It's not up to them whether we can force negotiations lol. That's what it means to force them.
And yeah blaming losses on leftists is stupid because there truly aren't that many of us. I haven't found good polling but from what I can deduce it's in the single digits percentage-wise.
Someone will always highlight recent elections with incredibly thin margins, though. E.g. people who attribute Trump winning in 2016 to disappointed Bernie voters that didn't show up to vote for Hillary.
But that also ignores just how broken the US electoral system is anyways, where it doesn't matter how many more votes you have if they still aren't distributed correctly.
Yeah there are multiple reasons this breaks down but fundamentally it is the responsibility of leaders to convince voters to vote for them. If they fail to do so that's on them, not the voters.
Also, in tight elections there are always a large number of possible constituencies that could swing the election. It does not follow that they're individually responsible for the outcome.
Especially, since, y'know, as a leftist who typically does vote for democrats it's not as if I personally control what other leftists do.
I don't think so. There are a lot more people willing to call themselves racist than leftist. Leftist policies, when not called leftist, are incredibly popular, even with Republican voters.
I personally call myself an Anarchist, but I agree. If we're trying to sell an idea, it's best not to give it a name. Just describe it and it'll propogate if it's a good idea.
Yeah, the only "real" label I apply to my self is Absurdist and that doesn't really have much to do with politics. Labels are artificial. They're an abstraction to make communication easier.
In politics, you kind of need to go beyond the surface level communication, deeper than labels, to get to the good stuff. Most people agree on most things (1: leave me the fuck alone 2: I like money 3: I like to live in a good neighborhood, whatever that means) so when you take the leftist issues and describe them abstractly, they usually fit neatly within those motivators.
Leftist is what the Democratic Party calls me. More left than progressives or Democratic Socalists.
But compared to other liberal nations, Democrats are center right, and Democratic Socialists are centrist. The Republican party was far right in the Reagan era. Now it's radical extreme right.
Right now according to the Republican party, the Democratic party is communist, and degenerate.
But we've seen actual socialist democratic societies like Grenada and Revolutionary Catalonia and I think we should aspire to those.
That may well be true but until those people are activated and organized into a political movement that has the power to demand concessions, don't expect things to change. That's all I'm saying.
And yeah that means we are going to need to work with people who have disgusting views on some issues.
Unfortunately the vast majority of the public is too disengaged to care about details like "policy", instead voting based on gender, skin tone, and lies- if they vote at all
“This was a preventable disaster,” Cook said, “but Harris and the Democratic Party leadership prioritized the agendas of corporate donors and gambled on a centrist path, while largely abandoning working-class, young, and progressive voters.”
But I wouldn't rule out gerrymandering, voter suppression, voter caging and the massive oligarch-owned far-right propaganda machine that dominates TV viewership and social media.
I guess the midterms in 2026 will show us whether or not that multi-tiered attack is enough to kill democracy, or if the people of the US really do vote based on the economy.
You hear the same thing from people who say that “both sides of politics are wrong.”
What they actually are saying is that the left won’t listen to the right side… as an example, I have a friend who lives in another state who is a hard-core Trump supporter, but since his reelection he has had his eyes opened up to how terrible he is, but at the same time he still supports ICE but calls Trump a pedophile but then also says that the democrats are the real problem with everything…but both sides are bad apparently.
This certainly isn't true of every case. Socialists, viz., those who are further left than Democrats, have good reason to find fault with both sides. Allow me to give you some examples:
• Republicans and Democrats both vote to increase ICE funding every year.
• Republicans and Democrats in Congress both practice insider trading.
• Republicans and Democrats both bail out banks and give corporations subsides (i.e., corporate welfare).
• Republicans and Democrats both receive campaign finances from billionaires (i.e., legalized bribery).
• Republican and Democrat presidents both drone strike "terrorists" overseas and bomb countries without Congressional approval.
• Republicans and Democrats both kept Guantanamo Bay open for decades.
• Republicans and Democrats both crack down on whistle blowers.
• Republicans and Democrats both maintain a surveillance state on its citizens.
• Republican and Democrat administrations both assassinated democratically elected leaders overseas.
• Republicans and Democrats both fund Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people.
Trump was not created ex nihilo. Presidential power has been growing for decades. Congress has been blatantly corrupt for decades. We have broken (and supported breaking) international laws for decades. To equate all major problems with one side of the political aisle would be overly reductive.
Many countries do, it's just that the USA thinks it's special for having two parties that in Spain would be classified as far-right and traditional right (e.g. Vox and PP)
35 Comments
eatCasserole@lemmy.world · 84 pts · 55d
terraquad@feddit.org · 10 pts · 55d
torture seems like a pretty good compromise
/s
forgetfulmeat@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 55d
I'm gonna throw this at someone next time they act like I'm an extremist for being anti-maga
eatCasserole@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 52d
It's such a useful cartoon. Unfortunately relevant almost all the damn time.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 55d
Pictured: Stalin talking to the German Communist Party.
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net · 31 pts · 55d
Bad news is there are a lot more racists than leftists. If leftists want to force compromise we need to increase our bargaining power somehow.
The thing people don't seem to understand is that political compromise happens not because it is wanted. It's because the other faction has forced it.
nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 37 pts · 55d
Always enough leftitst to blame election losses on, never enough to force negotiation. We see how it is. Demanding our vote? Compromise with us.
Lasherz12@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 55d
"Our enemy is both very strong and very weak." Type stuff
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net · 5 pts · 55d
It's not up to them whether we can force negotiations lol. That's what it means to force them.
And yeah blaming losses on leftists is stupid because there truly aren't that many of us. I haven't found good polling but from what I can deduce it's in the single digits percentage-wise.
zikzak025@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 55d
Someone will always highlight recent elections with incredibly thin margins, though. E.g. people who attribute Trump winning in 2016 to disappointed Bernie voters that didn't show up to vote for Hillary.
But that also ignores just how broken the US electoral system is anyways, where it doesn't matter how many more votes you have if they still aren't distributed correctly.
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 55d
Yeah there are multiple reasons this breaks down but fundamentally it is the responsibility of leaders to convince voters to vote for them. If they fail to do so that's on them, not the voters.
Also, in tight elections there are always a large number of possible constituencies that could swing the election. It does not follow that they're individually responsible for the outcome.
Especially, since, y'know, as a leftist who typically does vote for democrats it's not as if I personally control what other leftists do.
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 5 pts · 55d
A blood clot the size of a pinhead can cause a heart attack.
Something can be tiny and still mess things up.
nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 55d
Then it sounds like blood clots are worth taking seriously instead of just hoping they'll end up okay.
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 1 pts · 55d
Yeah, but if someone is staring at a machine gun, the clots kind of get ignored.
And if the clots kill the person first, that really doesn't stop the gun man, does it?
Cethin@lemmy.zip · 29 pts · 55d
I don't think so. There are a lot more people willing to call themselves racist than leftist. Leftist policies, when not called leftist, are incredibly popular, even with Republican voters.
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 5 pts · 55d
Then maybe you shouldn't make a big deal of calling yourself 'Progressive' or 'Leftist' or 'Communist'
Mao said that the revolutionary swims through the population like a fish swims through the sea.
Cethin@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 55d
I personally call myself an Anarchist, but I agree. If we're trying to sell an idea, it's best not to give it a name. Just describe it and it'll propogate if it's a good idea.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 55d
Yeah, the only "real" label I apply to my self is Absurdist and that doesn't really have much to do with politics. Labels are artificial. They're an abstraction to make communication easier.
In politics, you kind of need to go beyond the surface level communication, deeper than labels, to get to the good stuff. Most people agree on most things (1: leave me the fuck alone 2: I like money 3: I like to live in a good neighborhood, whatever that means) so when you take the leftist issues and describe them abstractly, they usually fit neatly within those motivators.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 55d
Leftist is what the Democratic Party calls me. More left than progressives or Democratic Socalists.
But compared to other liberal nations, Democrats are center right, and Democratic Socialists are centrist. The Republican party was far right in the Reagan era. Now it's radical extreme right.
Right now according to the Republican party, the Democratic party is communist, and degenerate.
But we've seen actual socialist democratic societies like Grenada and Revolutionary Catalonia and I think we should aspire to those.
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 4 pts · 55d
And this is why political labels are less than useless.
Back in the day, Fiorella LaGuardia ran for NYC Mayor on a Fusion Ticket that included Communists, Socialists, and Republicans.
The 1956 GOP Party platform is Left of where Mamdani and AOC are today.
The Netherlands are a monarchy.
If you actually want progress, stop talking about labels and work to get good people elected.
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net · 0 pts · 55d
That may well be true but until those people are activated and organized into a political movement that has the power to demand concessions, don't expect things to change. That's all I'm saying.
And yeah that means we are going to need to work with people who have disgusting views on some issues.
Hapankaali@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 55d
Compromise happens in systems that enforce it, i.e. multi-party systems.
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 55d
Very true. The system itself is a big part of the issue.
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 55d
You win over others with policies, policies that improve their material conditions. Those policies are popular across the board.
Witchfire@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 55d
Unfortunately the vast majority of the public is too disengaged to care about details like "policy", instead voting based on gender, skin tone, and lies- if they vote at all
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 55d
Is that analysis based on data or vibes?
::: spoiler The data on why the Democrats failed to win is clear
Here Are 34 Polls That Show A Ceasefire & Weapons Embargo Help Kamala Win
Kamala Would Have Won With A Weapons Embargo
Democrats' Working-Class Failures, Analysis Finds, Are 'Why Trump Beat Harris'
2024 Post-Election Report: A retrospective and longitudinal data analysis on why Trump beat Harris
How Trump and Harris Voters See America’s Role in the World
Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college
Democrats should run on the popular progressive ideas, but not the unpopular ones
Here Are 7 ‘Left Wing’ Ideas (Almost) All Americans Can Get Behind
Finding common ground: 109 national policy proposals with bipartisan support
Progressive Policies Are Popular Policies
Tim Walz's Progressive Policies Popular With Republicans in Swing States
https://blueprint2024.com/polling/harris-poll-positive-message-8-8/
https://blueprint-research.com/polling/distance-biden-ads-message-test-10-15/
:::
‘Feckless’ Ken Martin Rebuked Over DNC Decision to Bury Autopsy of 2024 Election Disaster
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 55d
That's a factor.
But I wouldn't rule out gerrymandering, voter suppression, voter caging and the massive oligarch-owned far-right propaganda machine that dominates TV viewership and social media.
I guess the midterms in 2026 will show us whether or not that multi-tiered attack is enough to kill democracy, or if the people of the US really do vote based on the economy.
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 55d
The best way to improve the odds is to help build a real opposition with your local DSA
Witchfire@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 55d
Different groups of people. A very significant chunk of people aren't even aware that the US is at war.
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 55d
If you can't back up your claims with data, I don't get the point of this conversation
https://theconversation.com/what-americans-think-of-the-war-in-iran-277627
Samskara@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 55d
The left has been busy to expand and redefine racism instead of focusing on class solidarity.
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 55d
You hear the same thing from people who say that “both sides of politics are wrong.” What they actually are saying is that the left won’t listen to the right side… as an example, I have a friend who lives in another state who is a hard-core Trump supporter, but since his reelection he has had his eyes opened up to how terrible he is, but at the same time he still supports ICE but calls Trump a pedophile but then also says that the democrats are the real problem with everything…but both sides are bad apparently.
balderdash9@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 55d
This certainly isn't true of every case. Socialists, viz., those who are further left than Democrats, have good reason to find fault with both sides. Allow me to give you some examples:
Trump was not created ex nihilo. Presidential power has been growing for decades. Congress has been blatantly corrupt for decades. We have broken (and supported breaking) international laws for decades. To equate all major problems with one side of the political aisle would be overly reductive.
kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 55d
Some countries actually have a functionning centrist partt
Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 55d
Many countries do, it's just that the USA thinks it's special for having two parties that in Spain would be classified as far-right and traditional right (e.g. Vox and PP)