I consider myself anti-theist. I'm an agnostic atheist because I have seen no reason, evidence, or argument suggesting the existence of any god. It seems far more likely that god is vain human projection and wishful thinking.
Since god is evidently a dangerous falsehood, of course we should keep theism far away from important decision-making. I yearn for a world where grown adults don't pretend that magic is real. It's doing more harm than most people can see. Innocent people suffer and die every day for the baseless beliefs of others.
Gnosticism is the belief that knowledge can be revealed to us (e.g. from a divine source), in addition to being discovered. Therefore agnosticism is the lack of such belief in revelation leaving us only with discovery.
This depends on how you define both atheism and agnosticism
(Gnosis is the ancient Greek word for “knowledge“ and agnosis the ancient Greek word for the lack of knowledge/the opposite of knowledge)
Another definition of agnostic atheism is one who does not believe in a God, but cannot know for sure there is no God, because such a thing is unknowable (as one cannot disprove a negative), whereas gnostic atheism is one who does not believe in a God, and believes they do know there is no God for lack of any evidence, or due to some other evidence which they believe proves such a thing impossible.
How are you agnostic (unsure if god exists or not) , then saying "god is a dangerous falsehood"?
That's why I used "evidently". We have zero evidence suggesting the existence of any god. We have endless evidence that humans make shit up, and that the specific lie that a god exists has led to needless death and suffering.
I am an agnostic atheist willing to die fighting any selfish, stupid person who pretends there is a god.
According to wikipedia: Secularism is the principle of seeking to conduct human affairs based on naturalistic considerations, uninvolved with religion.
Separation of church and state is an important facet of it, but not all of society is government.
I know the difference, but I read a lot. I'd assume atheists tend to have come to their position of atheism (as opposed to nontheism or agnosticism) through introspection and philosophy. And thus would encounter secularism and antitheism as separate ideas.
After the new atheist movement and the rise of atheism as a (minor) fad, I may be wrong. But yeah, I assume that atheists care about their understanding of the nature of the cosmos.
I think there's a lot of brash young people who are looking to be contrarian and find an identity that they were missing, but don't have the guidance and manners to be able to carry themselves in a more diplomatic fashion. I imagine they get there similarly to you, but grab the identity too quickly and attempt to embody the most extreme form they can.
Some probably do come from families or communities where religion was used to be hostile toward them for whatever reason or their desires did not match the requirements that the faith that was hoisted onto them.
Thus, when they left the faith, they had feelings of vengeance. Which is understandable, but continuing the cycle of unpleasantry to a different group of people doesn't help anyone.
Thus, when they find atheism, they immediately go for anti-theism at the same time.
I think for me, I respect people that behave with the same attitude on both sides; you need to interact with and live in the secular , physical world and the ideas of the beyond are for everyone to keep private and respect the personal conduct of others.
Secular ethics help align everyone in a fair public moral structure and if your personal ethics give you additional obligations, that's on you.
Descriptivism vs prescriptivism is going to play a role here.
I think all those terms are going to have hella blurry definitions.
Atheist is going to be the blurriest since even people who aren’t against the possibility of a god(s)’s existence refer to themselves with it. As do people who aren’t against “spiritual” but don’t believe in deities. Etc.
As for secularism, that’s a term that can be used to describe both personal religion/philosophy and/or political stance on religion in relation to society/governance. Not to mention that there are several different “secular” models of looking at the universe so there will be diversity within this term and some overlap with the other terms you mentioned
Also anti-theist as in:
against the idea of the existence of deities?
against the worship of deities regardless of existence?
against theistic religion?
against religions/spiritualities in general?
against letting people believe in gods?
that we should fight against and/or kill gods? (The best option ofc)
Do people have the same understanding of the words as you do? I don’t think anyone here can answer that because it depends on what definitions you’re personally holding to.
Do you think the average Protestant online community member understand the difference between Lutheranism, Methodism, and Baptist-ism? Or the difference between First Baptist, Freewill Baptist, and Primitive Baptist?
I mean the differences are useful at times, but mostly they don't really matter.
17 Comments
anotherhoffmann@feddit.org · 8 pts · 3d
I am not sure I know the difference. Could you, or someone else, enlighten me?
kboos1@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 3d
Over simplification-
Secularism - separation of religion from government
Atheism - belief that there is no God/God's or afterlife and sometimes disputes/argues against the existence
Ant-theism - actively working against religion
tacosanonymous@mander.xyz · 17 pts · 3d
Isn’t that third one when you believe that god is an ant?
Hominine@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 3d
Jesus grabs us with his mandibles and rotates his thorax while plunging his stinger of love repeatedly into our flesh. Praise be.
Whostosay@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 2d
Praise be
SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today · 11 pts · 3d
I consider myself anti-theist. I'm an agnostic atheist because I have seen no reason, evidence, or argument suggesting the existence of any god. It seems far more likely that god is vain human projection and wishful thinking.
Since god is evidently a dangerous falsehood, of course we should keep theism far away from important decision-making. I yearn for a world where grown adults don't pretend that magic is real. It's doing more harm than most people can see. Innocent people suffer and die every day for the baseless beliefs of others.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 3d
How are you agnostic (unsure if god exists or not) , then saying "god is a dangerous falsehood"?
frisbird@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 3d
That's not what agnostic means.
Atheism is theism plus the prefix "a".
Agnosticism is gnosticism plus the prefix "a".
Gnosticism is the belief that knowledge can be revealed to us (e.g. from a divine source), in addition to being discovered. Therefore agnosticism is the lack of such belief in revelation leaving us only with discovery.
eurodyne@piefed.world · 4 pts · 3d
This depends on how you define both atheism and agnosticism
(Gnosis is the ancient Greek word for “knowledge“ and agnosis the ancient Greek word for the lack of knowledge/the opposite of knowledge)
Another definition of agnostic atheism is one who does not believe in a God, but cannot know for sure there is no God, because such a thing is unknowable (as one cannot disprove a negative), whereas gnostic atheism is one who does not believe in a God, and believes they do know there is no God for lack of any evidence, or due to some other evidence which they believe proves such a thing impossible.
This goes into more detail:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism
As with any belief system (or lack thereof) it can become a tangled mess of epistemology and philosophy and even attempts at tautology.
SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 1d
That's why I used "evidently". We have zero evidence suggesting the existence of any god. We have endless evidence that humans make shit up, and that the specific lie that a god exists has led to needless death and suffering.
I am an agnostic atheist willing to die fighting any selfish, stupid person who pretends there is a god.
diverging@piefed.social · 5 pts · 3d
Atheism doesn't require a belief that no gods exist.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 2d
According to wikipedia: Secularism is the principle of seeking to conduct human affairs based on naturalistic considerations, uninvolved with religion.
Separation of church and state is an important facet of it, but not all of society is government.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 2d
I know the difference, but I read a lot. I'd assume atheists tend to have come to their position of atheism (as opposed to nontheism or agnosticism) through introspection and philosophy. And thus would encounter secularism and antitheism as separate ideas.
After the new atheist movement and the rise of atheism as a (minor) fad, I may be wrong. But yeah, I assume that atheists care about their understanding of the nature of the cosmos.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
I think there's a lot of brash young people who are looking to be contrarian and find an identity that they were missing, but don't have the guidance and manners to be able to carry themselves in a more diplomatic fashion. I imagine they get there similarly to you, but grab the identity too quickly and attempt to embody the most extreme form they can.
Some probably do come from families or communities where religion was used to be hostile toward them for whatever reason or their desires did not match the requirements that the faith that was hoisted onto them.
Thus, when they left the faith, they had feelings of vengeance. Which is understandable, but continuing the cycle of unpleasantry to a different group of people doesn't help anyone.
Thus, when they find atheism, they immediately go for anti-theism at the same time.
I think for me, I respect people that behave with the same attitude on both sides; you need to interact with and live in the secular , physical world and the ideas of the beyond are for everyone to keep private and respect the personal conduct of others.
Secular ethics help align everyone in a fair public moral structure and if your personal ethics give you additional obligations, that's on you.
AnarchoEngineer@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 1d
Descriptivism vs prescriptivism is going to play a role here.
I think all those terms are going to have hella blurry definitions.
Atheist is going to be the blurriest since even people who aren’t against the possibility of a god(s)’s existence refer to themselves with it. As do people who aren’t against “spiritual” but don’t believe in deities. Etc.
As for secularism, that’s a term that can be used to describe both personal religion/philosophy and/or political stance on religion in relation to society/governance. Not to mention that there are several different “secular” models of looking at the universe so there will be diversity within this term and some overlap with the other terms you mentioned
Also anti-theist as in:
Do people have the same understanding of the words as you do? I don’t think anyone here can answer that because it depends on what definitions you’re personally holding to.
SnailMagnitude@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 21h
Much of it is kinda up to the user.
Atheist can just be someone not paying tribute to the local dieties and agnostic just someone who has not yet attained gnosis.
Lots of peeps employing it when ragequitting the Nicene machine of late but that's just one angle.
bss03@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 1d
Do you think the average Protestant online community member understand the difference between Lutheranism, Methodism, and Baptist-ism? Or the difference between First Baptist, Freewill Baptist, and Primitive Baptist?
I mean the differences are useful at times, but mostly they don't really matter.