War is very expensive though. It makes sense to spend fraction of that on a deterrent and that's one thing EU does really well is to hedge all investments for overall stability. This is more of the same.
What about taxing wealth, while reducing mass taxes like the VAT to finally get people to spend again? Increasing peoples salaries would also help, and capping rent to what it costs to ensure upkeep and needed new construction - i think that would easly do the trick to fill the states coffers and get the economy out of this slump instead of filling the bank accounts of shameless, greedy people. Those will find other ways to enrich themselves, maybe through the defense industry.
Tbf a lot of that spending is to keep relationships with the US. That's kinda the entire shtick of EU is to bind competing parties through global economy and while Russia is an outlier I do think it's mostly a success story.
It's mostly deficit / debt spend. But don't worry, we'll always be able to service debt easily because the USD is standard and in large amounts of demand. Nobody would ever be stupid enough to screw that up and get people to look for alternatives.....oh wait, here's that Trump guy again.
As non American it's always funny to see one of the richest country in the world never have any money for anything but yachts and mcmansions. Have americans checked their couch cushions? There must be 1 healthcare there somewhere.
last time i checked the federal budget in the US was 23% of total GDP, with about 6% of GDP being from new debt. so the rest (17% of GDP) came from taxes. the US does tax, just too little IMO.
Given what Russia is doing, and how the US is bailing on its European allies, it does make sense for Europe to focus a bit more on defense, sad to say.
The US maintains a military the size it does to control the world economy
I’m sure Europe are spending a bit more now but I don’t think we need to worry about our neighbours like Russia, and legitimate defence is cheaper than what the USA does
In Holland the new center-left government proposed a “freedom tax” to fund the army, which was widely supported. They implemented it half heartedly though, so there’s no line of “freedom tax” on your tax report. But the model might definitely work elsewhere
Pretending that military spending is about "protecting your freedoms" is jingoistic (and thus right wing) propaganda.
Also, a few corporations, billionaires, and hectomillionaires get richer every time military spending goes up. Taxing everyone to pay them is a reverse Robin Hood move not in accordance with left wing ideology.
You know, whether you like it or not, there are bad people out there who will attack you if they think you look weak. There's a pecking order to the world and the ones with the big guns think they have to go around and rub some "shithole country" into the dirt ones every 5 years.
I believe that we, as a species and by mutual agreement between peoples, must rid ourselves of weapons in order to defuse and degrade the capabilities of despots and mercenaries. But unilateral disarmament won't work when a few countries think its their civilizational duty to come and murder your mother and extract your resources.
You know, whether you like it or not, there are bad people out there who will attack you if they think you look weak. There's a pecking order to the world and the ones with the big guns think they have to go around and rub some "shithole country" into the dirt ones every 5 years
Fun fact: most of Europe being part of the same military alliances makes the necessary military spending per nation to avoid this MUCH lower than current levels.
Especially when the biggest threat is a country already teetering on the brink of economic and military collapse from overextending itself.
I believe that we, as a species and by mutual agreement between peoples, must rid ourselves of weapons in order to defuse and degrade the capabilities of despots and mercenaries
Agreed.
But unilateral disarmament won't work
Neither will multilateral unnecessary military spending increases.
a few countries think its their civilizational duty to come and murder your mother and extract your resources.
None of which are anywhere near capable of carrying out said "duty" against the full force of two of the biggest military alliances ever, the EU and NATO.
I agree overall. But the irony is that Europe's cooperation with the United States is a major source of instability. So I'd rather see NATO replaced by an international alliance of smaller countries and middle powers or smaller countries that reject aggression and abide by international law.
I also think that the whole "must spend X" obsession largely comes from NATO propaganda which assumed that Europe would use that money to buy weapons from the American MIC. That doesn't invalidate all additional spending, especially if temporary, but I think it's important to recognize the role it has had in shaping the United States (force the poor to join the military) and to vehemently reject that model.
Europe's cooperation with the United States is a major source of instability. So I'd rather see NATO replaced by an international alliance of smaller countries and middle powers or smaller countries that reject aggression and abide by international law.
Couldn't agree more. It's long past time to wean Europe off of dependence on the US of any kind, but especially military and economic.
I also think that the whole "must spend X" obsession largely comes from NATO propaganda which assumed that Europe would use that money to buy weapons from the American MIC.
That and propaganda on behalf of the European MIC, which is also a thing, though a lot smaller.
That doesn't invalidate all additional spending
True, but the arguments for it being necessary not holding water does.
especially if temporary
Yeah, because militaries and the rich people and corporations never make sure that "temporary" subsidies and government contracts become effectively permanent 🙄
48 Comments
MisterNeon@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 10h
I'm an American. Y'all Europeans don't believe the horse shit they got most of my countrymen to accept.
Also, that Janan Ganesh guy looks like a putz.
Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 40 pts · 7h
Defend the continent from who? The teetering regime that has spent the past 5 years drawing the poorest country on the continent to a stalemate?
drmoose@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 55m
War is very expensive though. It makes sense to spend fraction of that on a deterrent and that's one thing EU does really well is to hedge all investments for overall stability. This is more of the same.
Prunebutt@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 1h
And the same regime definetly has the power to rule territory in which it's despised by the majority of the population. /s
ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 9h
Because austerity measures worked so well after the housing bubble burst. 🙄
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 27 pts · 8h
What about taxing wealth, while reducing mass taxes like the VAT to finally get people to spend again? Increasing peoples salaries would also help, and capping rent to what it costs to ensure upkeep and needed new construction - i think that would easly do the trick to fill the states coffers and get the economy out of this slump instead of filling the bank accounts of shameless, greedy people. Those will find other ways to enrich themselves, maybe through the defense industry.
ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one · 14 pts · 7h
And take money away from the hard working Epstein Class!?
WoodScientist@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2h
We should have a 20% annual wealth tax on fortunes over a billion dollars. Staying a billionaire should be like trying to swim up a waterfall.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 2h
Under FDR in 1935, if you made more than $5 million, you paid a 79% tax rate.
poVoq@slrpnk.net · 19 pts · 10h
Only desperate people, right-wing gun nuts and neo-nazis join the army voluntarily, so that sounds about right.
RedGreenBlue@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 7h
Europe could get more for less if they bought less low quality, super expensive, american made, defensive shit.
I hear Ukraine have some interesting and well proven kits for cheap.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 2 pts · 2h
I would assume the Ukrainians are not looking to sell right now.
Tabula_stercore@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2h
License the build in another country and get some of the produce.
drmoose@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 53m
Tbf a lot of that spending is to keep relationships with the US. That's kinda the entire shtick of EU is to bind competing parties through global economy and while Russia is an outlier I do think it's mostly a success story.
OldChicoAle@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 2h
Janan Ganesh wants to suck billionaire dick and lick their boots
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 8h
I normally don't wish death on people, but the author of this hate-piece....
gandalf_der_13te@feddit.org · 2 pts · 2h
you don't need to wish death on him, just for him to follow his own advice and actually go to war
aesthelete@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 4h
In the US we don't really have money for either.
It's mostly deficit / debt spend. But don't worry, we'll always be able to service debt easily because the USD is standard and in large amounts of demand. Nobody would ever be stupid enough to screw that up and get people to look for alternatives.....oh wait, here's that Trump guy again.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 2h
Yeah you do. Your corrupt politicians just keep giving most of it to the rich and powerful, and their corporations.
drmoose@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 58m
As non American it's always funny to see one of the richest country in the world never have any money for anything but yachts and mcmansions. Have americans checked their couch cushions? There must be 1 healthcare there somewhere.
gandalf_der_13te@feddit.org · 2 pts · 2h
last time i checked the federal budget in the US was 23% of total GDP, with about 6% of GDP being from new debt. so the rest (17% of GDP) came from taxes. the US does tax, just too little IMO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget
village604@adultswim.fan · 1 pts · 2h
It's all going as planned.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 1 pts · 2h
Whose plan tho?
kilgore_trout@feddit.it · 9 pts · 1h
«Opinion» pieces are a way for news media to cover their asses.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 52m
No way to make more rich people richer than to sacrifice the underclasses benefits.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 6h
The class war doesn't stop happening if you dont fight back.
jaybone@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 10h
Given what Russia is doing, and how the US is bailing on its European allies, it does make sense for Europe to focus a bit more on defense, sad to say.
The US otoh has no excuse.
dudeface@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 9h
The US maintains a military the size it does to control the world economy
I’m sure Europe are spending a bit more now but I don’t think we need to worry about our neighbours like Russia, and legitimate defence is cheaper than what the USA does
Pollo_Jack@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 44m
Just stop subsidizing the rich, problem solved.
jackintosh@feddit.nl · 5 pts · 1h
In Holland the new center-left government proposed a “freedom tax” to fund the army, which was widely supported. They implemented it half heartedly though, so there’s no line of “freedom tax” on your tax report. But the model might definitely work elsewhere
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 1h
drmoose@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1h
I don't get it. Seems like a very center left thing? You socialize the costs for protecting your freedoms - a freedom tax if you will.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 54m
Pretending that military spending is about "protecting your freedoms" is jingoistic (and thus right wing) propaganda.
Also, a few corporations, billionaires, and hectomillionaires get richer every time military spending goes up. Taxing everyone to pay them is a reverse Robin Hood move not in accordance with left wing ideology.
mirshafie@europe.pub · 0 pts · 44m
You know, whether you like it or not, there are bad people out there who will attack you if they think you look weak. There's a pecking order to the world and the ones with the big guns think they have to go around and rub some "shithole country" into the dirt ones every 5 years.
I believe that we, as a species and by mutual agreement between peoples, must rid ourselves of weapons in order to defuse and degrade the capabilities of despots and mercenaries. But unilateral disarmament won't work when a few countries think its their civilizational duty to come and murder your mother and extract your resources.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 35m
Fun fact: most of Europe being part of the same military alliances makes the necessary military spending per nation to avoid this MUCH lower than current levels.
Especially when the biggest threat is a country already teetering on the brink of economic and military collapse from overextending itself.
Agreed.
Neither will multilateral unnecessary military spending increases.
None of which are anywhere near capable of carrying out said "duty" against the full force of two of the biggest military alliances ever, the EU and NATO.
mirshafie@europe.pub · 1 pts · 21m
I agree overall. But the irony is that Europe's cooperation with the United States is a major source of instability. So I'd rather see NATO replaced by an international alliance of smaller countries and middle powers or smaller countries that reject aggression and abide by international law.
I also think that the whole "must spend X" obsession largely comes from NATO propaganda which assumed that Europe would use that money to buy weapons from the American MIC. That doesn't invalidate all additional spending, especially if temporary, but I think it's important to recognize the role it has had in shaping the United States (force the poor to join the military) and to vehemently reject that model.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 10m
Couldn't agree more. It's long past time to wean Europe off of dependence on the US of any kind, but especially military and economic.
That and propaganda on behalf of the European MIC, which is also a thing, though a lot smaller.
True, but the arguments for it being necessary not holding water does.
Yeah, because militaries and the rich people and corporations never make sure that "temporary" subsidies and government contracts become effectively permanent 🙄
PsycyTuna@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 30m
What center-left government are you talking about? There's not a single leftist party in the government.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works · -9 pts · 10h
We should just nuke Moscow and get it over with. Send one to Tel Aviv while we're at it.
6_Electrons@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 9h
Username fits but insane_comment would be a great username as well lol
realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip · 6 pts · 7h
Great idea, I'm sure they wouldn't just unload their entire nuclear arsenal in response.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 6h
Oh no, I will miss out on decades of rent payments!
I will be a shadow burnt into a wall, and my boss will be so fucking pissed I left him short handed at work.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 1 pts · 2h
I don't even believe Russia is capable of that anymore.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1h
She'll be right.
deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz · 5 pts · 9h
I'm still waiting for Trump to decide to attack Iran with nucular weapon(s)
Polisheocket@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 8h
He still has over 2 years left. Wouldn’t surprise me to do something that stupid
ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one · 4 pts · 7h
Don't forget nuking the whales!
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2h
About damn time.