of the apartment.
Governments could instead force businesses and housing developers to put that money toward public transport.
The forced cost of parking in the USA is more than the entire national debt.
@zoe @frankPodmore Driving licences and traffic lights were invented because car drivers were too dangerous to safely mix with existing road traffic and we needed to restrain them. Bicycles have never been a significant danger to other road traffic. We don't require licences for people to ride bicycles for the same reason we don't require licences for pedestrians, it's a ridiculous idea that would do nothing useful.
@nicklockwood @TDCN @Showroom7561 no, it's just politically impossible to mandate speed limiters. Governments tried 50yrs ago and haven't tried again since. Car manufacturers want people to know they can speed. It's all over their marketing.
@nicklockwood @TDCN @Showroom7561 you're right. Mandatory speed limiters are a much better option. They're cheap, easy and avoid having to fine people.
@TDCN @acs 5 out of 5 pedestrians will survive a collision with a car traveling at 20km/hr, only 4 out of 5 will survive a collision with a car traveling at 40km/h.
This doesn't include the large difference in level of injury.
So by speeding your taking a situation where nobody should die and making it a situation where someone might.
A 20km/h area is an area where there will be lots of people to hit so it's even more important to stick to the speed limit in that situation
@CorruptBuddha I'd say "reckless indifference to human life"