I think people are upset by the legitimate problems that they see, but I think they typically mis-diagnose the cause of the problems.
People are scared to lose their jobs, and their livelihood, for good reason. Capitalism sucks, and it ties the two together.
I'm pro automation, because I want people to lose their jobs. What I don't want is for them to lose their livelihood. I think people working on jobs that they don't like just to pay the bills is dumb, but people working on jobs that they enjoy is awesome.
Who needs to process the camera data? Again, it is a very different technology from all of the comparisons because it is literally taking out the need for large bodies of human oversight. Data collection vs data processing.
I could say the same thing about spreadsheets. Is spreadsheet software, or databases bad?
A camera does not decide who lives and who dies. An LLM can (and has) decided who lives and who dies and can carry out the execution orders itself.
That's a choice that is being made. That's not the point of LLMs, it's one of the many things that LLMs are being used for.
But I guess cameras aren’t starving people of water and power and a required prerequisite to their use at scale.
The same is also true of LLMs. Capitalism is doing that. We can make LLMs much more efficiently, but we choose not to, due to capitalism.
But you’re right. LLMs aren’t evil at all, they are just a tool. The next defining tool that fascists now need to subjugate everyone and eliminate resistance.
I'm against their use by facists, just like I'm against facists using cars, or bulldozers, or guns, or wheat. I just don't see how LLMs are any different.
Letters can be delivered by a human. Do you think we should only send letters, intead of sending texts? What about cars, and trains? They take jobs away from people, should we abandon those? What about copiers, or printers? What about power tools? or water pumps?
Those things all help corporations, and non-corporations too. I don't see how LLM's are any different. Should we abandon all automation to keep people employed?
If LLM’s don’t have a well-defined problem to solve, how does one misuse it, if they are not for “direct calculations” you keep talking about, what are LLM’s for?
They are for statistical analysis and probabilistic modeling. They give general responses, based on statistical inference.
I’ve given you a few problems that aren’t capitalism specific, I’m not going to recount them, if i was more rude I’d suggest getting an LLM to fetch a few bullet points, but it’s more healthy to just take a few more minutes to re-read what i just took time out of my day for you all to read.
It's always amazing to me when people accuse me of doing what they themselves are doing. I read what you wrote, but you aparently didn't read what I wrote. I never claimed that you only gave capitalism specific problems. I'm not even sure where you got that from.
And the reason you don’t see me blaming other tools is just because this was your only interaction with me, I’m learning software engineering, because i like the subject, and in software almost all we do is complain about tools, the documentation for said tools, the setup required to use a tool and the like, critiquing work is part of what makes an engineer, that’s how we get better, usually though, i don’t need to argue that something is not even a tool.
I don't understand what you mean by this. I explicitly pointed out tools: scrolls, waterwheels, hammers, etc as examples of tools that can be misused to be anti-worker, and hierarchical, but aren't inherently so. Are you saying that you do think that they are "inherently anti-worker and hierarchical" ?
Please explain it to me, because I don't see how that can be true.
This applies to cameras as well. Cameras help fascists, fascists help target victims, cameras help track people, cameras help report where people are and what they are doing. Cameras make us easier to control.
Do you think all cameras are bad? or are they just a tool that is being mis-used by the fascists?
Did you? Because based on the post timestamps, you spent literally 5 minutes looking at that list, which doesn't seem like enough time to look through or test any of those models.
All of your responses here are either wrong, or keep side-stepping my points: Yes, LLMs can give sources, and often do. Yes, people do shitty things with LLMs, but how is that inherent to the LLM? Yes, LLMs don't have a well-defined problem, and can't do direct calculations, that's not what they are for.
I still fail to see how any of that makes LLM's inherently bad. The things you blame LLM's for are social problems, or capitalism problems, or something similar. I don't see you blaming other tools for the problems they create when they are mis-used.
So you admittedly didn't even look at the models, nor their uses, but have determined that they don't match your criteria?
If you aren't going to accept a response just because you don't like that it contradicts what you want to believe, I'm not going to waste my time engaging with you.
If LLMs were only made by apartheid supporing corporations, you might have a point. But many different people and groups create LLM's for all kinds of things: Statistical analysis, generating stories and characters, coding assistance, design assistance, process assistance, language translation, rubber ducking, debate assistance, running D&D games and many more.
First, we have skilled labor for a reason. Some people dedicated years of their life to perfect a skill or a trade, and they are trustworthy experts with experience in the matter. It would be unfair for those people if they got replaced by a sloppier version of themselves, after spending so much time and effort into their skills.
Is it "unfair" to bakers that I make my own bread at home with a bread machine? What about using a calculator? Or a dishwashing machine?
Second, AI was built on stolen labor. Even if you use a self hosted model, running on old hardware that was thrown away, using solar and wind energy, its usage is still morally wrong.
Well, it's not all built on stolen labor. A lot of it is built on data that was given away freely. You also didn't really provide a reason why it would still be morally wrong.
On top of that, even if the models are used locally (and even if they are tuned locally), the initial training happens on massive datacenters that consume lots of resources. And what you get isn’t the first attempt at making a model. For every successful model out there, thousands of other models were trained and abandoned.
They don't have to use massive resources, we just choose to do them that way because of capitalism. Cities use massive amounts of resources, and many of them aren't successfull on the first try. Should we stop building cities?
The rest of your post is more of a complaint about capitalism, and misunderstandings of how we choose to make AI models, not how they inherently have to be made.
I think people are upset by the legitimate problems that they see, but I think they typically mis-diagnose the cause of the problems.
People are scared to lose their jobs, and their livelihood, for good reason. Capitalism sucks, and it ties the two together.
I'm pro automation, because I want people to lose their jobs. What I don't want is for them to lose their livelihood. I think people working on jobs that they don't like just to pay the bills is dumb, but people working on jobs that they enjoy is awesome.
I could say the same thing about spreadsheets. Is spreadsheet software, or databases bad?
That's a choice that is being made. That's not the point of LLMs, it's one of the many things that LLMs are being used for.
The same is also true of LLMs. Capitalism is doing that. We can make LLMs much more efficiently, but we choose not to, due to capitalism.
I'm against their use by facists, just like I'm against facists using cars, or bulldozers, or guns, or wheat. I just don't see how LLMs are any different.
Letters can be delivered by a human. Do you think we should only send letters, intead of sending texts? What about cars, and trains? They take jobs away from people, should we abandon those? What about copiers, or printers? What about power tools? or water pumps?
Those things all help corporations, and non-corporations too. I don't see how LLM's are any different. Should we abandon all automation to keep people employed?
Yeah, I figured that out, and had already blocked them. But thx!
The FLX1s has this feature:
https://furilabs.com/flx1s-meets-the-big-screen/
They are for statistical analysis and probabilistic modeling. They give general responses, based on statistical inference.
It's always amazing to me when people accuse me of doing what they themselves are doing. I read what you wrote, but you aparently didn't read what I wrote. I never claimed that you only gave capitalism specific problems. I'm not even sure where you got that from.
I don't understand what you mean by this. I explicitly pointed out tools: scrolls, waterwheels, hammers, etc as examples of tools that can be misused to be anti-worker, and hierarchical, but aren't inherently so. Are you saying that you do think that they are "inherently anti-worker and hierarchical" ?
Please explain it to me, because I don't see how that can be true.
This applies to cameras as well. Cameras help fascists, fascists help target victims, cameras help track people, cameras help report where people are and what they are doing. Cameras make us easier to control.
Do you think all cameras are bad? or are they just a tool that is being mis-used by the fascists?
Yes, your self-awareness is impressive.
All of them.
LoL, the person who refuses to look at data, is accusing me of trolling them. Great success.
Yes.
They are open-weight, and I don't see what being a toy model has to do with anything.
Many such cases. I see this all the time when it comes to genocide, or the DNC, or healthcare, or economics, etc.
People can be frustrating
Yet, when presented with data that contradicts your point, you sure don't seem to understand the basics of how they work.
Then why don't you try doing that here? All you did was ignore data that was counter to your claim.
Oh, you mean like you just did? curiouser and couriouser
Suddenly?
They've been on the wrong side of history for a loooooooong time
Did you? Because based on the post timestamps, you spent literally 5 minutes looking at that list, which doesn't seem like enough time to look through or test any of those models.
All of your responses here are either wrong, or keep side-stepping my points: Yes, LLMs can give sources, and often do. Yes, people do shitty things with LLMs, but how is that inherent to the LLM? Yes, LLMs don't have a well-defined problem, and can't do direct calculations, that's not what they are for.
I still fail to see how any of that makes LLM's inherently bad. The things you blame LLM's for are social problems, or capitalism problems, or something similar. I don't see you blaming other tools for the problems they create when they are mis-used.
So you admittedly didn't even look at the models, nor their uses, but have determined that they don't match your criteria?
If you aren't going to accept a response just because you don't like that it contradicts what you want to believe, I'm not going to waste my time engaging with you.
If LLMs were only made by apartheid supporing corporations, you might have a point. But many different people and groups create LLM's for all kinds of things: Statistical analysis, generating stories and characters, coding assistance, design assistance, process assistance, language translation, rubber ducking, debate assistance, running D&D games and many more.
You want me to do a basic internet search for you?
Fine: https://www.fairlytrained.org/certified-models
Is it "unfair" to bakers that I make my own bread at home with a bread machine? What about using a calculator? Or a dishwashing machine?
Well, it's not all built on stolen labor. A lot of it is built on data that was given away freely. You also didn't really provide a reason why it would still be morally wrong.
They don't have to use massive resources, we just choose to do them that way because of capitalism. Cities use massive amounts of resources, and many of them aren't successfull on the first try. Should we stop building cities?
The rest of your post is more of a complaint about capitalism, and misunderstandings of how we choose to make AI models, not how they inherently have to be made.
How are they fundamentally fascist? They don't exist for those purposes, but they can be used for those purposes.
That's like saying "hammers exist to beat people's heads in". Yes, they can do that, but that's not what they are meant for.