Apologies if this has already been discussed, I've only just discovered this community.
Seems to me, that with the enshittification of literally every aspect of life lately, and the apparent acceleration towards full oligarchy by a handful of spoiled, arrogant, nepo-baby billionaires, that we're a society that's ripe for a switch to a more socialist model.
But I keep reading theories regarding the reason behind the sudden increase in popularity of ON and it seems like all the issues they talk about should be creating a flood of new socialists but instead they're veering off to the hard right.
I know that we've all been subject to a lifetime of anti-socialist conditioning, but it blows my mind that these people don't think that voting far right is just going to make all those problems worse. It further blows my mind that they can't just take one look at the USA and see a multitude of reasons to not vote for Pauline Hanson.
Does anyone out there have any proven approaches to change these wayward minds? Is it better to try to teach them that PH and ON suck, or that socialism isn't inherently bad?
There's plenty of people arguing that the reason so many trump supporters are rusted on is that they don't actually care about his performance as president, they're just in it for the racism. Could that be the same for ON here? I certainly know some people who are 100% committed to being racist, and they're typically doing ok financially so they probably think that will continue forever regardless of who is in government. But again, they can just look at the US for evidence there.
I dunno, I guess this is partly a rant. Trying to reason this out gives me a headache, so letting it out here helps, but I'd also love to hear some proven or even potential talking points that might help open some eyes and change some minds.
Cheers.
9 Comments
minty@aussie.zone · 4 pts · 73d
I feel that.
I suspect the most effective way to change minds if via action, a tangible feeling that the government is actually working for them. Words aren't going to mean much when they simply don't trust the current establishment at all. Recall that some people had so little trust that they straight up thought the covid vaccines were going to kill them.
Also if your wanting to appeal to ON voters (if that's something that is actually wise), don't label it socialist, that's political suicide. You just aren't going to convince them.
I think the best strategy is to keep talk about tangible solutions to our various crisis (Gas tax, social housing , whatever else) and also prepare for a coalition and ON government (either next election, or the one after) since that's just gonna happen unfortunately.
eureka@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 73d
Know your audience, but yes, this is usually the case. Some people have preconceptions of socialism and the label will shut them off to anything afterwards.
Sure, but to also engage in action! If they're concerned about housing, I can say with confidence that I'm doing real on-the-ground action to make housing more accessible and to keep aussies housed, and I can show them groups who are doing this. Talk is cheap, and when the owning class have an entire media industry at their disposal, we can't rely on talk alone.
TheCriticalMember@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 72d
This is a very good point, and I think a lot of effort needs to be put into undoing the smear campaign that's been run against socialism forever. Seems like when people understand it, they're all for it.
Honestly, I think the only possible silver lining to that is that it will likely hasten whatever revolution/unrest needs to happen if we're ever going to have a shot at something better. Otherwise, just thinking about it makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. And when it does happen I'm going to be one ornery son of a bitch.
eureka@aussie.zone · 4 pts · 73d
I'm in a hurry so I can't give this a proper response yet, but the worst thing one can do is bring prejudices and assumptions about all ON voters and assume the person your talking to is the devil. There are all sorts of people who their rhetoric appeals to, including those that contradict the others! Try to find shared values and common ground, and build from there. That said, not all people can be appealed to, so choose your battles.
Fun fact: the party is in favour of medicinal cannabis
TheCriticalMember@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 72d
I do struggle with that a little bit. I'm married to an American, lived over there for part of Bush Jr and almost all of Obama before we moved back here, and have a lot of in-laws who voted for trump. In 2016 I gave them the benefit of the doubt and assumed they were misinformed, in 20 I figured they were tragically stupid, in 24 I despised anyone who still supported that ignorant grifting shitstain.
But I'm trying again with our crop, and I have the US as an example to point to. Just figured if I could understand what makes someone realise they're getting screwed by the system and somehow conclude that the best thing to do is vote ON, it might be easier to find a crack to work on.
eureka@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 69d
Yeah, exactly. The bottom line is, it's bizarre and confronting to see people act politically (incl. voting) in a way so against their own material interests.
One thing that helped me get more perspective was to find interviews with former reactionaries. One fascinating example I recall was a trans man who, in an effort to validate their masculinity, joined an accelerationist neo-fascist group. The contradiction seems so bizarre from the outside until they're given a chance to explain their thinking pattern.
Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 72d
The biggest two things is the media system feeding these people their narratives and understanding their perception of themselves doesn't match the political ideologies they support.
Media
So including things like Murdoch tv and papers, Rogan-like podcasts, Youtube, facebook, insta, tiktok video's and influencers.
The media system is controlled by oligarch-like interests and delivers most everyone a great portion of their own slanted narratives. This is especially strong for the One Nation 'right', in my view, because they have little foundational knowledge in different methods of running societies. This is also why its easier for these people to relate everything back to their own feelings, they don'ttalk in ideological twrms because its unfamiliar and wonky to them. They aren't dumb people, few people actually are, they've just spent their time doing other things therefore have other experiences including things like drinking at the pub, gambling, playing a sport, building a company, studying STEM sciences or engineering, b they're generally not going out to a climate protest or reading Smith, Marx, Keynes or even Friedman.
Case 1. Duttons On Water Matters.
This is a case of media management that should be in textbooks. He closed down debate by stopping Government and agency commentary completely, and degrading the ability for journalists to investigate (FOI is hard when a journalist doesn't know what to look for).
This took the power of 'boat people' as a salacious issue out of the media cycle, because only the arrivals that made land fall could ever be reported on with any clarity. This served to take the heat out of the issue simply because the media couldn't work everybody up about it anymore.
Duttons policy possibly helped reduce boat arrivals as a popular method of transport, every time a boat interception was selaciously reported on served as an advert for more to come by that method. Although the hardline response was probably the key there
Its questionable if a government with an unfriendly media, such as Labor has, could have adopted the same policy and got away with it. But the lesson isn't the exact policy prescription, its about how to shut down media narratives.
Case 2. Pauline Hanson's Cartoons
Humour and lampooning the rest of the government in cartoon form is such a wildly successful strategy, especially for Gen X and younger. Anyone who watched the Simpsons or South Park should inherrently know this. Its no surprise that their popularity has raised so much when these episodes are being released.
This is something the right is generally bad at, so this has been an impressive example from ON. Although Pauline Hanson has failed in her own character by taking herself far too seriously. Which is great, because I think people haven't identified so much with Hanson as they have in the US with Trump, who is clearly entertaining for people. This is a weakness and happy news , it means ON is (mostly) not a cult of personality.
Perception of Self
Take a look at where they're popular, then consider the kinds of policies their representatives have often had, water management plans, royalties for regions, farmers/rural subsidies, drought relief. There is often an aspect of Government intervention in their policies. The Nationals were once described as Agrarian Socialists, the way they describe themselves changed, but their policies didn't, thats the same with their supporters. There is a difference in the policies they want, and the theoretical policy prescriptions their politics says they want.
Tangible results from a Government like Labor will always be read down by most One Nation voters because they think of themselves as 'right leaning', and think Labor is 'left'.
These two things together means a 'socialist' reaction can be socialist in policy but not in name, and must feed the self perceptions but can disregard the contradictions.
The key narrative point that needs to change is racism being the new 'cool'. Change that and you take the wind out of ON's sails. This doesn't mean rely on other nationalities than white people, they can be just as racist.
Gotta go now, kids are shouting.
TheCriticalMember@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 72d
Completely agree on the media angle, having lived in the states for a considerable time. It always shocked me the way the media would paint one side versus the other and so many people just couldn't see it. I had some infuriatingly frustrating arguments back in the day with people who swore that Obama blew up US deficits when it was easily verifiable that his government reduced them significantly. Similar story with the US having the lowest post-covid inflation in the world under Biden. A media made up of united, oppositional right wing propaganda and a weak, both-sides mainstream makes easily verifiable facts and tangible benefits completely worthless.
As long as the media is owned by the likes of murdoch and musk I think it's going to be near impossible to reach some of these people.
Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 72d
The media narrative angle of this is why I wholeheartedly support truly independent social media and media of all kinds.