Yeah there are some, Jolla is another, but I already know I will lose all my banking and payment apps and will end up still having to use an android in addition.
First inpressions matter. The thing most people want operating systems to do is get out of the way. And while using Linux is great (so long as your software supports it), setting it up is not seamless. If you want to install Linux, new users have to spend 8 hours surfing 20 boards to be told 30 different answers about which distro to use. And that's before you even get started.
If you want to install Windows, you just fucking install Windows.
Usually people who installed it yesterday and are mad it doesn’t behave exactly like the OS they’ve been using for the last 20 years (which they also had to learn how to use)
TBF it does have a glaring lack of automation for way too much of the basics. Even hand holding distros like Mint will have you using the terminal for something windows just does with a double click.
FTR I prefer Linux over Windows but I still lose it every time installation instructions for some app have 4 pages of commands for the CLI instead of just running an installer that automates the BS.
Every piece of software that doesn't come with the default repositories, which in many distros includes the 'niche' software of vidcard drivers. Samba network sharing v1, disabled in both Windows and Linux, is a simple double click of the app feature to reenable in Windows. In Linux, you have to change entries in at least 2 files, assuming you can find correct instructions in the first place.
I mean you have to find those check boxes in Windows too.
I do think some things in Linux are still not super user friendly, but for example installing apps is much better. Sure something may not be in the repo, even if some distros have impressively vast ones, but even that is easily solved with flatpak and appimage nowadays.
Samba v1 has been disabled by default for years in Windows, because of security concerns. If m$ is even warning against using it, you probably shouldn't use it.
Enabling something that's deprecated as fuck is not a very good example.
Hey, you know what is a good example? Every app not included in the default app repository. But, you conveniently skipped that to make a useless point. GG.
Typical Linux distributions are almost objectively harder to use than Android. I'd be surprised if anyone really disagrees with this. When someone complains about Linux being hard to use, it's the POSIX-based Linux distributions that must support arbitrary hardware (often poorly so) that they refer to. I don't need to care about installing NVidia drivers and whether they're compatible with EFI handover when I buy an Android phone.
You do need to worry about whether or not your phone is locked to a specific carrier and if its the carrier you want to use the phone with. or, if its a phone you want to bring to another network, you have to figure our if you need to argue with your current carrier to get it unlocked.
To piggyback off this, Windows is also "harder" than Android. You need to reinstall Windows due to an update fuckup? You tried building your own PC? Well, you either fork.over $120 for an installation media, or you have to create your own, then learn how to boot into the BIOS to boot from that media, then you need to scour the internet for not only your Nvidia driver, but your audio driver, WiFi driver, integrated graphics driver (if you have and want to use an IGPU) and possibly motherboard drivers if your mobo has some odd implementation that requires a driver for USB 3.1 to work properly.
None of these operating systems are "harder" than another. You are just used to one over the other. You don't use your automatic transmission car skills trying to drive a manual transmission, unless your goal is to crash and burn.
massgrave proves my point. The user has to go out of their way to find and run that script.
Linux would just work ootb. No activation needed. Ergo; Linux is easier than Windows.
It's poor form to say an apple tastes worse than an orange because its purely opinion. Theres no fact. I was trying to show the original reply is nonsensical, because for some, Android is harder than Linux. Android may not be what someone is used to.
It's responding to "you say Linux is bad". If you pretend the funny cat picture is someone talking, and my comment is someone talking back, it makes sense.
I wouldn't say it's bad per se, but getting worse. If they go through with their app developer verification thing then it will definitively cross the threshold from "thin fucking ice" to shit
OSX is UNIX, built on BSD foundations but not BSD.
Android on the other hand IS Linux, and is distributed. So I say, it's a Linux distribution.
All other things that people mention as qualifying for a Linux distro are either GNU libs (which alpine doesn't have) or POSIX/UNIX way of doing things, which would disqualify Android from being POSIX compliant but not from being a Linux distro.
I would assume because windows you can work your way through things and disable all the bad stuff. Android on the other hand is becoming more restrictive every year and you can do much about it
I mean, it doesn't magically appear on the device. You pay for the installation, it's just included in the price of the device (with Windows you also pay for the license key, by the way). There are companies that'll install Linux for you. Hell, pay me $30 and cover shipping, I'll gladly set you up with, I don't know, Fedora and even add a timer with notifications that'll nag you about package updates, just like Android does.
I don't think nowadays windows is subsidized. Sure, some manufacturers may recoup part of, or all the cost by pre installing crap ware, but those that allow choosing your OS usually give you a discount for removing Windows.
Outside of specialized B2B software, I never met a tech rep that would be helpful with an issue. Do you actually have experience where you'd call Google/Apple/Microslop and get help with their software? In Linux world, with many programs I can just go and nag the actual developer of the thing, which often works wonders.
I had a driver issue with my laptop which was causing the microphone to not work, not only was it fixed under warranty, but they sent a tech to where I was studying to fix it, rather than having to drop it off.
Did phone manufacturer finally decide to keep supporting their models after the first year/couple of years? Or did the "likely lifetime" of a smartphone dropped below that in the meantime?
If anything, my experience with "manufacturer support" on android isn't particularly stellar, with the only outlier being my current Samsung XCover, which is kinda cheating due to the thing being a rugged phone targeting companies and not the average joe, so the thing is built to last, both hardware and software side.
On the other hand you do have a couple (maybe even three!) companies that offer linux pre-installed on their machines.
80 Comments
Auster@thebrainbin.org · 132 pts · 141d
says linux is bad but uses the world-wide web 🤭
ramasses@social.ozymandias.club · 62 pts · 141d
says linux is bad but uses a microwave
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 141d
Says Linux is bad but uses toaster.
lessthanluigi@lemmy.sdf.org · 16 pts · 141d
Says Linux is bad but uses a toaster without a license
webghost0101@sopuli.xyz · 52 pts · 141d
“Linux is superior, i am in full control and free to use my device however”
Damage@feddit.it · 7 pts · 140d
I've never owned an iPhone, but it's not like Android is the land of freedom
TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 140d
It's not like there are actual Linux alternatives on the phone market
Jyek@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 140d
PostmarketOS is an Alpine distro packaged as a mobile OS. Full phat Linux on a smart phone.
TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 139d
Yeah there are some, Jolla is another, but I already know I will lose all my banking and payment apps and will end up still having to use an android in addition.
Jyek@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 139d
Might be able to sandbox those in android VMs. I can run my banking app in WSL surprisingly. It's useless there but it does run.
fahfahfahfah@lemmy.billiam.net · 1 pts · 136d
I have an iPhone because I don’t want full control. When I had android phones I would fuck with them until their death.
coolfission@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 139d
I have iPhone and I VNC/RDP into my linux server at home when I want to do anything productive
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works · 35 pts · 141d
Who says linux is bad? At worst people say it's too hard for them to use at home, but i never heard someone say it's bad.
fahfahfahfah@lemmy.billiam.net · 43 pts · 141d
I’ve heard people make the argument that Linux is bad because it’s too hard to use.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 139d
First inpressions matter. The thing most people want operating systems to do is get out of the way. And while using Linux is great (so long as your software supports it), setting it up is not seamless. If you want to install Linux, new users have to spend 8 hours surfing 20 boards to be told 30 different answers about which distro to use. And that's before you even get started.
If you want to install Windows, you just fucking install Windows.
FenrirIII@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 137d
It's bad to recommend to less tech-literate people. It's bad to force on someone in general.
fahfahfahfah@lemmy.billiam.net · 1 pts · 136d
Who is forcing Linux on anyone?
FenrirIII@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 136d
I've had an IT guy try to make me use Linux. I tried and failed, so he put Windows back on. I felt shame.
Pricklesthemagicfish@reddthat.com · -31 pts · 141d
Doubt these retards just need a web browser and itunes oh wait I see.
funkajunk@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 141d
Usually people who installed it yesterday and are mad it doesn’t behave exactly like the OS they’ve been using for the last 20 years (which they also had to learn how to use)
Encephalotrocity@feddit.online · 1 pts · 141d
TBF it does have a glaring lack of automation for way too much of the basics. Even hand holding distros like Mint will have you using the terminal for something windows just does with a double click.
FTR I prefer Linux over Windows but I still lose it every time installation instructions for some app have 4 pages of commands for the CLI instead of just running an installer that automates the BS.
funkajunk@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 140d
Maybe 10 years ago, but for me installing anything is done with a single command (pacman or yay)
Are you using some sort of niche software?
Encephalotrocity@feddit.online · 1 pts · 140d
Every piece of software that doesn't come with the default repositories, which in many distros includes the 'niche' software of vidcard drivers. Samba network sharing v1, disabled in both Windows and Linux, is a simple double click of the app feature to reenable in Windows. In Linux, you have to change entries in at least 2 files, assuming you can find correct instructions in the first place.
Damage@feddit.it · 3 pts · 140d
I mean you have to find those check boxes in Windows too.
I do think some things in Linux are still not super user friendly, but for example installing apps is much better. Sure something may not be in the repo, even if some distros have impressively vast ones, but even that is easily solved with flatpak and appimage nowadays.
funkajunk@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 140d
Samba v1 has been disabled by default for years in Windows, because of security concerns. If m$ is even warning against using it, you probably shouldn't use it.
Enabling something that's deprecated as fuck is not a very good example.
Encephalotrocity@feddit.online · -2 pts · 140d
Hey, you know what is a good example? Every app not included in the default app repository. But, you conveniently skipped that to make a useless point. GG.
tias@discuss.tchncs.de · 13 pts · 141d
Typical Linux distributions are almost objectively harder to use than Android. I'd be surprised if anyone really disagrees with this. When someone complains about Linux being hard to use, it's the POSIX-based Linux distributions that must support arbitrary hardware (often poorly so) that they refer to. I don't need to care about installing NVidia drivers and whether they're compatible with EFI handover when I buy an Android phone.
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · 14 pts · 141d
So are Windows and macOS.
tias@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 141d
Sorry I don't follow your point.
Damage@feddit.it · 3 pts · 140d
I think they meant that the comparison should be between desktop OSes.
The fact that the meme mentions desktop and phone OSes is probably because one is likely to use both.
Turret3857@infosec.pub · 10 pts · 141d
You do need to worry about whether or not your phone is locked to a specific carrier and if its the carrier you want to use the phone with. or, if its a phone you want to bring to another network, you have to figure our if you need to argue with your current carrier to get it unlocked.
To piggyback off this, Windows is also "harder" than Android. You need to reinstall Windows due to an update fuckup? You tried building your own PC? Well, you either fork.over $120 for an installation media, or you have to create your own, then learn how to boot into the BIOS to boot from that media, then you need to scour the internet for not only your Nvidia driver, but your audio driver, WiFi driver, integrated graphics driver (if you have and want to use an IGPU) and possibly motherboard drivers if your mobo has some odd implementation that requires a driver for USB 3.1 to work properly.
None of these operating systems are "harder" than another. You are just used to one over the other. You don't use your automatic transmission car skills trying to drive a manual transmission, unless your goal is to crash and burn.
Encephalotrocity@feddit.online · 5 pts · 141d
Laughs in Canadian
Turret3857@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 140d
please let me in I beg of thee
ramasses@social.ozymandias.club · 2 pts · 140d
Cries in us, its horrible
variablenine@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 141d
Mass🪦
Turret3857@infosec.pub · 3 pts · 140d
massgrave proves my point. The user has to go out of their way to find and run that script.
Linux would just work ootb. No activation needed. Ergo; Linux is easier than Windows.
It's poor form to say an apple tastes worse than an orange because its purely opinion. Theres no fact. I was trying to show the original reply is nonsensical, because for some, Android is harder than Linux. Android may not be what someone is used to.
agent_nycto@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 141d
It's not that Linux is bad, it's the fans of it that are annoying
firelizzard@programming.dev · 2 pts · 141d
Ok. How is that relevant to the post or the comment?
agent_nycto@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 140d
It's responding to "you say Linux is bad". If you pretend the funny cat picture is someone talking, and my comment is someone talking back, it makes sense.
Wiz@midwest.social · 3 pts · 141d
Apparently, non-cats.
calango@programming.dev · -1 pts · 141d
It's a meme, you just got on the internet yesterday, huh?
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 140d
So it's just not true at all, got it lol
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip · 32 pts · 141d
Android is hardly linux and is also bad.
variablenine@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 15 pts · 141d
I wouldn't say it's bad per se, but getting worse. If they go through with their app developer verification thing then it will definitively cross the threshold from "thin fucking ice" to shit
Damage@feddit.it · 3 pts · 140d
Android is frustrating with the way it limits you from doing what you want within the os.
wer2@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 140d
But Android is a Linux... Not GNU/Linux, but neither is Alpine.
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip · 14 pts · 140d
And OSX is a BSD but nobody i ntheir right mind would consider it a BSD distro.
blujan@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 140d
OSX is UNIX, built on BSD foundations but not BSD.
Android on the other hand IS Linux, and is distributed. So I say, it's a Linux distribution.
All other things that people mention as qualifying for a Linux distro are either GNU libs (which alpine doesn't have) or POSIX/UNIX way of doing things, which would disqualify Android from being POSIX compliant but not from being a Linux distro.
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip · 4 pts · 140d
I'm gonna be real here I don't care.
blujan@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 140d
Understandable, have a good day!
pewpew@feddit.it · 28 pts · 140d
Android has to be the worst version of Linux there is
SomethingBurger@jlai.lu · 8 pts · 140d
It's so fucking bad. It's actually worse than Windows.
Agent641@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 139d
How come?
DeepSeaString@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 139d
I would assume because windows you can work your way through things and disable all the bad stuff. Android on the other hand is becoming more restrictive every year and you can do much about it
blinfabian@feddit.nl · 21 pts · 141d
linux sucks because i was promsed a cute penguin but instead got some blue triangle????
Zozano@aussie.zone · 44 pts · 141d
You got a blue triangle?
I got a blue butthole
Brickhead92@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 141d
No one wants a frozen butthole
SatyrSack@quokk.au · 10 pts · 141d
Speak for yourself
Venator@lemmy.nz · 1 pts · 140d
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Pi1fljNyY
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 140d
Man I have to settle for a purple thing with a hole in it, I don't even know what it is
ulterno@programming.dev · 12 pts · 141d
"Linux is bad", because it doesn't provide have data collection and transfer to shady corporations with large PR umbrellas, out of the box.
Damage@feddit.it · 3 pts · 140d
Luckily there are solutions for everything in Linux
ulterno@programming.dev · 0 pts · 140d
Now just need to add this as a Kernel module and ship the binary as the default for a distro.
Damage@feddit.it · 1 pts · 140d
Microsoft Linux 11
kamen@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 140d
Says won't use anything made by Linus Torvalds. Uses Git.
TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 139d
Linux is BAD - Best Android Dependency.
anitarobs@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 139d
I like the meaning of BAD, Best Android Dependency. 🥰 That's awesome 😎
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 141d
Android comes pre-installed on my device, with automatic security updates and manufacturer support for the likely lifetime of the device.
I'd definitely use a Linux PC if it came out of the box ready to go like that.
TwilightKiddy@programming.dev · 7 pts · 141d
I mean, it doesn't magically appear on the device. You pay for the installation, it's just included in the price of the device (with Windows you also pay for the license key, by the way). There are companies that'll install Linux for you. Hell, pay me $30 and cover shipping, I'll gladly set you up with, I don't know, Fedora and even add a timer with notifications that'll nag you about package updates, just like Android does.
SatyrSack@quokk.au · 3 pts · 141d
Your computer's price is often subsidized by the fact that the manufacturer has an agreement with Microslop to preinstall Windows on it.
TwilightKiddy@programming.dev · 1 pts · 141d
Excuse me, they do what now? Do you have a source on this? Because I know of this little article, but that was quite a long time ago.
Damage@feddit.it · 2 pts · 140d
I don't think nowadays windows is subsidized. Sure, some manufacturers may recoup part of, or all the cost by pre installing crap ware, but those that allow choosing your OS usually give you a discount for removing Windows.
save_the_humans@leminal.space · 1 pts · 139d
I was looking at a thinkpad some months ago on their website and selecting Ubuntu from their options took off $160.
MrsVeggies@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 140d
Who is the goverment paying to install Windows?
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 140d
It used to be Norton antivirus or whoever that would pay have their shit software preinstalled.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 140d
Yeah, I know that, the manufacturer has already installed the OS etc.
What I want is a warranty and guaranteed manufacturer support, rather than me needing to figure out how to fix it.
TwilightKiddy@programming.dev · 3 pts · 140d
Outside of specialized B2B software, I never met a tech rep that would be helpful with an issue. Do you actually have experience where you'd call Google/Apple/Microslop and get help with their software? In Linux world, with many programs I can just go and nag the actual developer of the thing, which often works wonders.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 140d
I had a driver issue with my laptop which was causing the microphone to not work, not only was it fixed under warranty, but they sent a tech to where I was studying to fix it, rather than having to drop it off.
luluberlue@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 140d
Did phone manufacturer finally decide to keep supporting their models after the first year/couple of years? Or did the "likely lifetime" of a smartphone dropped below that in the meantime?
If anything, my experience with "manufacturer support" on android isn't particularly stellar, with the only outlier being my current Samsung XCover, which is kinda cheating due to the thing being a rugged phone targeting companies and not the average joe, so the thing is built to last, both hardware and software side.
On the other hand you do have a couple (maybe even three!) companies that offer linux pre-installed on their machines.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 139d
I'm pretty rough on phones, so they tend to only last a few years for me.
I've had my current one for three or four years, and I think that's a record.