Is there any difference between the opposition and Orban? There is a reason specifically Hungary has been the leader of oligarchic, "illiberal democracy" in Europe.
I will admit I am rather biased, I will always consider Hungarians as our enemies (you don't get to support a russian genocidal invasion for 10+ years, without people making up their minds about you).
Yes there is. When the full scale invasion happened, Hungarians spontaneously organised themselves to help refugees. People just got in their cars, bought as much aid as they could carry, and drove to the border, taking families on the way back to Budapest.
The reason "illiberal democracy" thrived is that the previous Russian stooge party in Hungary fucked up so hard that protest votes gave Orbán who was campaigning on a liberal message enough votes for total state capture.
And I aware that not everyone in Hungary supports Orban, but the fact remains that Hungary has been one of the biggest supporters of russia in Europe (and it's genocidal imperialist goals in Ukraine and not only) over the past ~15 years. One can't just deny this fact.
I'm just saying that it's more complicated. Germany reelected the very same Merkel multiple times, who in exchange for the complete dismantling of Hungarian worker's rights for German Big Auto factories in Hungary, made sure that Orbán can keep stealing EU money to build the biggest propaganda machine of the continent.
And now, when VW is "having to" close factories, it's somehow not these, but the unionised German ones.
Orbán couldn't have done this alone. He would have been ousted much sooner if not for the EU money.
That fossil was a mistake in so many ways, and that she kept getting reelected by boomers is one grudge I still hold against my parents. It said Christian on the tin, so they (and too many other people too lazy to actually engage with their policies) bought it hook, line and toxic fucking sinker.
I'm just saying that she retired, and somehow Orbán is losing just after his next cycle. He might have even lost the previous election if not for the Russian invasion.
He is Merkel's guy, and is now going all in on Putin instead.
Is there any difference between the opposition and Orban?
I believe the opposition is more Corporate Shitheel and less Religious Reactionary. Consequently, the corporatists tend to go where the money is (Germany, UK, America) and are less invested in the endless white nationalist jerk-off bullshit.
I will always consider Hungarians as our enemies (you don’t get to support a russian genocidal invasion for 10+ years, without people making up their minds about you).
Most people in these countries have no material control over their government. Folks in Lithuania and Estonia aren't governed by their better angles simply because their bureaucrats are aligned with NATO. Hell, Putin himself was eager to align with NATO back when he and the EU were on a post-9/11 anti-Muslim crusade.
And I don't think it is a coincidence that countries closer to the Middle East have developed a more fascistic domestic political scene. Hungary's politics is a consequence of the enormous exodus of Iraqis, Libyans, Syrians, Palestinians, and Turks.
Who caused this continent-wide mass migration? Whatever you might say of Victor Orban (and the man is an absolute POS on par with Milosevic or Michaloliakos), he's not the but-for cause of a historic flight from the Persian Gulf region.
And it is very much possible for the overwhelming majority of a given society to support chauvinism and genocidal imperialism. While I am not very knowledgeable on social research in Hungary, but this is patently clear with respect to russian society (note that there is a broad set of research that adjusts for preference falsification, so the usual "they are all afraid" excuses doesn't work).
I would be happy for Hungary to take a different path, I don't believe it will happen, with or without Orban. Just my opinion, albeit shaped by factual developments with respect to Hungary's committed support for russian genocidal imperialism over the past ~15 years (including before the migration issues of 2015).
19 Comments
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online · 49 pts · 165d
Hate Orban. Didn't he hold a pro-trump parade a while back?
HK65@sopuli.xyz · 18 pts · 165d
He hosted CPAC
SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social · 8 pts · 165d
They're speech-wanking each other.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 163d
Hell, I hate him on his own merits. Fucking far right nationalist
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 10 pts · 164d
the russian puppet says what?
Skiluros@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 165d
Is there any difference between the opposition and Orban? There is a reason specifically Hungary has been the leader of oligarchic, "illiberal democracy" in Europe.
I will admit I am rather biased, I will always consider Hungarians as our enemies (you don't get to support a russian genocidal invasion for 10+ years, without people making up their minds about you).
HK65@sopuli.xyz · 25 pts · 165d
Yes there is. When the full scale invasion happened, Hungarians spontaneously organised themselves to help refugees. People just got in their cars, bought as much aid as they could carry, and drove to the border, taking families on the way back to Budapest.
The reason "illiberal democracy" thrived is that the previous Russian stooge party in Hungary fucked up so hard that protest votes gave Orbán who was campaigning on a liberal message enough votes for total state capture.
Skiluros@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 165d
I hope you're right, but I have my doubts.
And I aware that not everyone in Hungary supports Orban, but the fact remains that Hungary has been one of the biggest supporters of russia in Europe (and it's genocidal imperialist goals in Ukraine and not only) over the past ~15 years. One can't just deny this fact.
HK65@sopuli.xyz · 9 pts · 165d
I'm just saying that it's more complicated. Germany reelected the very same Merkel multiple times, who in exchange for the complete dismantling of Hungarian worker's rights for German Big Auto factories in Hungary, made sure that Orbán can keep stealing EU money to build the biggest propaganda machine of the continent.
And now, when VW is "having to" close factories, it's somehow not these, but the unionised German ones.
Orbán couldn't have done this alone. He would have been ousted much sooner if not for the EU money.
luciferofastora@feddit.org · 2 pts · 164d
That fossil was a mistake in so many ways, and that she kept getting reelected by boomers is one grudge I still hold against my parents. It said Christian on the tin, so they (and too many other people too lazy to actually engage with their policies) bought it hook, line and toxic fucking sinker.
HK65@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 163d
I'm just saying that she retired, and somehow Orbán is losing just after his next cycle. He might have even lost the previous election if not for the Russian invasion.
He is Merkel's guy, and is now going all in on Putin instead.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 164d
I believe the opposition is more Corporate Shitheel and less Religious Reactionary. Consequently, the corporatists tend to go where the money is (Germany, UK, America) and are less invested in the endless white nationalist jerk-off bullshit.
Most people in these countries have no material control over their government. Folks in Lithuania and Estonia aren't governed by their better angles simply because their bureaucrats are aligned with NATO. Hell, Putin himself was eager to align with NATO back when he and the EU were on a post-9/11 anti-Muslim crusade.
And I don't think it is a coincidence that countries closer to the Middle East have developed a more fascistic domestic political scene. Hungary's politics is a consequence of the enormous exodus of Iraqis, Libyans, Syrians, Palestinians, and Turks.
Who caused this continent-wide mass migration? Whatever you might say of Victor Orban (and the man is an absolute POS on par with Milosevic or Michaloliakos), he's not the but-for cause of a historic flight from the Persian Gulf region.
Skiluros@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 163d
I will have disagree on this one.
Hungary is no North Korea or even russia.
And it is very much possible for the overwhelming majority of a given society to support chauvinism and genocidal imperialism. While I am not very knowledgeable on social research in Hungary, but this is patently clear with respect to russian society (note that there is a broad set of research that adjusts for preference falsification, so the usual "they are all afraid" excuses doesn't work).
I would be happy for Hungary to take a different path, I don't believe it will happen, with or without Orban. Just my opinion, albeit shaped by factual developments with respect to Hungary's committed support for russian genocidal imperialism over the past ~15 years (including before the migration issues of 2015).
Akasazh@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 164d
Do a Ceausescu!
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 164d
Ironic, given that Orban was one of Ceausescu's biggest haters.
Akasazh@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 164d
He's become what he hated
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 163d
I don't think he did that himself. Not that I don't think Orban needs the same treatment.
Akasazh@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 163d
Not the same ultimate verdict, but I'd like to see him faceing jail time for corruption.
The most important though, is him fearing the fate
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 165d
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 165d
textured vegetable protein world