It's honestly horrifying in ways I find hard to describe seeing people so close in time to a genocide perpetrated against them being so fucking blase about one done in their name.
I'm technically Jewish (mother was), though no religious affiliation. Every single fucking day is a new trove of horrors out of Israel. And zionists LOVE it.
This post is saying you are complicit. Hasan is right. It doesn't matter if it's 20% or 80%, the ones who are against it are still allies and shouldn't be tarred with the same brush as zionists.
Given the history of zionism and the outright cooperation between its leadership and Hitler, I guess I should be more ashamed it took me so long to realize they were always the bad guys.
I'm just super excited when the whole 'support Israel or else' shtick ends and REAL antisemitism comes back in a truly awful way. All while tens if not hundreds of thousands of innocents are dead from just recent Israeli genocide.
And even if they were mostly anti-Zionist, this wouldn't change ANYTHING. Just because a religious group largely believes so doesn't give them the right to commit genocide in the first place. And this much focus on trying not to hurt the feelings of an incredibly privileged population in Western society just takes attention away from Palestinians who are ACTUALLY suffering.
It's not about conflating the two. It's about denying the relation between the two as if there is none. Bending over backwards to say the Jewish community doesn't support Israel when the overwhelming majority does. It's denying what those Jews believe and inserting your own preferred narrative for them. Because there is a very strong relation between the (especially religiously) Jewish institutions and Zionism. Saying that there isn't is just plain false.
Can I just say, takes like this fucking piss me off. As some one who had relatives who grew up in the third reich I just want to say that I do believe lots of Jews are responsible for what is happening in Israel. Just like lots of Germans were responsible for what happened in the third reich, to pretend otherwise is ridiculous. Does that mean that all Jews are? No. Or that people should be collectively punished? No. But to pretend that there isn't something really really wrong going on in the Jewish community right now is bat shit crazy, and I'm sick of having Jewish people complain about every negative comment they hear about themselves and demanding that people clarify their position. I feel like saying fuck Jews is a completely valid statement right now without having to add a hundred sub clauses as to why you're saying it.
Do you think after this genocide that we are going to be watching 60 years of movies where guys in IDF uniforms are heartless bad guys? Or have tons of media where you get to mow down endless amounts of NPCs in IDF uniforms? Probably not. As some one who comes from that part of the world do you think it was comfortable for me to constantly see people who spoke the language I speak just constantly being referred to as the bad guys? No, it wasn't did the Nazis deserve it? Yes. Why? Because the Nazis fucking sucked.
Hell the way it's looking and the amount of fucking capitulating the American left are doing right now I don't even know if some of the people responsible for this shit will even go to trial, so you know what? Fuck Jews, just like people said fuck Germans, fuck Serbs, Fuck Hutus (lol jk most white people won't even take the time to remember that one) fuck people who are genocidal, and fuck the people who stood by like cowards and said nothing or cheered it on because they thought they were above the law. Israel has ruined so many peoples lives. Yes there are tons of christian Zionists and fuck them as well, but guess what people have been saying fuck Christianity for ages, and they aren't getting their asses kicked having their careers ruined, being black listed, or being put in jail for saying it.
Are there bad anti semites who are using this genocide as an excuse to to freely express their anti semitism. Sure but do you know what didn't help? Having a bunch of shitty Zionists completely silence the left wing opposition. Plenty of Jews made terrible choices which lead us to this point in history and they are responsible whether that hurts your feelings or not.
Or have tons of media where you get to mow down endless amounts of NPCs in IDF uniforms?
Considering a game "Return to Castle Goldstein" is certainly something to mull about.
Ethically the same as the Wolfenstein games I had a lot of fun with (as a German, no less), but I still wouldn't want to touch that with a ten foot pole.
Not at all. There should be no collective punishment. There shouldn't be any people getting innocent people getting hurt no matter how horrible the things they supported are. Should some people have to deal with the fucked up shit they did? Yes.
Let's see if Bibi and the genocide gang face any repercussions for what they did. Until then, fuck those Jews. Part of the problem as to why shit in society has gotten so bad is because a culture of lawlessness has been flourishing. Any society that reaches that point is sick. Sorry if your feelings are hurt, but all of this could have been stopped a long long looong time ago. You do realise that Israel is trying to start an enormous war and invade every neighbor they have right? You do realise that Israel has threatened the world with nuclear annihilation multiple times right? The last 30 years of international politics has been crime after crime after crime. Followed by poor decision making of world leaders everywhere. Nothing needed to get this bad. Humanity has collectively failed itself.
Edit
Also how the fuck do you know I'm Jewish or not? How the fuck do you know if I got Jews in my family or not? Gtfo, I'm sorry if you're feelings are hurt and if you're struggling to deal with the fucked up shit that's going on. But so is everybody else.
It's like saying "fuck white people" if 85% of them supported Apartheid South Africa and you going "actually that's woke racist".
The difference between you and LemsGhost is the level of oppression you ascribe to Jews. The closer people are to the Palestinian cause the less they believe Jews are some kind of oppressed group. This is why you will find people from countries like Lebanon and Palestine never bothering to make any such difference. They see the overwhelming majority of Jews straight up supporting the genocide of their own people and the ones that "don't" are often hurting their cause by tone-policing the movement.
You really need to start seeing Jews similar to white people who are using their position of privilege to oppress others almost unanimously, not some massively oppressed minority that needs special treatment because they're in imminent danger of a second Holocaust.
No just no you're wrong you're saying I'm wrong but saying I'm right but you don't like the language fuck you. That's you're line of argument. I'm not a politician I should be aloud to express myself. The people who get offended by the truth said in the wrong way are fools. If you demand a polite form of what I wrote look for academic texts on the history of zionism. I agree not all jews are zionists and not all jews are culpable but woke is a culture war term. I invented it, it was used to market things it's completely fabricated. It was designed to divide people and uphold certain class structures "those who say the right thing in the right way are okay those who say the right thing in the wrong way are bad" that's not how the truth works. Being rude isn't a crime and if you think it is go to bluesky I heard the rude are censored there. We are at a critical point in human history I Have No Mouth I Must Scream was not a fiction book.
No, all that's fine as long as you clearly state that you're not implying that being Jewish makes you a bad person or partially responsible for genocide.
Because that's what it sounds like you're implying. And if it is, then that is a logically and morally wrong thing to imply.
The problem is that people aren't allowed to address the overwhelming support for Israel amongst the Jewish community as if that's "hating all Jews".
It's a thing that needs to be addressed and fixed. Synagogues are selling stolen Palestinian houses and people are being called antisemitic for protesting outside of those Synagogues because "that's antisemitic".
The problem is that people aren't allowed to address the overwhelming support for Israel amongst the Jewish community as if that's "hating all Jews".
Of course we are. We can say "there is too much support for Zionism among the Jewish community." As you say, this is a matter of numbers, and anti-zionist Jews will agree.
But that's very different from saying "Jews support genocide." That's conflating all Jews, ignoring the strong anti-zionist Jewish voices, and opening the doors to our opponents to call us antisemitic.
25 Comments
dethedrus@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 3d
It's honestly horrifying in ways I find hard to describe seeing people so close in time to a genocide perpetrated against them being so fucking blase about one done in their name.
I'm technically Jewish (mother was), though no religious affiliation. Every single fucking day is a new trove of horrors out of Israel. And zionists LOVE it.
HOW?!?!
Malica@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 3d
They decided Palestinians aren't people and therefore it's ok to do what you like to them.
dethedrus@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 2d
They adopted nazi philosophies, language and policies without a moment of introspection.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 2d
Well, yeah, this is different. /S
dethedrus@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 2d
Yeah, 'cause it's what their god wants, so it's totally cool. Trust me, bro!
thanksforreading@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 2d
This post is saying you are complicit. Hasan is right. It doesn't matter if it's 20% or 80%, the ones who are against it are still allies and shouldn't be tarred with the same brush as zionists.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 2d
Who would have thought that the lesson of the Holocaust would be to "Pay It Forward?"
dethedrus@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 2d
Given the history of zionism and the outright cooperation between its leadership and Hitler, I guess I should be more ashamed it took me so long to realize they were always the bad guys.
I'm just super excited when the whole 'support Israel or else' shtick ends and REAL antisemitism comes back in a truly awful way. All while tens if not hundreds of thousands of innocents are dead from just recent Israeli genocide.
Dreamer@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 3d
Jewish settlers stole my house. It’s not my fault they’re Jewish.
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 3d
Gonna leave this one here
dreamy@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 3d
And even if they were mostly anti-Zionist, this wouldn't change ANYTHING. Just because a religious group largely believes so doesn't give them the right to commit genocide in the first place. And this much focus on trying not to hurt the feelings of an incredibly privileged population in Western society just takes attention away from Palestinians who are ACTUALLY suffering.
NewDark@lemmy.today · -2 pts · 4d
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 4d
It's not about conflating the two. It's about denying the relation between the two as if there is none. Bending over backwards to say the Jewish community doesn't support Israel when the overwhelming majority does. It's denying what those Jews believe and inserting your own preferred narrative for them. Because there is a very strong relation between the (especially religiously) Jewish institutions and Zionism. Saying that there isn't is just plain false.
New banger just dropped: Debunking Zeteo’s Article “Conflating Jews with Israel Is Dangerous”
LemsGhost@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 3d
Can I just say, takes like this fucking piss me off. As some one who had relatives who grew up in the third reich I just want to say that I do believe lots of Jews are responsible for what is happening in Israel. Just like lots of Germans were responsible for what happened in the third reich, to pretend otherwise is ridiculous. Does that mean that all Jews are? No. Or that people should be collectively punished? No. But to pretend that there isn't something really really wrong going on in the Jewish community right now is bat shit crazy, and I'm sick of having Jewish people complain about every negative comment they hear about themselves and demanding that people clarify their position. I feel like saying fuck Jews is a completely valid statement right now without having to add a hundred sub clauses as to why you're saying it.
Do you think after this genocide that we are going to be watching 60 years of movies where guys in IDF uniforms are heartless bad guys? Or have tons of media where you get to mow down endless amounts of NPCs in IDF uniforms? Probably not. As some one who comes from that part of the world do you think it was comfortable for me to constantly see people who spoke the language I speak just constantly being referred to as the bad guys? No, it wasn't did the Nazis deserve it? Yes. Why? Because the Nazis fucking sucked.
Hell the way it's looking and the amount of fucking capitulating the American left are doing right now I don't even know if some of the people responsible for this shit will even go to trial, so you know what? Fuck Jews, just like people said fuck Germans, fuck Serbs, Fuck Hutus (lol jk most white people won't even take the time to remember that one) fuck people who are genocidal, and fuck the people who stood by like cowards and said nothing or cheered it on because they thought they were above the law. Israel has ruined so many peoples lives. Yes there are tons of christian Zionists and fuck them as well, but guess what people have been saying fuck Christianity for ages, and they aren't getting their asses kicked having their careers ruined, being black listed, or being put in jail for saying it.
Are there bad anti semites who are using this genocide as an excuse to to freely express their anti semitism. Sure but do you know what didn't help? Having a bunch of shitty Zionists completely silence the left wing opposition. Plenty of Jews made terrible choices which lead us to this point in history and they are responsible whether that hurts your feelings or not.
RaphaelSchmitz@feddit.org · 2 pts · 2d
Considering a game "Return to Castle Goldstein" is certainly something to mull about.
Ethically the same as the Wolfenstein games I had a lot of fun with (as a German, no less), but I still wouldn't want to touch that with a ten foot pole.
LemsGhost@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 2d
Dude I'm not in the Nazi rabbit hole no idea what it is.
NewDark@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 3d
LemsGhost@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 3d
Not at all. There should be no collective punishment. There shouldn't be any people getting innocent people getting hurt no matter how horrible the things they supported are. Should some people have to deal with the fucked up shit they did? Yes.
Let's see if Bibi and the genocide gang face any repercussions for what they did. Until then, fuck those Jews. Part of the problem as to why shit in society has gotten so bad is because a culture of lawlessness has been flourishing. Any society that reaches that point is sick. Sorry if your feelings are hurt, but all of this could have been stopped a long long looong time ago. You do realise that Israel is trying to start an enormous war and invade every neighbor they have right? You do realise that Israel has threatened the world with nuclear annihilation multiple times right? The last 30 years of international politics has been crime after crime after crime. Followed by poor decision making of world leaders everywhere. Nothing needed to get this bad. Humanity has collectively failed itself.
Edit
Also how the fuck do you know I'm Jewish or not? How the fuck do you know if I got Jews in my family or not? Gtfo, I'm sorry if you're feelings are hurt and if you're struggling to deal with the fucked up shit that's going on. But so is everybody else.
NewDark@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 3d
LemsGhost@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 3d
You're the one saying I'm using woke what ever that means to hide my racism. Sorry that I showed some consideration. /s
NewDark@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 3d
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 2d
It's like saying "fuck white people" if 85% of them supported Apartheid South Africa and you going "actually that's woke racist".
The difference between you and LemsGhost is the level of oppression you ascribe to Jews. The closer people are to the Palestinian cause the less they believe Jews are some kind of oppressed group. This is why you will find people from countries like Lebanon and Palestine never bothering to make any such difference. They see the overwhelming majority of Jews straight up supporting the genocide of their own people and the ones that "don't" are often hurting their cause by tone-policing the movement.
You really need to start seeing Jews similar to white people who are using their position of privilege to oppress others almost unanimously, not some massively oppressed minority that needs special treatment because they're in imminent danger of a second Holocaust.
LemsGhost@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 2d
No just no you're wrong you're saying I'm wrong but saying I'm right but you don't like the language fuck you. That's you're line of argument. I'm not a politician I should be aloud to express myself. The people who get offended by the truth said in the wrong way are fools. If you demand a polite form of what I wrote look for academic texts on the history of zionism. I agree not all jews are zionists and not all jews are culpable but woke is a culture war term. I invented it, it was used to market things it's completely fabricated. It was designed to divide people and uphold certain class structures "those who say the right thing in the right way are okay those who say the right thing in the wrong way are bad" that's not how the truth works. Being rude isn't a crime and if you think it is go to bluesky I heard the rude are censored there. We are at a critical point in human history I Have No Mouth I Must Scream was not a fiction book.
Alwaysnownevernotme@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 4d
So is the implication that we can't talk about the surveys, tangible and moral support, or the constant hasbara, or we're Nazis?
SmoothOperator@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 4d
No, all that's fine as long as you clearly state that you're not implying that being Jewish makes you a bad person or partially responsible for genocide.
Because that's what it sounds like you're implying. And if it is, then that is a logically and morally wrong thing to imply.
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 4d
The problem is that people aren't allowed to address the overwhelming support for Israel amongst the Jewish community as if that's "hating all Jews".
It's a thing that needs to be addressed and fixed. Synagogues are selling stolen Palestinian houses and people are being called antisemitic for protesting outside of those Synagogues because "that's antisemitic".
SmoothOperator@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3d
Of course we are. We can say "there is too much support for Zionism among the Jewish community." As you say, this is a matter of numbers, and anti-zionist Jews will agree.
But that's very different from saying "Jews support genocide." That's conflating all Jews, ignoring the strong anti-zionist Jewish voices, and opening the doors to our opponents to call us antisemitic.