Trump will copy Reagan and fire them all; sending in military ATCs actually helps them normalize the domestic use of the military.
Then it will go to shit and planes will start falling out of the sky, because things are a whole lot more complex than they were in Reagan's time, and it barely worked then.
I don't think Reagan's strategy of firing them all and hiring a new bunch of air traffic really works in this day and age because the job is significantly harder than it used to be and the pool of people who can and want to do it is not much larger than the existing pool of air traffic controllers.
DuckDuckGo search assist (don't have time to confirm accuracy) tells me there were 5,000 flights in the air at any given time over the US in 1989, and there's are 10,000 at any given time over the US today.
I feel like an entire 1989s worth of planes is a lot, a quick search shows there were 11,000 controllers in 1981 and only 9,500 today, so double the planes for less controllers. Apparently the methods used for control have not changed much since the Reagan era as well.
There are many government functions that have to continue no matter. I think it’s only about 50% of the workforce on furlough but none are getting paid. A law passed in 2019 says we’ll all get back paid when funds are available, so technically the people working are getting paid.
Here's a better idea than blocking ploiticians pay durring a shutdown (bacause that can be used to strong arm poorer politicians). If the government ever shuts down, funding continues as it was and we immediately hold elections for both the senate and house with all current members being barred from ever holding office again.
there's literally no government, why pretend there is.
i didn't mean that we shouldn't pay politicians during a shutdown. just that it is bullshit that they can vote to not pay all the federal staff while they still get paid and demanding them to work while they do fuck all.
And what is he going to do? Fire them? They're going to get fired eventually anyway. Especially if they're a woman or minority. Protests are about all we have left before violence is the only option. Let's do anything we can to keep non-violence the best option!
Can everyone just quit, and require that to be hired back their demands are met? Or is their pension system scummy in that pension only counts based on continuous employment?
From an admittedly ignorant perspective, I don't understand strikes; I don't understand why collectivized workers don't group quit instead of staying home and submitting demands through a rep. It's like how companies mass fire, and then offer jobs back at lower pay. Uno reverse. Fascist laws easily target employees on strike like we saw with Reagan, but it would be extremely difficult to enact laws targeting people who don't even work for some company any more. And the reps can be bought out to take an offer on behalf of members anyway.
if the strikers had backbone (and proper support from the community) yes. hiring everyone back on and preventing retribution is the first or second demand from any halfway decent labor strike.
this is what the NALC did back in the 70's...but they're a shadow of their former selves ever since betraying their brothers in 2008
Sometimes strikes have better worker protections than mass quitting.
Also, usually besides "not doing the work", strikes usually involve engaging in some practices (e.g. picket lines) to prevent or inhibit anyone else from "doing the work". That's not true of mass quitting.
I've never been in a position where I could earn a pension. But, vestment of employer contributions to my 401k used to be contingent on years of continuous employment. Quitting and being rehired would have resulted in losing all funds that hadn't yet vested.
But, yes, mass quitting is an option, particularly when legal and union protections are little or non-existent.
They won't freak out, they feel like they know exactly what to do - exactly what Reagan did. Just fire them all. That worked out great, it's not like we are still suffering from that terrible decision 40 years later.
46 Comments
Revan343@lemmy.ca · 86 pts · 320d
Trump will copy Reagan and fire them all; sending in military ATCs actually helps them normalize the domestic use of the military.
Then it will go to shit and planes will start falling out of the sky, because things are a whole lot more complex than they were in Reagan's time, and it barely worked then.
shalafi@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 320d
Bloom County covered it.
burgermeister@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 320d
BC reference, hell yeah
shalafi@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 320d
Ran from 1980-1989, perfect snapshot of the decade.
burgermeister@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 320d
Don't forget the new ones!
shalafi@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 320d
Wasn't a big fan of the follow up. Are there truly new comics?
EDIT: Damn! Anywhere to see all these without paging through FB?!
burgermeister@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 320d
He put out books of the new ones too
Tm12@lemmy.ca · 72 pts · 320d
I don’t think they can legally thanks to Reagan.
Edit: Not saying they won’t. I think they should walkout.
Lodespawn@aussie.zone · 72 pts · 320d
I don't think Reagan's strategy of firing them all and hiring a new bunch of air traffic really works in this day and age because the job is significantly harder than it used to be and the pool of people who can and want to do it is not much larger than the existing pool of air traffic controllers.
driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br · 9 pts · 320d
How much traffic are now compared to that day?
Lodespawn@aussie.zone · 18 pts · 320d
DuckDuckGo search assist (don't have time to confirm accuracy) tells me there were 5,000 flights in the air at any given time over the US in 1989, and there's are 10,000 at any given time over the US today.
driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br · 8 pts · 320d
I was expecting a lot more grew.
Lodespawn@aussie.zone · 18 pts · 320d
I feel like an entire 1989s worth of planes is a lot, a quick search shows there were 11,000 controllers in 1981 and only 9,500 today, so double the planes for less controllers. Apparently the methods used for control have not changed much since the Reagan era as well.
MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net · 8 pts · 320d
They still use little placards on a tray to organize flights. It's bonkers.
ryannathans@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 320d
Systems are outdated AF, probably haven't changed much
Frozengyro@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 320d
I'd guess there are larger planes than they had then too
Lodespawn@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 320d
Larger and maybe faster
driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br · 7 pts · 320d
Perhaps harder and stronger
Lodespawn@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 320d
Soo 3dB?
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 320d
Yeah Reagan had a large pool of fresh Vietnam vets to pull from as scabs.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 320d
how tf is it even legal to demand workers to work for free?
the US doing wage theft in the open.
philophilsaurus@sh.itjust.works · 23 pts · 320d
🔫 Always has been
Eat_Your_Paisley@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 320d
I’ve worked every shutdown except this one, you acknowledge that you will have to work in the absence of funds before you start.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 320d
that's insane.
imagine telling a contractor that they might it might not get paid but they still have to work.
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 320d
That is the situation with ANY contractor doing work for Trump.
Eat_Your_Paisley@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 320d
There are many government functions that have to continue no matter. I think it’s only about 50% of the workforce on furlough but none are getting paid. A law passed in 2019 says we’ll all get back paid when funds are available, so technically the people working are getting paid.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 320d
that's bullshit. if it's vital, then make laws that ensure payment, not laws that force work for a potential future payment.
tells you what politicians really care about. because lawmakers are getting paid during the shutdown.
Canonical_Warlock@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 320d
Here's a better idea than blocking ploiticians pay durring a shutdown (bacause that can be used to strong arm poorer politicians). If the government ever shuts down, funding continues as it was and we immediately hold elections for both the senate and house with all current members being barred from ever holding office again.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 320d
yes.
the government failed, elections.
there's literally no government, why pretend there is.
i didn't mean that we shouldn't pay politicians during a shutdown. just that it is bullshit that they can vote to not pay all the federal staff while they still get paid and demanding them to work while they do fuck all.
phdepressed@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 320d
Some Dems at least made a show of trying to pass a law so they wouldn't get paid during shutdowns. Unsurprisingly Rs voted it down.
SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social · 4 pts · 320d
This would be a good first step. And then lock them up inside the building until they found a common ground. Make it like the papal conclave.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 320d
You're asking that of a country that was literally built on slave labor?
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 320d
yhea, not surprising
ImWaitingForRetcons@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 320d
Legality matters little when you’re starving and hopeless
AreaKode@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 320d
And what is he going to do? Fire them? They're going to get fired eventually anyway. Especially if they're a woman or minority. Protests are about all we have left before violence is the only option. Let's do anything we can to keep non-violence the best option!
shalafi@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 320d
You must have missed the 1980s. :) We've already seen this play out.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 320d
Reagan had an entire swath of Vietnam vets trained in directing aircraft to pull from. Don't have nearly the same numbers today.
And they're also not paying the troops at the same time... Tough to get people to scab if they're not getting paid either
slazer2au@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 320d
Would you show up to work knowing you will not get paid?
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 320d
If they don't, they lose their pension. Right now it's an investment in ever retiring.
count_dongulus@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 320d
Can everyone just quit, and require that to be hired back their demands are met? Or is their pension system scummy in that pension only counts based on continuous employment?
From an admittedly ignorant perspective, I don't understand strikes; I don't understand why collectivized workers don't group quit instead of staying home and submitting demands through a rep. It's like how companies mass fire, and then offer jobs back at lower pay. Uno reverse. Fascist laws easily target employees on strike like we saw with Reagan, but it would be extremely difficult to enact laws targeting people who don't even work for some company any more. And the reps can be bought out to take an offer on behalf of members anyway.
IronBird@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 320d
if the strikers had backbone (and proper support from the community) yes. hiring everyone back on and preventing retribution is the first or second demand from any halfway decent labor strike.
this is what the NALC did back in the 70's...but they're a shadow of their former selves ever since betraying their brothers in 2008
bss03@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 320d
Sometimes strikes have better worker protections than mass quitting.
Also, usually besides "not doing the work", strikes usually involve engaging in some practices (e.g. picket lines) to prevent or inhibit anyone else from "doing the work". That's not true of mass quitting.
I've never been in a position where I could earn a pension. But, vestment of employer contributions to my 401k used to be contingent on years of continuous employment. Quitting and being rehired would have resulted in losing all funds that hadn't yet vested.
But, yes, mass quitting is an option, particularly when legal and union protections are little or non-existent.
PeacefulForest@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 320d
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 14 pts · 320d
They won't freak out, they feel like they know exactly what to do - exactly what Reagan did. Just fire them all. That worked out great, it's not like we are still suffering from that terrible decision 40 years later.
ayyy@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 320d
It’s not a strike if they’re not getting paid, it’s a slave rebellion.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 320d
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Wolf314159@startrek.website · 1 pts · 320d
AnnaFrankfurter@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 320d
I think trump might be one step ahead of Regan in this case