@Hammerjack Great points. I agree it’s like they wrote multiple versions of the film and then couldn’t decide which one they were actually shooting. I liked the main character they set up, was looking forward to the audience learning to root for him, but then I stopped caring what the audience or any of the characters thought at all. The 1987 movie is lovable-fun bad, this is just awful-bad sloppy filmmaking. Biggest facepalm: hotdog cop’s son randomly deciding to fight the invaders…
…when they could easily just escape from the house. As you said, it introduces enough good ideas that this could have been a decent fun film but they were all wasted. Great review, thank you 😃
@JohnnyDelirious@Zoboomafoo One moment Spok is frantically trying to find Chapel on the Kayuga, but then doesn’t even mention survivors when they plan to crash it. It’s too much of a stretch. There must be some key plot here they deliberately didn’t show us. We don’t see the initial attack on the Kayuga at all. Why was the lone Gorn (stuck?) on that side of the line trying to access command codes on a destroyed ship? I think we’ll get a revealing flashback in S03E01.
@williams_482@triktrek (It is mentioned elsewhere that human soldiers in the Eugenics Wars were given drugs to make them better fighters, and human history remembers this as a huge mistake/atrocity).
@williams_482@triktrek Many fans react badly to the P-12 serum as a lazy plot device, but consider: In key battles, it’d make tactical sense for Klingons to draw Fed soldiers into hand to hand combat, because they’re typically experienced blade warriors. It would then be attractive to the Fed to develop something like P-12 as a counter-tactic. Then consider there is a potential sub-plot exploring the ethics of humans revisiting their Eugenics Wars-era mistakes.
@ValueSubtracted This could be the case whether or not Rah started the fight at the end, but after rewatching, it feels like M'Benga's actions were all preparing for that outcome (or preparing to protect himself?) Rah of course also has a motive to kill M'Benga - he's the only person who knows what actually happened with the Klingon commanders on J'Gal.
@ValueSubtracted ...thinking he is the superior fighter, and B) test if he can get a quick, sharp attack past his guard? Was he prepping in case he wanted/needed to kill him?
We don't see the end fight, but we believe from M'Benga looking Pike in the eyes, twice saying "I didn't start the fight" that he didn't.
However, in M'Benga's PTSD-ridden mind, where he never "finished" the mission to kill Rah, maybe he really doesn't think he started it, because Rah "started it" on J'Gal?
When Rah arrives on Enterprise, all the war vets hate him, but did M'Benga's damaged mind actually awaken his military instincts as a defence mechanism, compelling him to "finish" the unfinished mission to kill Rah?
When M'Benga & Rah first spar, M'Benga says he thought about not showing up but changed his mind because "Klingon judo is good exercise". Does he then use the session in a safe environment to A) trick Rah into...
@war@Datas_Cat_Spot actually, what is the word for that? When a species treats a human as less than human (or vice versa)? I was saying the other day that in Chain of Command, the Cardassian captor “dehumanises” Picard, but that’s not right, is it? I mean, that’s what humans would call it, but what would be a cross-species term for it?
@startrekexplained@keeb420 I forced my way through PIC S1 last year but abandoned it when I discovered SNW. I cannot with chaotic plot arcs threaded everywhere and shoehorned cliffhangers that turn out to be insignificant. TNG/SNW tell a complete story per-episode with some wider arcs holding seasons together. That works and is the only trek I can enjoy. The PIC/DISC format invites lazy writing and breaks suspension of disbelief, which is needed to appreciate trek.
@snowyday@AdmiralShat I struggled to get properly into any post-TNG Trek and I am completely hooked on Strange New Worlds. Like TNG, there’s a whole complete story in every episode, with some over-arching threads. Try S1E1 - if you at all like that, you’re going to love the whole thing. There are a few weird/difficult episodes (as TNG had) but the stand-out episodes are so good they easily carry the whole show. The final episode of season 1, in particular, is superb.
@psychothumbs@khaosworks That *was* interesting. His instincts work overpowering Zac in the phaser battle but then we don’t actually know if he’ll “remember” he can’t just beat him senseless afterwards. Maybe we’ll see some Pike backstory at some point that shows him learning ethical lessons when he’s younger.
@ValueSubtracted second best episode of S2 so far, after Ad Astra Per Aspera. The type of setup has already been done many times but there are enough new ideas to keep it interesting. The old man is a great single-episode character.
@Tired8281@crazycanadianloon yeh that’s my interpretation. For a moment it looks like Pike has not recovered enough to remember he shouldn’t kill someone when he has the upper hand. Zac suddenly changes demeanor when he realises Pike might not show any mercy.
@briongloid@Speckle Great list. Chain of Command is my favorite two-parter also. Patrick Stewart’s performance as Picard deteriorating under torture, but refusing to give in, and still mentally deconstructing his captor is immense. Also we learn a lot about the Cardassians’ militaristic regime, and how much they’ve “dehumanized” their enemies.
@Nmyownworld@SeeJayEmm@startrek I mean, if you’re OK with ship sensors that can analyze space in tiny detail, it’s reasonable that transporter tech makes sure the target area is safe/unobstructed, and safety protocols prevent transport if there’s risk. We often see a human operator scanning for good transport locations too.
There’s obvious issues with the concept of course, but Star Trek is the type of scifi that you can trust with your suspension of disbelief, and you’ll usually be rewarded.
@Hammerjack Great points. I agree it’s like they wrote multiple versions of the film and then couldn’t decide which one they were actually shooting. I liked the main character they set up, was looking forward to the audience learning to root for him, but then I stopped caring what the audience or any of the characters thought at all. The 1987 movie is lovable-fun bad, this is just awful-bad sloppy filmmaking. Biggest facepalm: hotdog cop’s son randomly deciding to fight the invaders…
…when they could easily just escape from the house. As you said, it introduces enough good ideas that this could have been a decent fun film but they were all wasted. Great review, thank you 😃
@JohnnyDelirious @Zoboomafoo One moment Spok is frantically trying to find Chapel on the Kayuga, but then doesn’t even mention survivors when they plan to crash it. It’s too much of a stretch. There must be some key plot here they deliberately didn’t show us. We don’t see the initial attack on the Kayuga at all. Why was the lone Gorn (stuck?) on that side of the line trying to access command codes on a destroyed ship? I think we’ll get a revealing flashback in S03E01.
@williams_482 @triktrek (It is mentioned elsewhere that human soldiers in the Eugenics Wars were given drugs to make them better fighters, and human history remembers this as a huge mistake/atrocity).
@williams_482 @triktrek Many fans react badly to the P-12 serum as a lazy plot device, but consider: In key battles, it’d make tactical sense for Klingons to draw Fed soldiers into hand to hand combat, because they’re typically experienced blade warriors. It would then be attractive to the Fed to develop something like P-12 as a counter-tactic. Then consider there is a potential sub-plot exploring the ethics of humans revisiting their Eugenics Wars-era mistakes.
@ValueSubtracted This could be the case whether or not Rah started the fight at the end, but after rewatching, it feels like M'Benga's actions were all preparing for that outcome (or preparing to protect himself?) Rah of course also has a motive to kill M'Benga - he's the only person who knows what actually happened with the Klingon commanders on J'Gal.
@ValueSubtracted ...thinking he is the superior fighter, and B) test if he can get a quick, sharp attack past his guard? Was he prepping in case he wanted/needed to kill him?
We don't see the end fight, but we believe from M'Benga looking Pike in the eyes, twice saying "I didn't start the fight" that he didn't.
However, in M'Benga's PTSD-ridden mind, where he never "finished" the mission to kill Rah, maybe he really doesn't think he started it, because Rah "started it" on J'Gal?
@ValueSubtracted
Did anyone else wonder (spoiler warning):
When Rah arrives on Enterprise, all the war vets hate him, but did M'Benga's damaged mind actually awaken his military instincts as a defence mechanism, compelling him to "finish" the unfinished mission to kill Rah?
When M'Benga & Rah first spar, M'Benga says he thought about not showing up but changed his mind because "Klingon judo is good exercise". Does he then use the session in a safe environment to A) trick Rah into...
@war @Datas_Cat_Spot actually, what is the word for that? When a species treats a human as less than human (or vice versa)? I was saying the other day that in Chain of Command, the Cardassian captor “dehumanises” Picard, but that’s not right, is it? I mean, that’s what humans would call it, but what would be a cross-species term for it?
@startrekexplained @keeb420 I forced my way through PIC S1 last year but abandoned it when I discovered SNW. I cannot with chaotic plot arcs threaded everywhere and shoehorned cliffhangers that turn out to be insignificant. TNG/SNW tell a complete story per-episode with some wider arcs holding seasons together. That works and is the only trek I can enjoy. The PIC/DISC format invites lazy writing and breaks suspension of disbelief, which is needed to appreciate trek.
@snowyday @AdmiralShat I struggled to get properly into any post-TNG Trek and I am completely hooked on Strange New Worlds. Like TNG, there’s a whole complete story in every episode, with some over-arching threads. Try S1E1 - if you at all like that, you’re going to love the whole thing. There are a few weird/difficult episodes (as TNG had) but the stand-out episodes are so good they easily carry the whole show. The final episode of season 1, in particular, is superb.
@psychothumbs @khaosworks That *was* interesting. His instincts work overpowering Zac in the phaser battle but then we don’t actually know if he’ll “remember” he can’t just beat him senseless afterwards. Maybe we’ll see some Pike backstory at some point that shows him learning ethical lessons when he’s younger.
@ValueSubtracted second best episode of S2 so far, after Ad Astra Per Aspera. The type of setup has already been done many times but there are enough new ideas to keep it interesting. The old man is a great single-episode character.
@Tired8281 @crazycanadianloon yeh that’s my interpretation. For a moment it looks like Pike has not recovered enough to remember he shouldn’t kill someone when he has the upper hand. Zac suddenly changes demeanor when he realises Pike might not show any mercy.
@briongloid @Speckle Great list. Chain of Command is my favorite two-parter also. Patrick Stewart’s performance as Picard deteriorating under torture, but refusing to give in, and still mentally deconstructing his captor is immense. Also we learn a lot about the Cardassians’ militaristic regime, and how much they’ve “dehumanized” their enemies.
@Nmyownworld @SeeJayEmm @startrek I mean, if you’re OK with ship sensors that can analyze space in tiny detail, it’s reasonable that transporter tech makes sure the target area is safe/unobstructed, and safety protocols prevent transport if there’s risk. We often see a human operator scanning for good transport locations too.
There’s obvious issues with the concept of course, but Star Trek is the type of scifi that you can trust with your suspension of disbelief, and you’ll usually be rewarded.