The CPC made it a goal to eradicate extreme poverty in China. China's rapid development caused a growing rift between urban areas and rural areas, so the CPC used the gains of urban expansion to help develop rural areas. Extreme poverty was eradicated in China over the course of a decade or so from the beginning of the program. I really like The Metamorphosis of Yuangudui to show what that campaign actually looked like in practice, sending CPC cadres to set up village councils, create democratic processes and build up infrastructure.
If this meme is about how it's ok to like an aspect of a country without the need of liking it as a whole, I agree.
If this is a "China good" meme, I don't agree.
Among other countries, China is also committing genocide human rights abuses against Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslim minorities, suppressing free states and is treating the majority of their population like shit.
And don't get me started on the millions of tons of microplastics they are responsible for..
I'll start with the easiest one, microplastics. The reality is that China is at the forefront of ecological advancement and green energy, electrification, combatting desertification, and more. They also produce the world's goodies, while their own consumption is far more green than most countries. Western countries built by colonialism, imperialism, and neocolonialism can produce more green, using these spoils, but the bulk of their consumption comes from developing countries. In essence, the per capita "climate cost" is higher in the west than in China.
As for claims of genocide, these are false. The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective's Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is a group of Chinese diaspora living in the west, and they compiled an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims. The majority of their sourcing is western, and they cite official Chinese government writing and white papers when relevant. Uyghur culture is preserved.
The vast majority of the population supports their government, actually, because they are treated very well. Over 90% of the population supports the CPC. NIRA data's latest polling found China to be one of the more comprehensively democratic countries in the world as seen by its own population:
You seem to have a very narrow view of China that doesn't actually correspond to material reality, but instead liberal, western perception as an outsider.
Thank you for the comment! The sources seem valid and your text is refreshing to read.
When I have the time to read everything with the needed focus, I'll reassess.
Sounds good! Just read everything critically, try not to read the accusations with hermeneutics of innocence and the defense with hermeneutics of suspicion.
Can you give me good and reliable sources on this genocide that china has been said to commit for years? Or simply explain what you believe is happening there so I can look it up further myself? I'm not baiting you I'm genuinely interested
Can you link us the Wikipedia article about the genocide of Uighurs? It's been going on for four years, after all, according to you. It must be an absolute doozy of an article, like all the other genocide articles.
Oh wait, they renamed it from "genocide of Uighurs" to "persecution of Uighurs" when it became clear there was no evidence of genocide? Weird, I thought Wikipedia was American-biased!
Oh wait again, Wikipedia does hate China, yet even they realized there is no genocide. Time for you to get the memo and stop trying to invent China Bad reality. Loser.
Edit: Lmao his links are literally just a peanut gallery of China Bad. It's so pathetic.
You are correct, China is committing human rights abuses against Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslim minorities.
I don't think that this is the right way to treat peoples.
Please refrain from insulting.
If you react to evidence with denial, there is no reason to discuss.
Well, you are the one attempting to discuss, if you want to prove your own claims (which are VERY serious claims) it is up to YOU to do so, not to yell at strangers and say it’s “genocide” before backpedaling when your own sources work against you. This isn’t denial, it’s trying to prove to many that you’re being lied to by the US, a country that has killed millions and millions of Muslims forgive me when an American talks about fixing China treating their Muslim population poorly. How many people in US speak their native language, how many US natives are there? I mean the TRIBES, not your European ancestors
No one is yelling. Both sides need to prove their points. If one side is insulting, it's not so easy to be open-minded to the other person's point of view.
After reading another commenter's reply I'm willing to reassess. I wouldn't have thought that Wikipedia is influenced to this degree by the US-american government. When I read an article, that is hosted by a site that I understand to be under high quality control, in which it is stated that a minority is being oppressed and persecuted, I am alarmed by people denying it.
Not “denying”, Disproving. There is an easy way to prove these sorts of very heavy claims and that involves following those sources they put all the way at the bottom of the little Wikipedia page you’re talking about. When you concede from “genocide” into more general “human rights abuses” and then claim even Wikipedia denounces it so therefore it must be horrible is pretty sloppy research at best…
You can go to your public library and find books on what Gulags were like, American Prisons, Chinese Prisons, American Japanese internment camps, Nazi concentration camps, and that just scratches the surface of what one person can find alone. Now pair that with decades of fascist influence from huge world organizations like the UN and NATO, ICJ, USAID, etc. and we’re getting colder and colder on the Uyghur human rights violations… it’s almost like they can speak their native language and have pretty clear autonomy in the region they reside, to the point where you could go there yourself as long as you can get the proper papers to get to China itself. Try doing that in the West Bank or Gaza.
I wouldn’t have thought that Wikipedia is influenced to this degree by the US-american government.
Well, you would be shocked at just how much goes into forming the average Americans opinion
When I read an article, that is hosted by a site that I understand to be under high quality control, in which it is stated that a minority is being oppressed and persecuted, I am alarmed by people denying it.
Fucking hell, Wikipedia really is just liberal Holy Scripture.
Your "evidence" if from US government employee / evangelical christian Adrian Zenz, who doesn't speak Chinese, has never been to the region, has zero evidence for his claims, and is part of the US project of demonizing China, and imputing its fanatacism for killing Muslims on its enemies.
Despite claims of "erasing Uyghur culture", they stated: "I did not find any instance of forced labor or cultural and religious repression. The imams we met at the mosques and the students and teachers at the Xinjiang Islamic Institute told us that they enjoy freedom in practicing Islam and that the Chinese government extends support for maintenance of mosques all over Xinjiang. [...]The most visible sign of protection of Uyghur culture by the government is the government-run bilingual kindergarten schools where children learn Putonghua as well as Uyghur language and culture from a very young age."
When US bombs China, we won't have to worry about a thing if things escalate.
Both, the US and the Chinese government *can *and *do *commit crimes on large scales. It is not exclusive to the US.
I hope that you are able to understand that your comment is misrepresenting what I wrote.
When one desaturates, it's hard to see color.
I wrote that I am in favor of liking a certain aspect of a country even when another aspect is not likeable.
I explicitly wrote that I am not for an oversimplified "China good" statement, in case the picture tries to convey that.
“When one desaturates, it’s hard to see color.” -🤓
Sorry. 😂
You don’t even know what this meme is trying to convey? Maybe keep the poetry and political analysis in your notebook
I also noticed you responded to me and not the other people who actually proved you wrong, you just wanted to try out your little poem on me didn’t you 🥲
Eh, no worries friend, it comes off as more soft on you than me. I kinda thought that was your intention.
I’m not trying to be a hard ass, but we are talking geopolitics here. This isn’t some Facebook “real eyes realize real lies” thing, this is real life and provable information… That little poem made me chuckle out loud, I’m gonna start hitting more people with real eyes realize real lies in person when I disagree 😂
30 Comments
pineapple@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 88d
Western marxist definition of socialism:
1 state ownership of the means of production1 worker ownership of the means of production
2 workers in control of the state2 there is no state.
4 No trade
5 must have revolutionised globally.
3 No class
6 no money
What are we even doing here are we just skipping socialism and going straight to communism at this point?
EonNShadow@pawb.social · 13 pts · 87d
I'll bite, tell me about China's poverty alleviation program
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 87d
The CPC made it a goal to eradicate extreme poverty in China. China's rapid development caused a growing rift between urban areas and rural areas, so the CPC used the gains of urban expansion to help develop rural areas. Extreme poverty was eradicated in China over the course of a decade or so from the beginning of the program. I really like The Metamorphosis of Yuangudui to show what that campaign actually looked like in practice, sending CPC cadres to set up village councils, create democratic processes and build up infrastructure.
dessalines@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 87d
Here's a good short documentary on it: China's war on poverty
Alloi@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 87d
they give money and resources to poor people. and it alleviates them.
zbyte64@awful.systems · 9 pts · 87d
Bureaucrats are assigned some of the poorest families and their ability to get a raise depends on improving the income of those families.
FreshLight@sh.itjust.works · -21 pts · 87d
If this meme is about how it's ok to like an aspect of a country without the need of liking it as a whole, I agree.
If this is a "China good" meme, I don't agree.
Among other countries, China is also committing
genocidehuman rights abuses against Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslim minorities, suppressing free states and is treating the majority of their population like shit. And don't get me started on the millions of tons of microplastics they are responsible for..Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 24 pts · 87d
I'll start with the easiest one, microplastics. The reality is that China is at the forefront of ecological advancement and green energy, electrification, combatting desertification, and more. They also produce the world's goodies, while their own consumption is far more green than most countries. Western countries built by colonialism, imperialism, and neocolonialism can produce more green, using these spoils, but the bulk of their consumption comes from developing countries. In essence, the per capita "climate cost" is higher in the west than in China.
As for claims of genocide, these are false. The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective's Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is a group of Chinese diaspora living in the west, and they compiled an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims. The majority of their sourcing is western, and they cite official Chinese government writing and white papers when relevant. Uyghur culture is preserved.
I also recommend reading the UN report as well as (especially) China's response to it, which eclipses it in size and detail. These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz, Christian nationalist and professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation, does. Zenz' work has been thoroughly discredited, yet is supported by western media for its utility in fearmongering. An example is lying about 8.7% of new IUDs as 80%, to back up claims of "forced sterilization," from this chart:
The vast majority of the population supports their government, actually, because they are treated very well. Over 90% of the population supports the CPC. NIRA data's latest polling found China to be one of the more comprehensively democratic countries in the world as seen by its own population:
You seem to have a very narrow view of China that doesn't actually correspond to material reality, but instead liberal, western perception as an outsider.
FreshLight@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 87d
Thank you for the comment! The sources seem valid and your text is refreshing to read. When I have the time to read everything with the needed focus, I'll reassess.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 87d
Sounds good! Just read everything critically, try not to read the accusations with hermeneutics of innocence and the defense with hermeneutics of suspicion.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 87d
No they aren't, the US is just butthurt at losing so we're using the same old atrocity propaganda playbook as usual
Burray_Mookchin@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 87d
Can you give me good and reliable sources on this genocide that china has been said to commit for years? Or simply explain what you believe is happening there so I can look it up further myself? I'm not baiting you I'm genuinely interested
FreshLight@sh.itjust.works · -7 pts · 87d
Thank you for the comment! Sadly, I have somewhat limited time, so the best I can do is to link this article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037
It's about the genocide of the Uyghurs.
Edit: Here are some more links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Tibet_by_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-strait_relations
https://earth.org/china-plastic-pollution/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China
chloroken@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 87d
Can you link us the Wikipedia article about the genocide of Uighurs? It's been going on for four years, after all, according to you. It must be an absolute doozy of an article, like all the other genocide articles.
Oh wait, they renamed it from "genocide of Uighurs" to "persecution of Uighurs" when it became clear there was no evidence of genocide? Weird, I thought Wikipedia was American-biased!
Oh wait again, Wikipedia does hate China, yet even they realized there is no genocide. Time for you to get the memo and stop trying to invent China Bad reality. Loser.
Edit: Lmao his links are literally just a peanut gallery of China Bad. It's so pathetic.
FreshLight@sh.itjust.works · -7 pts · 87d
You are correct, China is committing human rights abuses against Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslim minorities. I don't think that this is the right way to treat peoples.
Please refrain from insulting.
If you react to evidence with denial, there is no reason to discuss.
deathmetaldawgy@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 87d
Well, you are the one attempting to discuss, if you want to prove your own claims (which are VERY serious claims) it is up to YOU to do so, not to yell at strangers and say it’s “genocide” before backpedaling when your own sources work against you. This isn’t denial, it’s trying to prove to many that you’re being lied to by the US, a country that has killed millions and millions of Muslims forgive me when an American talks about fixing China treating their Muslim population poorly. How many people in US speak their native language, how many US natives are there? I mean the TRIBES, not your European ancestors
FreshLight@sh.itjust.works · -2 pts · 86d
No one is yelling. Both sides need to prove their points. If one side is insulting, it's not so easy to be open-minded to the other person's point of view.
After reading another commenter's reply I'm willing to reassess. I wouldn't have thought that Wikipedia is influenced to this degree by the US-american government. When I read an article, that is hosted by a site that I understand to be under high quality control, in which it is stated that a minority is being oppressed and persecuted, I am alarmed by people denying it.
deathmetaldawgy@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 86d
Not “denying”, Disproving. There is an easy way to prove these sorts of very heavy claims and that involves following those sources they put all the way at the bottom of the little Wikipedia page you’re talking about. When you concede from “genocide” into more general “human rights abuses” and then claim even Wikipedia denounces it so therefore it must be horrible is pretty sloppy research at best…
You can go to your public library and find books on what Gulags were like, American Prisons, Chinese Prisons, American Japanese internment camps, Nazi concentration camps, and that just scratches the surface of what one person can find alone. Now pair that with decades of fascist influence from huge world organizations like the UN and NATO, ICJ, USAID, etc. and we’re getting colder and colder on the Uyghur human rights violations… it’s almost like they can speak their native language and have pretty clear autonomy in the region they reside, to the point where you could go there yourself as long as you can get the proper papers to get to China itself. Try doing that in the West Bank or Gaza.
Well, you would be shocked at just how much goes into forming the average Americans opinion
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 85d
Fucking hell, Wikipedia really is just liberal Holy Scripture.
dessalines@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 87d
Your "evidence" if from US government employee / evangelical christian Adrian Zenz, who doesn't speak Chinese, has never been to the region, has zero evidence for his claims, and is part of the US project of demonizing China, and imputing its fanatacism for killing Muslims on its enemies.
chloroken@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 87d
Fuck yourself, liberal sinophobic idiot.
Fancy_Gecko@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 87d
its not about good or bad its about justification for US to bomb china it always is
FreshLight@sh.itjust.works · -10 pts · 87d
When US bombs China, we won't have to worry about a thing if things escalate. Both, the US and the Chinese government *can *and *do *commit crimes on large scales. It is not exclusive to the US.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 87d
"Both sides"
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 85d
Yeah, the US kills millions, and China does... something; be evil foreigners I suppose
deathmetaldawgy@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 87d
“If this is about China bad, I’ll listen”
“If this is about China Good I won’t engage”
And the world is black and it’s white
FreshLight@sh.itjust.works · -9 pts · 87d
I hope that you are able to understand that your comment is misrepresenting what I wrote. When one desaturates, it's hard to see color.
I wrote that I am in favor of liking a certain aspect of a country even when another aspect is not likeable. I explicitly wrote that I am not for an oversimplified "China good" statement, in case the picture tries to convey that.
deathmetaldawgy@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 87d
“When one desaturates, it’s hard to see color.” -🤓
Sorry. 😂 You don’t even know what this meme is trying to convey? Maybe keep the poetry and political analysis in your notebook
I also noticed you responded to me and not the other people who actually proved you wrong, you just wanted to try out your little poem on me didn’t you 🥲
FreshLight@sh.itjust.works · -3 pts · 86d
I didn't want to hit a soft spot.
deathmetaldawgy@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 86d
Eh, no worries friend, it comes off as more soft on you than me. I kinda thought that was your intention.
I’m not trying to be a hard ass, but we are talking geopolitics here. This isn’t some Facebook “real eyes realize real lies” thing, this is real life and provable information… That little poem made me chuckle out loud, I’m gonna start hitting more people with real eyes realize real lies in person when I disagree 😂