the amatanormativity is so strong in that game. can only marry one person, can never get divorced, you have essentially no relationship with your spouse they just live in your house and provide you economic benefits and raise your children. only way out of the relationship is murder or an "unfortunate accident".
but yeah it was a huge bummer you couldnt marry serana because shes like the only character with any personality and a meaningful amount of dialog in the whole game. i just want to live my vampire lesbian fantasy TODD why is that so much to ask?
Bethesda is... not a good developer. Or a very smart one.
They hired the actress who played Amata in Fallout 3, but they wanted her to be romanceable. The actress said no, full stop, she is a child-friendly actress (I think she was on Nickelodeon or Disney) and she would not do the lines. Did they recast her? Nope, they just rolled with it. That's why the game sets you up for a romance but never delivers on it. You were never supposed to be able to romance her during the escape. It was during the Trouble on the Homefront quest where you come back, there was reportedly supposed to be an outcome where you convince her to leave with you (I think you had to have one of the two player homes established in the game — the Megaton house, or the Tenpenny Tower suite) and she would, but they... never finished it, and it's just kinda crappy.
Okay, you live and learn, right? Then the same thing happened with the Dawnguard expansion. They got their Serana, and she said no to the romance stuff (and IIRC vocally opposed mods on PC that let you marry the character). Like, the fuck you care? It's a role, and it's a paying role. But whatever, I can't tell people where to draw the line. I just wish Bethesda had just been up-front with these women, this role does require you to say certain lines because this character will be hooking up with the player (optionally). If they aren't comfortable with that, they don't have to take the job.
I will say, to their credit, that their characters do not care if you are the same or opposite sex (or anything else), you just have to fulfill their obligations. In Skyrim it was typically a friendship quest. If they're a merchant you just have to buy something (or invoke the trade menu) and they consider you a friend. Some had quests you had to do, like the Amazonian woman who had lost her sword. So you had to do a whole dungeon crawl to complete that quest. Then you just wear an Amulet of Mara, speak to them, ask if they fancy you, set up the wedding, and they always say yes. In Fallout 4 and Starfield, you had to complete a quest line for them. So one guy in Fallout 4 has these mercs after him, you take care of them, then you find out he has a son with a crazy infection and he wants you to find the serum that will cure the kid. You never meet the kid. He never leaves and goes back to the kid. In Starfield there was a woman, you just travel with her for a while, eventually she tells you about this mission she was on where she left people behind. She wants to remember them. Turns out there were survivors. They died but had a kid who is living feral, and you can go get the kid and bring her to civilisation (which magically solves everything, but never mind that, it's sweet). So only after all that can you romance these people — or friend-zone them. I do like that a bit better than in Skyrim. And one of the actors — Elias Toufexis, most well known for voicing Adam "I never asked for this" Jensen in Deus Ex: Human Revolution — even came out and said he did his voices intending Starborn of both/all genders to romance his character. And that's probably the best romance in a Bethesda game by far, at least IMO. You meet the mother of his child and gain her approval. You then kinda propose to the child — you tell her you intend to be her step-parent, and then you can either say you love her, or if that makes you uncomfortable, I think you can say you care about her and want to help her reach for the stars or some shit — and she tells you to go propose to her dad. The whole thing was really beautiful. So yeah, Sam and Cora every time, though I haven't played that game (honestly, it's shit otherwise) in a few years.
That's interesting on the actor refusing to do those lines - I'm an actor and unless they were being real creepy about it generally for projects like this you're reading the lines with 0 context so you wouldn't know what half the lines are for.
Yes, but consider in Shakespeare's day you'd get about the same - your cue line and your line, so it's kinda always been like this for some.
VO's may be recording odd bits of text including "Ungh" "Oof" "Argh" for an entire week while standing in a sound proof booth.
EDIT: consider, for a video game production, VO actors are props like vines or treasure chests or NPCs. They're a cost center that exists as a cue in the code that is then later replaced as an audio resource file with a timer on it. Generally the developers aren't thinking of the actors' process when they put an invisible trigger cube on the ground that makes the player say "Hmm, it's dark in here" and they need it to be less than 3 seconds long cuz it coincides with an animation.
A lot of acting is the skill of justifying what you're doing. You may shoot the last scene of the movie first in which your wife died 18 months before shooting the first scene of the movie where you meet your wife
I'm currently doing a Pinter play where everyone lies, people contradict themselves - there's no explanatory text.
Goldberg: "Simey!" She'd say to me
McCann: I thought your name was Nat?
Goldberg: She called me Simey.
(Later)
Goldberg: Look in my mouth. Never lost a tooth, even as a child. Still have all my baby teeth.
It's up to the whole team how to play it - is Goldberg a fantasist? Is he lying for a reason? Is it a metaphor? Is he trying to obscure his past...?
thank you so much for the recommendations! my queue currently has 3 jasper fforde novels to reread and a grady hendrix, and i always enjoy a lengthening todo list
I’ve been playing Fallout London, a FO4 full conversion mod that’s better than FO4 IMHO. The only companion you can talk to about romance is Kiera, who gives you either a “no” or an aggressive “hard no” depending on how you ask. She’ll straight up leave your party and tank your affinity if you ask a second time.
The game has a habit of repeating the Fallout series’ idiosyncrasies, so it doesn’t surprise me they went from Amata’s actress’ aromanticism to Kiera doing the same in game.
I do wish they hadn’t kept the FO series’ habit of only recording a couple of voice lines for faction background chatter, but recording it in ten different voices. Especially when they have the voice actors all sing the same song, but some of them don’t know it’s a song and just say it.
12 Comments
applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 29 pts · 2d
the amatanormativity is so strong in that game. can only marry one person, can never get divorced, you have essentially no relationship with your spouse they just live in your house and provide you economic benefits and raise your children. only way out of the relationship is murder or an "unfortunate accident".
but yeah it was a huge bummer you couldnt marry serana because shes like the only character with any personality and a meaningful amount of dialog in the whole game. i just want to live my vampire lesbian fantasy TODD why is that so much to ask?
paultimate14@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 2d
I mean... It was a 2011 game. I remember incels getting mad that they allowed same-sex marriage.
Heck, Skyrim even predates the TERM "Amatanormativity"
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 17 pts · 2d
Bethesda is... not a good developer. Or a very smart one.
They hired the actress who played Amata in Fallout 3, but they wanted her to be romanceable. The actress said no, full stop, she is a child-friendly actress (I think she was on Nickelodeon or Disney) and she would not do the lines. Did they recast her? Nope, they just rolled with it. That's why the game sets you up for a romance but never delivers on it. You were never supposed to be able to romance her during the escape. It was during the Trouble on the Homefront quest where you come back, there was reportedly supposed to be an outcome where you convince her to leave with you (I think you had to have one of the two player homes established in the game — the Megaton house, or the Tenpenny Tower suite) and she would, but they... never finished it, and it's just kinda crappy.
Okay, you live and learn, right? Then the same thing happened with the Dawnguard expansion. They got their Serana, and she said no to the romance stuff (and IIRC vocally opposed mods on PC that let you marry the character). Like, the fuck you care? It's a role, and it's a paying role. But whatever, I can't tell people where to draw the line. I just wish Bethesda had just been up-front with these women, this role does require you to say certain lines because this character will be hooking up with the player (optionally). If they aren't comfortable with that, they don't have to take the job.
I will say, to their credit, that their characters do not care if you are the same or opposite sex (or anything else), you just have to fulfill their obligations. In Skyrim it was typically a friendship quest. If they're a merchant you just have to buy something (or invoke the trade menu) and they consider you a friend. Some had quests you had to do, like the Amazonian woman who had lost her sword. So you had to do a whole dungeon crawl to complete that quest. Then you just wear an Amulet of Mara, speak to them, ask if they fancy you, set up the wedding, and they always say yes. In Fallout 4 and Starfield, you had to complete a quest line for them. So one guy in Fallout 4 has these mercs after him, you take care of them, then you find out he has a son with a crazy infection and he wants you to find the serum that will cure the kid. You never meet the kid. He never leaves and goes back to the kid. In Starfield there was a woman, you just travel with her for a while, eventually she tells you about this mission she was on where she left people behind. She wants to remember them. Turns out there were survivors. They died but had a kid who is living feral, and you can go get the kid and bring her to civilisation (which magically solves everything, but never mind that, it's sweet). So only after all that can you romance these people — or friend-zone them. I do like that a bit better than in Skyrim. And one of the actors — Elias Toufexis, most well known for voicing Adam "I never asked for this" Jensen in Deus Ex: Human Revolution — even came out and said he did his voices intending Starborn of both/all genders to romance his character. And that's probably the best romance in a Bethesda game by far, at least IMO. You meet the mother of his child and gain her approval. You then kinda propose to the child — you tell her you intend to be her step-parent, and then you can either say you love her, or if that makes you uncomfortable, I think you can say you care about her and want to help her reach for the stars or some shit — and she tells you to go propose to her dad. The whole thing was really beautiful. So yeah, Sam and Cora every time, though I haven't played that game (honestly, it's shit otherwise) in a few years.
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 2d
That's interesting on the actor refusing to do those lines - I'm an actor and unless they were being real creepy about it generally for projects like this you're reading the lines with 0 context so you wouldn't know what half the lines are for.
Reading the lines in, for example, this order: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Amata.txt you'd probably have no idea what the plot is at all.
AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 2d
Does it not help your job to have the context of the lines?
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 2d
Yes, but consider in Shakespeare's day you'd get about the same - your cue line and your line, so it's kinda always been like this for some.
VO's may be recording odd bits of text including "Ungh" "Oof" "Argh" for an entire week while standing in a sound proof booth.
EDIT: consider, for a video game production, VO actors are props like vines or treasure chests or NPCs. They're a cost center that exists as a cue in the code that is then later replaced as an audio resource file with a timer on it. Generally the developers aren't thinking of the actors' process when they put an invisible trigger cube on the ground that makes the player say "Hmm, it's dark in here" and they need it to be less than 3 seconds long cuz it coincides with an animation.
A lot of acting is the skill of justifying what you're doing. You may shoot the last scene of the movie first in which your wife died 18 months before shooting the first scene of the movie where you meet your wife
I'm currently doing a Pinter play where everyone lies, people contradict themselves - there's no explanatory text.
Goldberg: "Simey!" She'd say to me
McCann: I thought your name was Nat?
Goldberg: She called me Simey.
(Later)
Goldberg: Look in my mouth. Never lost a tooth, even as a child. Still have all my baby teeth.
It's up to the whole team how to play it - is Goldberg a fantasist? Is he lying for a reason? Is it a metaphor? Is he trying to obscure his past...?
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2d
ooo, i'm just about to engage on a writing project and need to read something new beforehand. my verbiage is getting stale. Pinter sounds fun
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 2d
Complete works vol 1 has The Birthday Party and The Dumb Waiter which are considered his classics.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2d
thank you so much for the recommendations! my queue currently has 3 jasper fforde novels to reread and a grady hendrix, and i always enjoy a lengthening todo list
binarytobis@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 2d
I’ve been playing Fallout London, a FO4 full conversion mod that’s better than FO4 IMHO. The only companion you can talk to about romance is Kiera, who gives you either a “no” or an aggressive “hard no” depending on how you ask. She’ll straight up leave your party and tank your affinity if you ask a second time.
The game has a habit of repeating the Fallout series’ idiosyncrasies, so it doesn’t surprise me they went from Amata’s actress’ aromanticism to Kiera doing the same in game.
I do wish they hadn’t kept the FO series’ habit of only recording a couple of voice lines for faction background chatter, but recording it in ten different voices. Especially when they have the voice actors all sing the same song, but some of them don’t know it’s a song and just say it.
starman2112@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 2d
That's wild
I first married Ysolda because she's pretty
SquishedFly@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 1d
This post is funny and all but holy shit, please use at least some punctuation ;-;