You wouldn't think of a European community of being so insanely pro Russia, yet on every single post mentioning Russia, any negative comments about Russia or their government will get downvoted to hell, some people get banned. I would not be surprised if I am banned or downvoted for posting this. People who are not just blatantly spamming Kremlin propaganda, please say why you are so pro Russia, to someone confused.

107 Comments
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 41 pts · 54d
Lemmy.ml is run by communists, and communists tend to critically support the Russian Federation.
Kenvexity@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 54d
Yet the Russian Federation isn't communist. Do they still think of it as the Soviet Union? If so, they are incredibly mistaken.
yogthos@lemmy.ml · 24 pts · 53d
It looks like we need to unpack what the phrase critical support actually means. Communists don't look at the Russian Federation and imagine the Soviet Union, nor does nobody think Putin is building socialism. The support is a strategic judgment about the global balance of forces, rooted in a materialist reading of where the primary contradiction lies rather than having anything to do with Russia's internal character.
The primary contradiction in the world is a bloc conflict between Western imperialist states, led by the United States, and the Global South. Western imperialism is the system that enforces economic extraction through debt, sanctions, military bases, trade rules, enabled by dollar's reserve status. It's the force that has strangled development in the Global South and consistently prevented any alternative path of development from gaining traction. As long as that system remains unchallenged there can be no space for experiments in socialism or even genuinely sovereign capitalist development that could later be transformed. That makes breaking Western hegemony a prerequisite for any meaningful change going forward.
Russia currently acts as the main military force directly challenging American led unipolar order. While it's not doing it for communist reasons, their push against NATO expansion and efforts to build alternative financial and trade architectures with BRICS are objectively opening fractures in Western dominance. Russia bogs down NATO in Ukraine and exposes the limits of Western power which, in turn, weakens the imperialist camp creating room for left movements to grow around the world.
So when communists say they critically support Russia, we are not endorsing Russia's internal political system, its capitalist class, nationalist ideology, or its treatment of workers and leftists inside its borders. Our support is conditional and tactical, extending only as far as Russia acts as a counter hegemonic force. The moment Russia pivots toward trying to carve up the world with Western powers or becomes a new oppressor of weaker nations in a way that simply replaces current imperialist hierarchy, that support goes away. Communists are internationalists who see the current moment as one where the central task as weakening the main enemy.
I'll use a historical parallel to help make this all more concrete. Communists critically supported the Allied powers against nazi Germany during the second world war even though the Allies were capitalist imperialists themselves, and just as is the case with Russia today, no one mistook Churchill or Roosevelt for being socialists. The point was that fascism represented the most aggressive and immediate threat to the working class and to the possibility of socialist advance. Today, that threat happens to be Western imperialism with its endless hot wars along with economic warfare against the rest of the world. And the scope of critical support is about actively disrupting Western imperialism.
We live in a world where the US and its vassals can dictate terms to everyone else, and breaking Western hegemony leads to one with more possibilities for mass movements and resource sovereignty creating more room for socialist organizing. Russia's resistance helps crack that door open, and that's why it makes sense to make tactical alignment on one particular axis of struggle while maintaining full independence on all others which is what giving critical support is.
robear@lemmy.zip · -2 pts · 52d
Unless it's Georgia, Moldova or Ukraine.
In which case, fuck those *flips rolodex* Nazi's.
yogthos@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 52d
I just love how you trolls keep pretending there are no nazis in Ukraine even as Poland is now having an official row with Ukraine over it. Like no way you can be that detached from reality. You know exactly what you're doing here fash.
robear@lemmy.zip · -3 pts · 51d
Just like there's no Nazi's in Russia eh buddy. They literally deployed a state funded neo-Nazi mercenary group in their imperialist war (Wagner).
Maybe Russia needs a special military operation for de-nazification.
yogthos@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 51d
oh this must be that whataboutism I keep hearing about from you lib trolls
robear@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 51d
Excellent rebuttal.
Supporting the Russian state as an anti-imperialist force is not just wrong but hypocritical.
America can be bad without Russia having to be good.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 23 pts · 54d
No, no communist thinks the RF is the Soviet Union (or RSFSR, which was the specifically Russian part of the USSR). What communists understand is that the Russian Federation is currently strategically aligned against imperialism, and is a strong ally of socialist countries, due to inherited political ties and capitalist encirclement. Communists support a revolution in Russia to overthrow the nationalists and reinstate socialism, but not on western terms.
Kenvexity@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 54d
So they support it for being anti-western, even though it has little in common with a socialist nation? Just to make it clear
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 24 pts · 54d
That's an oversimplification, but close-ish to the truth. The Russian Federation is presently anti-imperialist and is helping socialist countries. This is what communists support. Communists do not support the capitalist decay of the Russian Federation, and want a restoration of socialism in Eastern Europe. This is why it is "critical support," same with Iran for example. Socialist countries like China and Cuba are supported with less reservations, hence the distinction between critical and general support.
Kenvexity@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 54d
Okay, thanks for clearing it up. I thought the people here supported the Russian Federation fully in its current form,not wanting it to change, but you made a good point.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 54d
No problem!
SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 52d
Europe = Israel. That's the most obvious reason to me.
mistermodal@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 53d
I'm most optimistic about their foreign policy of mutual development & the ministry of defense pushing for more state planning of industrial capacity. It's more than just being a countervailing wind to the US bloc with their nuclear arsenal & alliance with China, which hasn't had enough time to build one up yet. The problem is the Kremlin & the central bank are still pretty neoliberal.
frisbird@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 54d
Well, hold on. Maybe we don't all want a restoration of the USSR. It would be great from Russia to become communist again, but it doesn't need to be a restoration. In fact, given its failures, I would think the better path would be for the formation of a net new socialist republic in Russia, and in the former Soviet states, but necessarily the same formation as in the past.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 54d
Fair! I actually agree, and would want something more similar to China with respect to how administrative divisions are handled. I was simplifying it for OP, but you make a good point.
ManixT@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 53d
russia is absolutely imperialist. You're just straight up lying.
davel@lemmy.ml · 23 pts · 54d
We’re not anti-Western qua Western. There just happens to be a lot of overlap between the West and imperialism.
ManixT@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 53d
You do realize russia is and has been imperialist, right?
RiverRock@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 53d
lithiumground@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 52d
If so, then why did my post got downvotes? https://lemmy.world/post/49103025
you are wrong
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 52d
Lemmy.ml is broadly federated, so anything that suggests Ukraine may not be winning the war is down voted by people from Lemmy.world, etc.
lithiumground@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 51d
that is right. My posts, which show the reality of Ukraine get downvoted. My posts/comments that criticize Russia get upvotes.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 51d
There are many Lemmy.ml users critically supportive of Russia. Posting anti-Ukrainian or pro-Russian content on a community on Lemmy.ml gets higher upvotes and fewer down votes/removals than other instances. This is being perceived as being more pro-Russian by OP.
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 53d
When someone posts something and the response is "this is Russian propaganda" instead of addressing it they get downvoted. Or banned if they pair it with insults against users.
There's selective outrage on Russia when the EU and NA are genociding all over the world. You post BBC (British state media) and nobody bats an eye. But you post RT and every Liberal loses their mind.
The reason many people feel weirded out is because these perspectives are banned from Reddit and most other Liberal spaces and therefore people learn to self-censor and to tell others not to talk about it.
doben@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 52d
Well, as with the latest ruling by the Court of Justice of the European Union on case C-67/25, sharing sanctioned media on open sites like this one, will make you, personally as a user or as an operator of the service, liable before a criminal court. Why? Because it‘s deemed Russian propaganda.
gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org · -3 pts · 52d
it's all about the economic situation. large masses of people were wealthy in the US in 1960 and people saw that and said "well, here in the west it works well for us" (somehow without owning the means of production) meanwhile there's just soo many stories about long food-lines and general poverty in the former sovjet union. talk to anyone from romania and they will shout your ears full how much they hate the sovjet union.
so, do you think it's fair that lots of people have a pro-western bias?
i recognize that the US is rapidly enshittifying people's economic situation these days. this is mostly a historical contemplation. the future will be different than the past.
QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 52d
Since it's inception through it's long campaign of perpetrating, funding, and backing colonialism, neocolonialism, and imperialism across the periphery.
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 52d
I've got a story of 500 trucks waiting in line to feed people in a concentration camp but the West blocking them from entering.
Here's a meme from the front page today
AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 54d
A lot of time you find yourself defending the truth. Russia is a state enemy of the US-Western hegemony which controls the largest and most expensive propaganda machine that's ever been created.
davel@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 54d
Previously:
ZeroHora@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 54d
For any people reading this, it's basic but holy shit It's seem too advanced for poor western brain: Communist doesn't need to only support communists and doesn't need to support everything that a communists do, it's not RED vs BLUE for fuck sake, if it's was no communist would support Palestine.
specimen@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 54d
However, a communist friend of mine did say that aligning with groups that oppose “Western Imperialism” was deliberately part of the the communist party’s strategy, as in, any effort that can undermine it should be supported, overlooking everything else. Hence why you won’t ever see them talk ill publicly of Iran, North Korea, Russia, China, etc.
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 53d
The only reason people withold criticising those countries on some issues is because the West will use that as a pretext to genocide them. It's like discussing "how to improve the Jewish community" during the Holocaust.
Those things can wait until the countries have finally liberated themselves from Western imperialism. Without that they'll never be able to take any serious steps before being moved back to the start.
Coincidentally that's also the reason most Westerners are conditioned to constantly talk ill of those countries. They have to liberate
IraqAfghanistanSyriaLibyaIranAn excellent article about this pertaining the Middle-East: Arabs and Muslims: The Real Victims of Modern Antisemitism
ZeroHora@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 53d
Yes, some communists do support some of that but not because of ideology but for a strategic reason, the part of "overlooking everything else" is completely bullshit.
Press X to doubt.
You won't see communists to that much because liberals already do that endlessly for all the wrong reasons.
marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 53d
That "communist" 'friend' either never heard of critical support, or vastly misunderstands it.
I generally support Russia. And Ukraine. Because the more resources spent on the pointless war the fewer resources can be spent internally in those countries to resist popular revolution.
It's not overlooking the bad that either government does, it is simply supporting them and the actions they perform that happen to align with the wider goal of global revolution.
frisbird@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 54d
Russia is in a contest with European empire and basically has been for centuries. Napoleon invaded Russia. The Americans invaded Russia. The Germans invaded Russia.
Did they do this because Russia is inherently "bad"? No. They did it to advance European empire. In the case of the Germans and the Americans, they explicitly did it to stop the working class from holding power and directing their own government to develop along the communist path.
Russia became capitalist and liberal and then it tried to join the Western Empire. It really thought it could be part of the club that rules the world so brutally and violently. But the West rebuffed Russia multiple times and then demonstrated that they had not yet given up their goal of subjugating Russia and exploiting it for resources. So Russia took up the position, finally, that the West cannot be trusted and that Russia must prevent the West from ever being able to subjugate it.
In the current contest between Russia and Ukraine, everyone in the political spheres understands this as a proxy war between Russia and the West. US military leaders have said it, NATO leaders have said it. It's not a Russian expansionist project. It's a proxy war, which is how the West has been fighting with Russia for at least 6 decades. This is not a wild claim. It's a historically continuous one.
In a contest between Russia and the West, we want Russia to win. Because the alternative is that the West expands its empire to include the vast territory, resources, and peoples of Russia. This would be very bad for the whole world (except white people in the Empire). The evidence for that is plain to see. What Europe and its colonies have done to the world is beyond the largest evil the world has ever seen.
In the end, we are forced into a brutal calculus - do we support the end of the Western empire or do we support the continuation of the Western empire? If we support the end of the Western empire, we have to acknowledge that we support the Empire's enemies. And if we would rather oppose the Empire's enemies, we have to acknowledge that we therefore support the expansion and maintenance of the empire. There is, unfortunately, no alternative.
Maxxie@piefed.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 54d
frisbird@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 54d
You can explain why you think it's baffling. I don't think it's pointless
Maxxie@piefed.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 53d
Majestic@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 53d
Please read Yogthos reply here: https://lemmy.ml/post/49690377/26558932
It basically encapsulates most of the important reasoning.
Why do we support Iran against the US? Objectively Iran is a theocracy that is socially backwards, it oppresses women, it oppresses LGBTQ people, it has a reactionary social character. Why then do we support it? Because it is the lesser evil. And importantly we would support it if it aggressed first against the zionist entity because it's not about aggression or simplistic victim/aggressor dynamics but about liberation for the region and the world. And because Iran exists the way it does today because of western meddling and it cannot move beyond its present character as long as the west is there serving as a foil. Take away that, take away the zionist entity and the aggression and siege situation, allow development and these things have an opportunity to change.
Anyways you use the term "totalitarian" which was itself invented by a Nazi apologist zionist to equate communism to Nazism. But why do you suppose that Russia is this but the west with its vast surveillance nets, its ICE, its camera systems, its global communications intercept network run by the eyes groups with NSA, GCHQ, and its brutal wars with atrocities against civilians across the middle east is not? I mean you can be arrested in Britain for the most trivial of things. You can be sent to prison for saying "I support Palestine Action" while peacefully protesting. How is it that these countries are not also "totalitarian" but Russia is? It cannot be and people only think that way because of propaganda. You have been blinded to the police state and brutality of the west while the brutality of Russia is hyped up, they hide the atrocities and human rights violations of the west and play down the problems while playing up, highlighting every instance and pounding the drums in your ears that scream "this is totalitarianism" to convince you of this fact.
Kleptocracy is also a meaningless term to communists. It's almost like a slur which is selectively applied to the designated "bad guys". All capitalist nations are run under a dictatorship of capital and capitalists to serve their interests. This is true in Russia and it is true in the US. If some places are a little more brazen with their corruption and others a little better at hiding it behind "lobbying" that doesn't change the essential character in our opinion. People starve and sleep on the streets in every major US city while the wealthy sit atop their 12th mansion and party with models and use private jets to private islands. The wealthy do things like rape children and get a slap on the wrist because prison would be bad for them. The wealthy run pedophile networks like Jeffery Epstein and the government buries the evidence and ensures no one is held to account while fabricating lies about what really happened. They crash the economy like in 2008 and the government bails them out while shafting the average person. Does that sound like "kleptocracy"? Because that's the US. Russian capitalist elites are no different, they steal from the people, they live lavishly while others suffer, they commit crimes and use connections to get away with it. It's no different.
frisbird@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 52d
Russia is no more a kleptocratic police state than any other. The reason your metaphor is "anime villain" is because your understanding is cartoonish. Russia is a real country with a long history and over 140 million people. It has a total all-in police budget of $47B. The USA has ~350M people and an all-in police budget of $237B.
Russia's per capita incarceration rate is significantly lower than the US. Russia recidivism rate is significantly lower than the US.
Essentially on all metrics you could measure a police state, the US is worse than Russia.
But of course, people will argue, just because the US is worse doesn't mean that we can ignore Russia's problems. And we don't. We just understand that in a contest between Russia, who primarily has conflicts at its borders, and the US who primarily has conflicts in the periphery of the world where it does immense harm, we support any and all back pressure against the US even if that means a corrupt and violent state like Russia wins that contest.
Maxxie@piefed.blahaj.zone · -1 pts · 52d
frisbird@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 52d
I don't think it's you being salty. I'm sure you can find point by point differences for everything, because every country is individually quite different. It doesn't do anything about the macro perspective. Domestic policy is nearly irrelevant to the larger geopolitical contest.
Maxxie@piefed.blahaj.zone · -1 pts · 52d
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 54d
How familiar are you with Marxism-Leninism?
Maxxie@piefed.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 54d
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 54d
The idea of a political vanguard was already present with Marx and Engels. Lenin advanced Marxism to the era of imperialism. Further, characterizing socialist democracy as "a small group of people [with] absolute power" is just not how socialist democracy or vanguards function in reality.
Maxxie@piefed.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 54d
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 54d
I don't have 50+ pages on why the next revolution will be different. In many ways, the next revolution will be very similar, such as concentrating political power in the hands of the working classes, and the violent reaction towards counterrevolutionaries. This is generally true of revolution. We do live in a different time, so different conditions will lead to different results (for example, Eastern European socialism may look more like China today than the USSR). However, I do have evidence supporting how your characterization of the distribution of power doesn't actually hold up to scrutiny.
The soviet union was a dictatorship of the proletariat. The Soviets brutalized the capitalists, tsarists, fascists, landlords, and kulaks, while liberating the workers and peasants. The USSR had steady and consistent economic growth, and provided free, high quality education and healthcare, full employment, cheap or free housing, and fantastic infrastructure and city planning that still lasts to this day despite capitalism neglecting it. This rapid development resulted in dramatic democratization of society, reduced disparity, doubling of life expectancy, tripling of functional literacy rates to 99.9%, and much more. Living in the 1930s famine would not have been good, but it was the last major famine outside of wartime because the soviets ended famine in their countries.
Literacy rates, societal guarantees in the 1936 constitution, reports on the healthcare system over time, and more are good sources for these claims.
The USSR brought dramatic democratization to society. First-hand accounts from Statesian journalist Anna Louise Strong in her book This Soviet World describe soviet elections and factory councils in action. Statesian Pat Sloan even wrote Soviet Democracy to describe in detail the system the soviets had built for curious Statesians to read about, and today we have Professor Roland Boer's Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance to reference.
When it comes to social progressivism, the soviet union was among the best out of their peers, so instead we must look at who was actually repressed outside of the norm. In the USSR, it was the capitalist class, the kulaks, the fascists who were repressed. This is out of necessity for any socialist state. When it comes to working class freedoms, however, the soviet union represented a dramatic expansion. Soviet progressivism was documented quite well in Albert Syzmanski's Human Rights in the Soviet Union.
The truth, when judged based on historical evidence and contextualization, is that socialism was the best thing to happen to Russia in the last few centuries, and its absence has been devastating.
Death rates spiked:
And wealth disparity skyrocketed alongside the newly impoverished majority:
Capitalism brought with it skyrocketing poverty rates, drug abuse, prostitution, homelessness, crime rates, and lowered life expectancy. An estimated 7 million people died due to the dissolution of socialism and reintroduction of capitalism, and this is why the large majority of post-soviet citizens regret its fall. A return to socialism is the only path forward for the post-soviet countries. A lot of Eastern European countries were swarmed with western capital during the destruction of socialism, which is what temporarily caused the rise of the far-right in these countries, but in time their problems will no longer be able to be ignored.
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev · 0 pts · 52d
Maxxie@piefed.blahaj.zone · -2 pts · 54d
Fancy_Gecko@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 54d
to over simplify it , Russia is currently fighting the US empire and its cronies through a proxy and maybe directly in the future
humanspiral@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 53d
Reality has a pro russia bias
mrdown@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 52d
.ml
lithiumground@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 52d
Russia is absolutely imperialist, not communist! China is economically imperialist too!
RiverRock@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 52d
Lol, when you know what words mean
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 52d
Russia isn't communist, but it isn't imperialist, as it utterly lacks the finance capital required to do so. China is a socialist state with near total public control of finance, doesn't participate in unequal exchange, doesn't participate in neocolonialism, and doesn't imperialize in general. Trade is not imperialism, nor are loans in general.
reluctant_squidd@lemmy.ca · -18 pts · 54d
I don’t think most people know what communism and socialism or capitalism are, nor do they care to learn.
Communism = USSR
Socialism = Capitalism
Capitalism = good because of trickledown, which its nonsense
I really believe it’s that simple.
Edit: elaborated a bit
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 54d
OP is questioning why the communists are critically supporting the Russian Federation.
reluctant_squidd@lemmy.ca · -6 pts · 54d
I edited my comment to elaborate a bit more, probably while you were typing your response.
Regardless, Communism != Russia. That was my point.
davel@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 54d
Literally no one is confusing post-Soviet Russia with communism.
reluctant_squidd@lemmy.ca · -11 pts · 54d
Except lemmy.ml apparently.
If they are communists, but support Russia, then they either are not actually communists and don’t understand what that term actually means, or they are communists and don’t understand Russia.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 54d
Communists critically support the Russian Federation, supporting it's anti-imperialist role and strong allyship with socialist states, while seeking a return to socialism. Communists also support Palestine, Iran, etc, and these aren't socialist either.
reluctant_squidd@lemmy.ca · -7 pts · 54d
My point is that people in general don’t understand these differences. You might. Others who read might, but the larger portion of people have no idea past the latest post-WW2 propaganda posters in the early to mid-1900s.
Left wing, Communism = bad. Right wing, communism = good.
Meanwhile very few people, including myself until recently, who actually care what they entail.
What the propaganda machines force at people for these ideals vs. What they actually mean are very different.
The people who benefit most from all the confusion is the Capitalists. Because either true communal to social living of any kind would threaten their reign. Funny that they are also the ones running the propaganda machines no?
Must be a confidence…
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 54d
I think you need to re-center yourself on which community we are talking about. OP is talking about Lemmy.ml, not the general western public. We need to understand this based on the audience, and Lemmy.ml is largely communist.
davel@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 54d
We understand both communism and contemporary Russia. We also understand “critical support.”
reluctant_squidd@lemmy.ca · -8 pts · 54d
“ProleWiki is a collaborative, anti-imperialist, and Marxist–Leninist encyclopedia. Founded in September 2020, it provides information from a communist perspective to counter what its editors describe as liberal hegemony in Western society. It is not neutral, but instead acts as an expressly partisan educational resource for the international proletarian movement.”
So your rebuttal to me applying non-partisan critical thinking to your delusion, is to quote a wiki full of delusion.
Ok…
davel@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 54d
What I did was give you a definition for the term “critical support,” because most people aren’t familiar with the term.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 54d
The USSR was socialist and run by a communist party. The Russian Federation is capitalist, but critically supported by communists for its anti-imperialist role. That's all it is.