Oxford Union debates the Jewish Question

Relevant article: Arabs and Muslims: The Real Victims of Modern Antisemitism

Antisemitism is no longer a legitimate form of racism. Anti-Arab bias, is a legitimate form of racism, meaning you don’t have to hide it. In most forms of racism you have to pretend you’re not a racist, so you have to pretend ‘I’m not antisemitic, I’m not anti-Black.’ You may be, but you don’t advertise it. Anti-Arab racism, you’re allowed to advertise. This was way before September 11 […] you see it in films, in books, in attitudes, it’s just not even hidden. Nobody will come out and say, ‘I’m an anti-Arab racist,’ but it’s everywhere, and every Muslim or Arab in the country knows it.

63 points · 16 comments · view on lemmy.world

16 Comments

Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 34d (11 replies)

Hey, I would be very careful repeating this one. "This House Believes" is the format used for debates at Oxford Union, which cover some incredibly difficult topics. The current president of the Oxford Union, and the person debating against alt-right chud Tommy Robinson in this debate (and who at the end and by popular vote won the debate in opposition to Tommy & his Islamophobia) is Arwa Elrayess, the first Palestinian president of Oxford Union and a very prominent critic of Israel. Additionally, since her election she has been exhaustively targeted by pro-israel fuckwits with an incredibly transparent and comprehensive misinformation campaign.

Also yes, they have somewhat famously been critical of Israel in response to the current genocide:

On 28 November 2024, the Oxford Union hosted a debate with the motion "This house believes Israel is an apartheid state responsible for genocide", voting in favour of the motion by a margin of 278–59. The debate sparked significant discourse from both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli groups.

Rugnjr@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 15 pts · 34d

This. I know of the following debates:

  • This house believes women's colleges should be razed to the ground

  • This house believes in athletic over aesthetic education

  • This House will in no circumstances fight for its King and Country (passed by quite a large margin !)

  • Whether the House should refuse to view anything at all with concern, apprehension or alarm

  • Whether conventional morality was of any use to this House

  • This house believes the Church should be disestablished and disendowed

They've been ragebaity for over a century to basically everyone. The whole point is to debate edgy topics.

geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 34d (9 replies)

I 100% guarantees you that absolutely no way would the debate topic be allowed if you changed the word Islamic to Jewish.

People are so conditioned to see the title as normal because of their media condioning to normalize racism against Muslims.

Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 34d (8 replies)
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 34d (7 replies)

She's in a damned if you do damned if you don't position. If she used her role to ban the debate she'd be called all sorts of names. What I'm saying is that replacing the name Muslim with Jew in the debate title would literally create UK government intervention and cause the debate to be banned. The closest example I can think of is David Irving being banned from a 2001 Oxford debate for Holocaust denial. And that wasn't even a "Jewish Question" debate comparable to this

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/10/education.highereducation

David Triesman, general secretary of the Association of University Teachers, this week warned of an international boycott of the Oxford Union if the event went ahead.

"If the Oxford Union feels compelled to allow him to appear then I must inform you that this would leave me no other option than to call for an academic boycott."

Simon Petar, anti-racist convenor for the National Union of Students, said last night: "Obviously we are extremely pleased by the decision but the real tragedy is that the Oxford Union felt it was acceptable to invite a Holocaust denier to speak in the first place,"

I don't think people realize how hard Chomsky quote from the article in the post applies here.

Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 34d (6 replies)

(heck, you don't need to go back anything like a quarter of a century to find examples of the Oxford Union facing outside pressure over their position on Israel. Though I'd hazard that if outright calling Israel a genocidal apartheid state or the historical precedents like platforming Malcom X or the famous King & Country debate weren't enough to spark an actual government intervention, it's unlikely there's a threshold on any topic that would.)

Again, I understand and agree with what you're saying about the social acceptability of swapping the terms in the title - and it's clear from her remarks that Elrayess does as well, as likely would Chomsky (I will admit though, I don't particularly want to shift conversation away from the ideas expressed by an embattled palestinian-algerian woman in favor of discussing the same ideas but expressed by an american white male jewish pedophile). Additionally, I'd like to point out that Elrayess is the president of the organization that titled the debate and, since she was elected, has been targeted with an endless barrage of attacks ranging from degrading her character to implying her family are outright terrorists and calling for their detention. She's not only already being called all sorts of names, if she had been opposed to or fearful of using that title she simply could have chosen not to. She has all the agency she needs to prevent being placed in this particular "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 34d (5 replies)

Criticism of Israel is allowed, sure, but not going full "Jewish Question" mode. The current timing would be like doing Jewish Question but in 1940. Because it's now during a time period when there's multiple ongoing genocides against primarily Muslim populations backed by the UK to the point they made opposing a genocide against primarily Muslims terrorism

David Irving's antisemitism can also directly be compared to Tommy Robinson but only one of them gets a UK ban.

The limits of Oxford debates have frequently been put in place by the state. Oxford prides itself on having some edgy guests and seeking the limits of "freedom of speech", but when push comes to shove like with David Irving they would never go against the UK government.

Elrayess having to defend her identity instead of having it defended for her by the state is another clear symptom of how tolerated the racism is.

Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 34d (4 replies)

(If you have examples of the Oxford Union being pressured by the UK government I am very interested - the cancellation of David Irving was done, as far as has been reported, at the behest of non-governmental academic groups. The only official I could find associated with the incident was a single member of the House of Lords who expressed his personal disappointment)

Elrayess having to defend her identity instead of having it defended for her by the state is another clear symptom of how tolerated the racism is.

Correct, she is the one defending it. The image that was initially posted implies the organization she heads is putting forward an Islamophobic view, when the reality is that the organization under her leadership once again kept with it's history of consistent support for Palestine and opposition to Israel, in the face of several of the most vocal supporters of the Israeli genocide. In an era where the UK government has been actively criminalizing support for Palestine and where this specific woman has been subjected to a pretty intimidating and transparent campaign to marginalize and silence her and the people around her, it's very worrying that wielding the forum she controls to express far-reaching public support for Palestine is now being considered "not going against the UK government".

geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 33d

Recently Hasan Piker and Cenk Uyghur as lower-tier pressure wouldn't work they pulled out the big guns and went full banhammer

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/03/cenk-uygur-hasan-piker-oxford-union-home-office

crazycraw@crazypeople.online · 7 pts · 34d

why can't the west just be sus of all abrahamic religions then.

make your own anti whatever symposium.

Fancy_Gecko@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 34d

im not surprised by this at all it has always been like this in the west

geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 33d

Aeri@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 32d

Meanwhile I'm suspicious of Christians