I Attended The Alberta Separatist Rally. What I Saw Wasn’t a Movement of Freedom — It Was a Cult Movement of Anger, Grievance and Desperation

https://prairiesexposed.substack.com/p/i-attended-the-alberta-separatist

50 points · 23 comments · view on lemmy.world

23 Comments

danielquinn@lemmy.ca · 22 pts · 2d (4 replies)

Well duh. That's what fuels all of these right-wing movements.

Rat_in_a_hat@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 2d (2 replies)

Totally agree! But the scary part that the article highlights is that they are willing to crawl over broken glass to vote, because so far, there has been no way to counter this type of populism.

They're angry about things that we obviously can't/don't want to change (trans rights, non-whites, etc.) and their troubles are blamed on other people.

I think the article does a great job, not in fear mongering, but in really highlighting and giving food-for-thought that disenfranchised people still have the power to vote, so Canadians shouldn't be complacent or apathetic. And the other point is that angry people are looking for an outlet to their anger, grifters are taking advantage of it, and how can we avert such a big part of the population getting roped into it.

danielquinn@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 2d

That's the thing: they're not angry about trans rights & immigrants. They're angry about the same things that the left is angry about: the cost of living and wealth inequality. The difference is that they're being told that trans people and immigrants are to blame.

Auli@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 1d

And they're going to win. Might not be this time but they keep going and going that they eventually get what they want. The left doesn't mobilize like them and doesn't take them serious enough and that is a problem.

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 1d

But Canada supports this. ALL the "Think Tanks" are in Alberta and funded by the US Foundations like Atlas and Koch. We grant these organization tax free status, but do not require them to declare how they are funded. The Canadian Foundation of Taxpayers, ironically, does not pay taxes. In Canada, an MP is not required to even declare if they are a US citizen, like Andrew Scheer, Party leader in 2025 and fake insurance broker, who said he would drop his US citizenship when he ran for PM and lost.

a9249@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 1d (6 replies)

It's an american psyop.

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 1d

Alberta is an American psyop.

orioler25@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 1d (4 replies)

Kind of, but I think calling that exceptionalizes this in a way which occludes the preexisting values and attitudes that it would not be possible without. Since this is something that is, frankly, an inevitable result of the rabid rationalization of the fossil fuel industry in Canada -- itself a consequence of the capitalistic, settler-colonial perceptions of land and space -- it is difficult to say this is a psyop just because US capital has a vested interest in this particular case; along with every capitalist enterprise in Canada. Just because we can link this to say, US social media algos and their governmental associations, that doesn't mean that was necessary for this development to happen, or even a primary cause.

I think people in Canada just find it comforting to think that the imperialism is only from the outside, but we live on occupied territory.

a9249@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 15h (3 replies)

If that were true would it not be BC wanting to separate with its huge first nations population? and not Alberta? the province with a tiny population and literally noting else going for it except its massive oil reserves? Besides, the Americans have fucked-up literally every other oil-rich country in the world for their hunger its not a stretch to say the entire kick towards Alberta separation is almost entirely an American propaganda fabrication.

orioler25@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 13h

Could you explain what you think my comment was about? I'm not sure how this is supposed to relate.

I said that the common settler-colonial culture and interests of the US and Canada makes it difficult to argue something like this, which is so consistent with the values and worldview we know these states enforce on settlers, is some kind of "psyop." Psyops are a real thing, but the nature of its use online has greatly distorted the term's meaning, which is fundamentally an operation of some sort, and that means the commenter I'm responding attributed this political development to something intentional despite those shared values and not cooperative with them. Canada similarly has a vested interest in the fossil fuel industry as well as any capitalist ventures, so suggesting that a psyop would even be necessary for this to work is, honestly, ignorant. I think they and many other Canadians make this conflation because of the role that US social media has played in disinformation over the past decade of these fascist movements, but they by no means created these politics as they are strongly consistent with preexisting white American settler values.

If you read further in that thread (edit: it appears I misremembered what thread that was under, but this explains enough for this comment) you'll see that I also explained that the explicit intent of political movements like this aren't necessarily the authentic or "real" intent. So, it is also not accurate to try to explain this from the starting point that they actually want to seperate; especially so since it is obviously a bad idea. Another common mistake on here is people just accepting that others are dumber than them rather than questioning if they understand those other people sufficiently to make that call.

On top of all that, yes, the US is imperialistic, and Canada is a huge supporter of that exactly because they are both imperialistic. Yes, it is a huge stretch to say this is something manufacturered by US propaganda when it is so much more easily explained as contributory to an overall consistent fascist political shift facilitated by both or either imperial power over the past two decades in Alberta (if not the past century). Too many of you think an association or contribution is an explanation, but it is not.

Corvid_Moon@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 13h (1 reply)

I agree.

It's true that there has always been a fringe separatist/anti-Canada group in Alberta (possibly in every province and territory), but they've never been as prominent as they are now; not even close.

This is a product of them being fed misinformation and disinformation from far-right and US media over decades, which accelerated during the pandemic, and is now being actively funded by the US itself with the help of the UCP & Friends.

So while there always has been (and maybe always will be) a fringe group of seppies in the province, they've been given a massive boost by the US, so much that they now pose an actual threat to Alberta and, resultantly, to Canada as a whole.

orioler25@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 9h

Could you explain how it is a threat or massively more popular than it used to be when it is still this much of a minority of people who subscribe to it (apparently, less than 25%)? Could you then explain how you know it is a "psyop" since, as you said, this isn't even remotely new and more of a result of the latent settler-colonial perceptions of land use that Albertan settlers subscribe to? Even more, why would it even be necessary to conduct such a psyop when there is already such a favourable attitude of those settlers toward fossil fuel when the Canadian state allows this kind of material dependency on it?

Even even more, when exactly did it become a "psyop?" How do you draw a line between this "psyop" and three quarters of a century of western alienation and reliance on the fossil fuel industry?Was this a psyop when the seperatist movement gained ground in 2015 when Trudeau was first elected? What about following the 1980s oil glut and the dismissal of Albertan speratism by Pierre Trudeau? Social media algos promote this industry and the fascism it requires to exist because they are designed around capitalist imperatives by companies that are, guess what, capitalist. So, what then distinguishes this as a "psyop" from every other fucking thing Canadians do in support of capitalism?

Be honest, did you ask a single one of these questions to yourself before typing this comment?

I think a lot of Canadian liberals are having to contrive these kinds of narratives because they are deeply uncomfortable with the reality of how cooperative and intertwined Canadian and American imperialism is, or how much they rationalized their own subscription to those values when it benefited them. Now that they apparently just realized it was bad the whole time, they're making up some bullshit excuse that somehow removes any responsibility by Canadians to address the consequences of their own participation in that imperialism.

likebudda@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 1d

Are they sure they didn't go to a MAGA rally?

funkreddit@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 2d

MCGA???

Smaile@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 1d (5 replies)

It's why I know the movement will fail.

orioler25@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 1d (4 replies)

I mean, it'd be awesome if political movements failed just because they're bad and the people who subscribe to them are miserable; or that they'd succeed if they were good and the people passionate and convicted.

Smaile@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 1d (3 replies)

No like, their poleing suggest it's failling since 75% of Albertans already said they not leave Canada in quite a few poles.

kent_eh@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 1d

Even still, complacency in the assumption that it will simply fail is a big concern.

Don't assume it will fail, make sure it does by voting against it in the referendum.

orioler25@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 1d (1 reply)

That's fine, but the point of this kind of political movement is likely not to actually pass a referendum right now, but to disrupt whatever else is going on to hinder fossil fuel extraction. Even more, failing one time isn't the end of movement like this which relies on being an "underdog."

It is obvious that it would he bad for Alberta to become a landlocked state between two imperial powers, so it's silly to presume that whomever is organizing this is just stupid rather than that they have different goals than what you anticipate.

Smaile@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 1d

Oh

Ulrich_the_Old@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 13h

Yeah the maple maga are like that. They really belong in texas or florida.

nik282000@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 2d

shocked_kirk.gif

humanspiral@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 11h

rally often appeared to be far less about explaining what an independent Alberta would actually look like and more about listing everything its supporters believe is wrong with Canada.

Canada would do well to seize all assets of separationist organizers for being foreign funded traitors. Canada should seize a corridor of formerly federal crown land gifted to Alberta, and Danielle Smith should not be treated as a Canadian.

That said, the foreign funded traitors do not have an agenda of a prosperous independent Alberta. Instead they would sell Alberta as a Venezuelan colony to the US, or at best Puerto RIco status. The US is not going to give Albertans prosperity and freedom anymore than they will gift it to Ottawa/rest of Canada. US also has unsustainable debt levels that destine it to collapse within 5-10 years at most. Canada should do far more to shorten that timeline, or be compensated not to.