There is a reason we are putting up with decades of legacy stuff still from the original x86 architecture in PCs... the compatibility of hardware and the standardisation even if it's through several extensions build off each other is unmatched.
ARM architecture might be much simpler but you constantly need hardware specific adaptions, which makes support for different mobile devices this mess.
One thing I really dislike about the Mobile ecosystem is how much different each device is to each other.
I thought you were sarcastic when I first read this part, since way back when phones used to be innovative in both hardware and software. The current market offerings are all carbon copies of eachother with a strong trend towards converging into the exact same lineup.
Multiple cameras, one in front, 2+ in back. A power button and two for volume. Reader apps may hijack it for scroll. Gesture movements. Fingerprint and face id. Less and less conusmer freedom in software choice. Irremovable battery. No removable back plate. A rectangular brick. A near-100% display area. No headphone jack or SD card, with SIM on the way out.
Covers the vast majority of offerings on the market, with a few slight adds/subtracts. Dumbphones are a rounding error.
This definition covers even tablets, and it isn't even deliverately vague.
Without much experimentation and development on the hardware front, no wonder software's behaving exactly the same.
There just isn't enough interest for proper innovation and experimentation.
Just because they have the same function in the OS doesn't mean the hardware is the same. That's where custom ROMs falter, with closed sourced hardware drivers.
The issue isn't normalisation, it's inaccessibility to understand the core functionality to drive the hardware.
What the hell are you talking about?? You've just made up this "ARM ecosystem" thing, when it never was a thing.
ARM design processors, then license those designs to other companies to build devices. There is no "ecosystem" because they don't define the rest of the device.
The "ecosystem" you're referring to is the overall phone itself, much of which is defined by Android and Google more than it is by ARM.
For me the most interesting piece from the Mastodon thread is the fact that the Motorola partnership was born out of Google making it more difficult for non-OEMs to get access to AOSP source code (emphasis mine):
Google replaced pushing Git tags for certain source code with obtaining source code via Google Drive after making a request through Google Forms. It's completely ridiculous and they've gradually become very slow at handling requests. They're in clear violation of the GPLv2 now.
[...]
These changes won't negatively impact GrapheneOS on upcoming Motorola Mobility devices. In fact, it's a major part of why our partnership exists. It only negatively impacts Pixels and hurts Google more than anyone else. Google wants to make Pixels worse for no apparent reason.
This also means that in the future Motorola devices will get faster security updates on GrapheneOS than Pixels.
i've been waiting too, but now that i know that the motorola phone will cost more than a pixel, now i think i just might give up and go with a pixel instead.
Honestly, I'd replace this fuckass Google device in a heartbeat, but I will never in my life understand why people want flagship phones. I got a b-ware 9a for 300 bucks and even this one is way overkill for what I want in a phone. Why can't there just be a low-spec one instead of ones that cost more than an entry class laptop?
Well I do want GrapheneOS on it so they aren't an option. I just wonder why noone is capitalizing on a ~200 bucks GrapheneOS phone for people like me who don't need the processing power or even lower-spec models for criminals who literally only have Signal on it. I mean which criminal organization or activist group or whatever wouldn't buy a box full of sub 200 bucks GrapheneOS phones?
You'd need be able to relock the bootloader while allowing any properly signed OS to be installed, even custom ones. There's a few phones that let you do this that aren't Pixels but not really documented well. Apparently the bootloader relock is an advertised feature and not an oversight like other phones^1^.
That and google has the titan m2 chip so I'm assuming Motorola will incorporate something similar as well along with proper hardware support.^2^
If you want to have a cheap phone that runs a secure os securely, you'd need to build it (like Lineage os)and sign it yourself with your own keys.
And then with this you'd have to find a phone that supports lineage os, has an unlockable bootloader, has an unlockable bootloader that will let you use your own keys, and have the patience to build LOS yourself. I've tried this once and it's hard.
My last Android phone was a moto e2 LTE running lineageos and I was running around with an unlocked bootloader. I was a teenager so no banking apps and nothing was really looking for root or bootloader state. This was a $40 smartphone in 2015 with 1 gb of ram. Anything was an improvement.
^2^: Im used to old Lenovo owned Motorola with ill supported phones. The aforementioned moto e2 lost support less than a year after launch (but that was more due the handover to Lenovo and that was a Google designed phone). A lot of their E line phones would get one version and then a new phone would drop with basically the same hardware. E4 and E5 were like that. The more expensive ones had a bit of improvement but not much more. Supposedly they want to get better with support but I won't be surprised if that promise falls short.
Yeah, I'm still holding out hope for a "convergent" device I can dock and use as a PC. I've used Samsung's DeX a bit, and it's okay but I really want a Linux phone with something like a high end flagship Snapdragon SOC that gives me a normal Plasma desktop when docked. Samsung was doing Linux on DeX for like, a month or so, then discontinued it.
That's understandable. I've long been a critic of how non-customizeable phones are. I actually prefer big phones, as my eyes are bad, but different people have different needs, and it should be trivial to adjust phones accordingly.
True but there aren't that many compact phones. And the phones that are being advertised as compact used to be the normal size. I'm genuinely considering getting a Zinwa Q25 or Q27, which is a gutted blackberry.
cool, does it ship with a OS that lets me actually use it like a general purpose computer that it is? No, I am not fighting with android, I want a proper OS
Unfortunately no, I tried using Nix on Droid and it's super buggy and Android's aggressive OOM killer and lack of systemd didn't help, NixOS-AVF on Android Terminal is probably going to be my next shot, and hopefully the Linux support on Fairphone makes more progress
Yes, but like half the SoC power, half the RAM wouldn't change anything about how I use the phone. It's just not needed at fucking all, waste of money. I'd rather have even more battery life lmao
I'm actually kind of excited about this, despite it meaning my next phone is going to be more expensive than I want (or can really handle, so I'll start saving now.)
I figured this would be the case, too, for the exact reason stated in the article, the Moto G devices aren't secure enough.
BUT why I'm excited is usually Moto's flagship phones have expandable storage!!! I want nothing more from a phone than a grapheneOS phone with a microSD! I'm still mad at the cell phone market for killing expandable storage. Now if I could just convince them to give me two USB-C ports so I don't have to wear my charge port to use wired headphones...
I had (still works, just retired now) the last Samsung flagship with a micro SD as my phone until 9 months ago. Note 20 Ultra. 8 miss my s pen, still, but Samsung has been charging too much for lazy trash phones for too long now, so I bailed.
Unfortunately once microSD, headphone jack, and removable batteries were gone I moved to iPhone.
My thought was if I lose all the the things I like about Android, why would I not be in the more cohesive ecosystem?
I use Linux for gaming and Mac OS for work. I waited years for Android/chromeOS to catch up, but Google can’t even get a messaging app/video chat app right.
The day memory cards and removable batteries come back I’ll think about leaving.
I still like the options and alternatives I can get from android over apple.
Also, I got a thousand dollar android that stomps the hell out of what you can have from apple for $1600. Hopefully their will be better alternatives by the time I need another new phone.
Edit: @plyth@feddit.org pointed out that Motorola is in fact split into two separate companies. The phone company is effectively Lenovo, so Chinese, and not related to the American surveillance technology branch.
Not sure I'd trust Lenovo/Motorola Mobility either, but that's a different story.
In June 2026, Motorola bricked its whole line of routers without any explanation, leaving their customers with broken hardware.
The main thing you're supporting is Motorola, the second biggest provider of surveillance technology in the US after Flock. Deflock lists 5% of the cameras as Motorola, but the share is increasing as backlash against Flock is growing and Flock cameras are replaced with more low key competitors.
404media has reported on how Motorola cameras are used by ice.
"Gotta support the cause" is one hell of a dangerous sentiment under capitalism.
They're keeping a low profile on their surveillance technology while successfully marketing themselves as a privacy alternative in consumer tech. Its pretty fascinating to watch. I wouldn't blame anyone for missing it.
It's also worth reading up on Aviglon, a subsidiary of Motorola specializing in surveillance technology.
Motorola was split into two independent public companies: Motorola Solutions (its legal successor) and Motorola Mobility (spun off), on January 4, 2011
It's open source, but the license agreement prohibits using it in other projects. You can do it for your own personal builds, but not any published builds.
I would have liked an affordable midrange device (like Pixel 4a) with the option of graphene os preinstalled. That would unlock it as a device recommendation for my family members: Everything still works, and the device is good enough for all expected workloads.
And with a growing user base comes mainstream relevance for graphene os.
Avant-garde nerds hacking their phones with custom roms may clear the path, but the normies can bring the necessary financial volume.
The 4a was the last light one. When I tested the newer Pixels every of the a models was much heavier. I can't get around it, why would engineers think it's a good idea to make a successor heavier and not lighter?
Fun fact: it seems that it's not a limitation of the type of the display itself but a limitation from either the controller or the firmware of the display, someone on youtube managed to make an e-ink display to run at 60hHz https://youtu.be/nHbA2-_qzH4
It doesn't look as good as an LED or OLED screen of course but it's good enough
I've actually seen that video before, and the main limitation is still the pixel transition time. It's something like 200ms, so any sort of motion will have heavy ghosting. It's definitely a huge improvement over most controllers though.
If all you do is read/look at static content, e-ink is great, and that's why it's used on all the e-readers. I wouldn't want to be taking a video call on one though.
Tandem oled screens are also starting to become more of a thing, and that improves the usability in direct sun. But I don't have any problem using my phone outside as it is. I'd rather just have a bigger battery than a worse looking screen for what I do.
Yeah, in the end it's all about what you do, tbh i wouldn't use an e-ink for my main phone... but if there was a way to swap screens in the same way you could swap batteries in old phones i would buy an e-ink screen to swap🥹
Everything has pros and cons. Try OLED in the sun. To me refresh rates and numb coloring are irrelevant to what I need to do on a daily basis. Most of my work on the phone is speech and reading/texting anyways.
Bigger screens for doomscrolling needs bigger batteries. But if you don't do that.. My Pixel 3a used to lady 3-4 days easily when it was new and running GOS.
The base Pixel is 1K Euro this year. Are they really thinking of releasing a 1K+ phone? That's absolutely insane.
Pixels used to be mid range phones with great cameras or more precisely great image processors for mid range prices to overvalued mid range phones with outdated hardware.
Check the second hand options. I bought a brand new Pixel 10 Pro at the beginning of the year for 600€ from the second hand market from a guy who got it with his contract renewal for free. I think back then the regular Pixel was costing 500€, so I can imagine that you can find a Pixel 9 for 300-350€ in a very good condition.
Pixels used to be mid range phones with great cameras or more precisely great image processors for mid range prices to overvalued mid range phones with outdated hardware.
Pixel is now (and arguably always was) an overpriced piece of garbage, fact. Googlebet realized selling Nexus units at basically cost for developers was a missed opportunity for more profit, no question.
Comparing these to Pixels though, which are actually complete garbage, makes no sense - the only similarity is that they will both support Graphene, and have the hardware to do so.
These lastest-gen Motorola devices are better compared to Oppo and Xiaomi - absolute TOP OF THE LINE TECH that we barely even get to see in the west unless we import stuff from China (as I did for my two phones prior to my current Pixel). So yes, they will cost more, but they are going to be REAL flagships, that will EASILY last 2-3 years. I think my last Xiaomi got me through three before I even thought about an upgrade, the way it used to be with the 'western' companies before they realized they can release garbage and get people to buy new practically every year.
"GrapheneOS has supported Pixels because Google’s Tensor chips provide the necessary security features, but not all Qualcomm chips offer the same capabilities. Only Qualcomm’s most expensive 8-series processors are comparable from a security standpoint, and those only go in expensive flagship smartphones."
The price has to do with cpu types. As long as those particular chips remain expensive and top shelf, it won't reach more budget devices. Its not a malicious choice.
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Show up to a repair center with a phone running a custom ROM and try to have the people working there give a single damn about what EU law says about bootloader unlocking. I'm talking from experience, because I had to.
Anyway, I'm not even sure that Motorola could sell a smartphone with Graphene OS as its stock firmware, because Google would probably get pissed off about it.
105 Comments
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 146 pts · 2d
One thing I really dislike about the Mobile ecosystem is how much different each device is to each other.
Imagine owning a laptop and not being able to install linux without the manufacturer permission.
They really messed us up with how they created the phone architecture, so closed and restrictive.
abbadon420@sh.itjust.works · 62 pts · 2d
Capitalism
Ooops@feddit.org · 21 pts · 2d
There is a reason we are putting up with decades of legacy stuff still from the original x86 architecture in PCs... the compatibility of hardware and the standardisation even if it's through several extensions build off each other is unmatched.
ARM architecture might be much simpler but you constantly need hardware specific adaptions, which makes support for different mobile devices this mess.
Mihies@programming.dev · 3 pts · 1d
IOW closed source drivers are the problem.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 20 pts · 1d
The ptoblem is that all the phone manufacters don't release any drivers, neither close or open
protogen420@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 20h
nor document their hardware at all
DupaCycki@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 1d
It used to be the same with x86 computers, but over time a standardized interface was developed.
ARM is already getting something similar, but most companies aren't interested, precisely because they're perfectly fine with the restrictions.
unwarlikeExtortion@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 2d
I thought you were sarcastic when I first read this part, since way back when phones used to be innovative in both hardware and software. The current market offerings are all carbon copies of eachother with a strong trend towards converging into the exact same lineup.
Multiple cameras, one in front, 2+ in back. A power button and two for volume. Reader apps may hijack it for scroll. Gesture movements. Fingerprint and face id. Less and less conusmer freedom in software choice. Irremovable battery. No removable back plate. A rectangular brick. A near-100% display area. No headphone jack or SD card, with SIM on the way out.
Covers the vast majority of offerings on the market, with a few slight adds/subtracts. Dumbphones are a rounding error.
This definition covers even tablets, and it isn't even deliverately vague.
Without much experimentation and development on the hardware front, no wonder software's behaving exactly the same.
There just isn't enough interest for proper innovation and experimentation.
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 22 pts · 1d
Oh that's 100% true.
I was just thinking on the firmware of the thing. And how incompatible are they between models that are almost the same.
And as you say all phones are basically the same, there's no excuse for how little normalization there is in the software they carry.
TWeaK@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 1d
Just because they have the same function in the OS doesn't mean the hardware is the same. That's where custom ROMs falter, with closed sourced hardware drivers.
The issue isn't normalisation, it's inaccessibility to understand the core functionality to drive the hardware.
Untamed_Star@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 1d
And we're not even talking about iphone
hanrahan@slrpnk.net · 5 pts · 1d
Fairphone 6 ?
admin@lemmy.my-box.dev · 4 pts · 1d
The exception proves the rule.
TWeaK@lemmy.today · -5 pts · 1d
I think you don't really understand how hard it is to standardise everything. Just because IBM managed it in the 80s doesn't mean it was easy.
peskypry@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 1d
What the hell are you talking about? We have standards almost for everything now. It's just ARM ecosystem messed up as it were on purpose.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 5 pts · 1d
It is on purpose
TWeaK@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 1d
What the hell are you talking about?? You've just made up this "ARM ecosystem" thing, when it never was a thing.
ARM design processors, then license those designs to other companies to build devices. There is no "ecosystem" because they don't define the rest of the device.
The "ecosystem" you're referring to is the overall phone itself, much of which is defined by Android and Google more than it is by ARM.
BlackEco@lemmy.blackeco.com · 84 pts · 2d
For me the most interesting piece from the Mastodon thread is the fact that the Motorola partnership was born out of Google making it more difficult for non-OEMs to get access to AOSP source code (emphasis mine):
This also means that in the future Motorola devices will get faster security updates on GrapheneOS than Pixels.
Darkcoffee@sh.itjust.works · 33 pts · 2d
This is exactly why I've waited to get a Graphene OS phone, Google can't be trusted.
eldavi@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 1d
i've been waiting too, but now that i know that the motorola phone will cost more than a pixel, now i think i just might give up and go with a pixel instead.
yxc999@lemmy.ml · 31 pts · 1d
Honestly, I'd replace this fuckass Google device in a heartbeat, but I will never in my life understand why people want flagship phones. I got a b-ware 9a for 300 bucks and even this one is way overkill for what I want in a phone. Why can't there just be a low-spec one instead of ones that cost more than an entry class laptop?
lproven@social.vivaldi.net · 10 pts · 1d
@yxc999 @zdhzm2pgp
> even this one is way overkill for what I want in a phone. Why can’t there just be a low-spec one instead
Exactly this.
My solution is: dirt-cheap bargain-basement Chinese phones.
They do the job and you can get a lot for under £150.
My best buy was an Umidigi F2. Stunning device for £125. I have bought dinners that cost more than that.
*But* you'll never get an OS upgrade, they're unsupported by all the alternative OSes, and there is the everpresent risk of spyware.
For me, that's worth it, but I get that it's not for everyone and so I do not unequivocally recommend them.
yxc999@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 1d
Well I do want GrapheneOS on it so they aren't an option. I just wonder why noone is capitalizing on a ~200 bucks GrapheneOS phone for people like me who don't need the processing power or even lower-spec models for criminals who literally only have Signal on it. I mean which criminal organization or activist group or whatever wouldn't buy a box full of sub 200 bucks GrapheneOS phones?
matlag@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 1d
First, phone makers need a strong market signal that a significant number of people do give a damn about security and privacy.
When "everyone" is on Whatsapp/Facebook/X/etc., it's hard to believe!
notthebees@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 6h
You'd need be able to relock the bootloader while allowing any properly signed OS to be installed, even custom ones. There's a few phones that let you do this that aren't Pixels but not really documented well. Apparently the bootloader relock is an advertised feature and not an oversight like other phones^1^.
That and google has the titan m2 chip so I'm assuming Motorola will incorporate something similar as well along with proper hardware support.^2^
If you want to have a cheap phone that runs a secure os securely, you'd need to build it (like Lineage os)and sign it yourself with your own keys.
And then with this you'd have to find a phone that supports lineage os, has an unlockable bootloader, has an unlockable bootloader that will let you use your own keys, and have the patience to build LOS yourself. I've tried this once and it's hard.
My last Android phone was a moto e2 LTE running lineageos and I was running around with an unlocked bootloader. I was a teenager so no banking apps and nothing was really looking for root or bootloader state. This was a $40 smartphone in 2015 with 1 gb of ram. Anything was an improvement.
^1^: Documented phones that had self signed copies of LineageOS are the Pixel 4, OnePlus 7 pro and OnePlus 8t. https://xdaforums.com/t/guide-re-locking-the-bootloader-on-the-oneplus-8t-with-a-self-signed-build-of-los-18-1.4259409/
^2^: Im used to old Lenovo owned Motorola with ill supported phones. The aforementioned moto e2 lost support less than a year after launch (but that was more due the handover to Lenovo and that was a Google designed phone). A lot of their E line phones would get one version and then a new phone would drop with basically the same hardware. E4 and E5 were like that. The more expensive ones had a bit of improvement but not much more. Supposedly they want to get better with support but I won't be surprised if that promise falls short.
Auli@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 6h
Have you seen RAM and storage prices there isn't going to be any more 200 dollar phones.
sudoer777@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 1d
It's easier to compile Rust programs and emulate Wii games on phones with higher RAM/CPU/Storage
bilb@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 1d
Yeah, I'm still holding out hope for a "convergent" device I can dock and use as a PC. I've used Samsung's DeX a bit, and it's okay but I really want a Linux phone with something like a high end flagship Snapdragon SOC that gives me a normal Plasma desktop when docked. Samsung was doing Linux on DeX for like, a month or so, then discontinued it.
dubs@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 19h
The FLX1s has this feature:
https://furilabs.com/flx1s-meets-the-big-screen/
notthebees@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 7h
I'm not sure if I'm going full Luddite but phones are getting way too damn big.
6.7" is insane. My own phone is a 6 in 18:9 screen and it's too big. (I did not get a choice in my phone purchase at the time).
dubs@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 2h
That's understandable. I've long been a critic of how non-customizeable phones are. I actually prefer big phones, as my eyes are bad, but different people have different needs, and it should be trivial to adjust phones accordingly.
notthebees@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 2h
True but there aren't that many compact phones. And the phones that are being advertised as compact used to be the normal size. I'm genuinely considering getting a Zinwa Q25 or Q27, which is a gutted blackberry.
matlag@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 1d
Clearly a killing feature everyone craves... ??
protogen420@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 20h
cool, does it ship with a OS that lets me actually use it like a general purpose computer that it is? No, I am not fighting with android, I want a proper OS
KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 20h
Sigh, me too
sudoer777@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 10h
Unfortunately no, I tried using Nix on Droid and it's super buggy and Android's aggressive OOM killer and lack of systemd didn't help, NixOS-AVF on Android Terminal is probably going to be my next shot, and hopefully the Linux support on Fairphone makes more progress
Floon@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 11h
Ask Qualcomm. Only the highest level Snapdragon chips have the hardware security that the Graphene folks demand.
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
And the battery life of that thing is excellent
yxc999@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 1d
Yes, but like half the SoC power, half the RAM wouldn't change anything about how I use the phone. It's just not needed at fucking all, waste of money. I'd rather have even more battery life lmao
Auli@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 6h
Till it lags like crazy and closes all your apps.
btsax@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 19h
Or, why can't flagship phones be capable, dockable laptop replacements
yxc999@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 15h
Honestly, in that case I would buy one. But otherwise this much processing power is just absolutely unwarranted.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 29 pts · 2d
I'm actually kind of excited about this, despite it meaning my next phone is going to be more expensive than I want (or can really handle, so I'll start saving now.)
I figured this would be the case, too, for the exact reason stated in the article, the Moto G devices aren't secure enough.
BUT why I'm excited is usually Moto's flagship phones have expandable storage!!! I want nothing more from a phone than a grapheneOS phone with a microSD! I'm still mad at the cell phone market for killing expandable storage. Now if I could just convince them to give me two USB-C ports so I don't have to wear my charge port to use wired headphones...
mursejoy@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 1d
I took micro SD for granted! I miss being able to just pop a card in and upgrade.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 1d
I had (still works, just retired now) the last Samsung flagship with a micro SD as my phone until 9 months ago. Note 20 Ultra. 8 miss my s pen, still, but Samsung has been charging too much for lazy trash phones for too long now, so I bailed.
mursejoy@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1d
Unfortunately once microSD, headphone jack, and removable batteries were gone I moved to iPhone.
My thought was if I lose all the the things I like about Android, why would I not be in the more cohesive ecosystem?
I use Linux for gaming and Mac OS for work. I waited years for Android/chromeOS to catch up, but Google can’t even get a messaging app/video chat app right.
The day memory cards and removable batteries come back I’ll think about leaving.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 1d
I still like the options and alternatives I can get from android over apple.
Also, I got a thousand dollar android that stomps the hell out of what you can have from apple for $1600. Hopefully their will be better alternatives by the time I need another new phone.
BigTurkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 27 pts · 1d
Gonna buy one, gotta support the cause. We need this phone to do well.
cabbage@piefed.social · 24 pts · 1d
Edit: @plyth@feddit.org pointed out that Motorola is in fact split into two separate companies. The phone company is effectively Lenovo, so Chinese, and not related to the American surveillance technology branch.
Not sure I'd trust Lenovo/Motorola Mobility either, but that's a different story.
The main thing you're supporting is Motorola, the second biggest provider of surveillance technology in the US after Flock. Deflock lists 5% of the cameras as Motorola, but the share is increasing as backlash against Flock is growing and Flock cameras are replaced with more low key competitors.404media has reported on how Motorola cameras are used by ice."Gotta support the cause" is one hell of a dangerous sentiment under capitalism.yxc999@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 1d
Damn I guess most of us didn't know that, thank you for sharing.
cabbage@piefed.social · 5 pts · 1d
They're keeping a low profile on their surveillance technology while successfully marketing themselves as a privacy alternative in consumer tech. Its pretty fascinating to watch. I wouldn't blame anyone for missing it.
It's also worth reading up on Aviglon, a subsidiary of Motorola specializing in surveillance technology.
plyth@feddit.org · 9 pts · 1d
Different company?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola
sudoer777@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 1d
Fitting how the US part of the company does more survellance than the Chinese part
cabbage@piefed.social · 1 pts · 21h
Or so we hope, anyway.
SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 6h
GrapheneOS' cause is only theirs. They don't share with the ecosystem
TWeaK@lemmy.today · -2 pts · 1d
You're supporting diva devs selling out.
We don't need GOS to do well. We need a fully open ecosystem for phone operating systems. GOS devs don't let anyone incorporate their code.
They also refuse to provide basic functionality like inverted navbar buttons. Because they're diva devs.
prex@aussie.zone · 21 pts · 1d
Is it not open source?
TWeaK@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 1d
It's open source, but the license agreement prohibits using it in other projects. You can do it for your own personal builds, but not any published builds.
protogen420@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 20h
so, literally not open source by the OSI's definition, great
iopq@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 1d
BionicBeaver3000@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 1d
I would have liked an affordable midrange device (like Pixel 4a) with the option of graphene os preinstalled. That would unlock it as a device recommendation for my family members: Everything still works, and the device is good enough for all expected workloads. And with a growing user base comes mainstream relevance for graphene os.
Avant-garde nerds hacking their phones with custom roms may clear the path, but the normies can bring the necessary financial volume.
OscarRobin@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 1d
If they’re expensive but worth it that’s fine. Graphene powered Motorola is the only device I’d ever consider switching back to Android for.
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online · 2 pts · 1d
I got a google pixel 10 in a panic earlier this year when I heard of the lockdown just so I can have grapheneos on it.
utjebe@reddthat.com · 21 pts · 1d
Please Motorola, please make something like Pixel 4a sized or iPhone SE / 8.
Mucki@feddit.org · 4 pts · 1d
The 4a was the last light one. When I tested the newer Pixels every of the a models was much heavier. I can't get around it, why would engineers think it's a good idea to make a successor heavier and not lighter?
iopq@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Mucki@feddit.org · 1 pts · 1d
Did it improve? Seems not. An e-ink display would improve it.
xthexder@l.sw0.com · 3 pts · 1d
e-ink has terrible refresh rates and can barely handle color. It's not really a comparable display tech to oled.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 3 pts · 1d
Fun fact: it seems that it's not a limitation of the type of the display itself but a limitation from either the controller or the firmware of the display, someone on youtube managed to make an e-ink display to run at 60hHz
https://youtu.be/nHbA2-_qzH4
It doesn't look as good as an LED or OLED screen of course but it's good enough
xthexder@l.sw0.com · 1 pts · 1d
I've actually seen that video before, and the main limitation is still the pixel transition time. It's something like 200ms, so any sort of motion will have heavy ghosting. It's definitely a huge improvement over most controllers though.
If all you do is read/look at static content, e-ink is great, and that's why it's used on all the e-readers. I wouldn't want to be taking a video call on one though.
Tandem oled screens are also starting to become more of a thing, and that improves the usability in direct sun. But I don't have any problem using my phone outside as it is. I'd rather just have a bigger battery than a worse looking screen for what I do.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 2 pts · 1d
Yeah, in the end it's all about what you do, tbh i wouldn't use an e-ink for my main phone... but if there was a way to swap screens in the same way you could swap batteries in old phones i would buy an e-ink screen to swap🥹
Mucki@feddit.org · 1 pts · 1d
Everything has pros and cons. Try OLED in the sun. To me refresh rates and numb coloring are irrelevant to what I need to do on a daily basis. Most of my work on the phone is speech and reading/texting anyways.
iopq@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Mucki@feddit.org · 1 pts · 1d
My experience was that phones lasted two to three days back in the day. Before "smart"phones it would be easily a whole week.
utjebe@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 1d
Bigger screens for doomscrolling needs bigger batteries. But if you don't do that.. My Pixel 3a used to lady 3-4 days easily when it was new and running GOS.
filister@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 1d
The base Pixel is 1K Euro this year. Are they really thinking of releasing a 1K+ phone? That's absolutely insane.
Pixels used to be mid range phones with great cameras or more precisely great image processors for mid range prices to overvalued mid range phones with outdated hardware.
IMALlama@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 19h
I really liked my 3a. My wife had a 6a. I cringe when I think about either of us needing to replace what we have.
filister@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 18h
I think the 10A can be found at a good discount like 300-350€. But the base 10 and 11 are quite expensive.
Newhere@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 11h
For 300-350 € I can find just refurbished pixel 8 at best. Can you indicate where to get pixel 10 for that price?
filister@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 11h
That's 10A, not the regular Pixel 10.
Newhere@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 7h
Anyway, even pixel 9 for that price I didn't see. Send me a link, please, if you can, I am trying to buy one.
filister@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3h
Check the second hand options. I bought a brand new Pixel 10 Pro at the beginning of the year for 600€ from the second hand market from a guy who got it with his contract renewal for free. I think back then the regular Pixel was costing 500€, so I can imagine that you can find a Pixel 9 for 300-350€ in a very good condition.
lproven@social.vivaldi.net · 1 pts · 3h
@filister @Newhere
Wow. You spend more on 2nd hand phones than I like to spend on brand new ones!
hyacin@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 3h
Pixel is now (and arguably always was) an overpriced piece of garbage, fact. Googlebet realized selling Nexus units at basically cost for developers was a missed opportunity for more profit, no question.
Comparing these to Pixels though, which are actually complete garbage, makes no sense - the only similarity is that they will both support Graphene, and have the hardware to do so.
These lastest-gen Motorola devices are better compared to Oppo and Xiaomi - absolute TOP OF THE LINE TECH that we barely even get to see in the west unless we import stuff from China (as I did for my two phones prior to my current Pixel). So yes, they will cost more, but they are going to be REAL flagships, that will EASILY last 2-3 years. I think my last Xiaomi got me through three before I even thought about an upgrade, the way it used to be with the 'western' companies before they realized they can release garbage and get people to buy new practically every year.
SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 21h
Pack it up, boys, the dream's over!
JillSteinsPuckeredAnus@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 14h
hey now. hey now.
SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 7h
There isn't freedom within
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 14 pts · 1d
CAN anything be priced higher than pixels? Fuck me and my need to eat.
Echolynx@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 1d
I would be happy to support any competition to Google.
Mwa@thelemmy.club · 7 pts · 1d
yay!
i wish they released mid-range phones
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 2d
bad sign. i hope it's at least available in my country.
TwiddleTwaddle@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 19 pts · 2d
Lower end phones are supposed to be coming later. I'm honestly not surprised that the first will be a flagship
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 1d
hoping so! cheap graphene phones will be cool to have.
TeaWithDani@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1d
"GrapheneOS has supported Pixels because Google’s Tensor chips provide the necessary security features, but not all Qualcomm chips offer the same capabilities. Only Qualcomm’s most expensive 8-series processors are comparable from a security standpoint, and those only go in expensive flagship smartphones."
The price has to do with cpu types. As long as those particular chips remain expensive and top shelf, it won't reach more budget devices. Its not a malicious choice.
Ripley_Tripley@lemmus.org · 3 pts · 7h
Oh come on with these prices!! This is BS.😑 This is why I got my Teracube 2s. Its around 350 getting the degoogled version and thats it.
Your getting scammed paying over 1000+ for these phones, people, don't do it. Linux needs to come on already and make resonable priced phones.
TeaWithDani@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
Lenovo is just always killing it. Guess I'm getting one of these next.
SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 6h
lol the lack of awareness
TeaWithDani@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 5h
Why? Its a phone that supports Graphene where Google isn't trying to kill it?
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it · 3 pts · 1d
Doesn't unlocking the bootloader on a Motorola device void the warranty?
ferric_carcinization@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 1d
It can't in a lot of jurisdictions.
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it · 2 pts · 1d
It couldn't, but it does.
ferric_carcinization@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 1d
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100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it · 5 pts · 1d
Show up to a repair center with a phone running a custom ROM and try to have the people working there give a single damn about what EU law says about bootloader unlocking. I'm talking from experience, because I had to.
Anyway, I'm not even sure that Motorola could sell a smartphone with Graphene OS as its stock firmware, because Google would probably get pissed off about it.
jaypatelani@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 1d
Alongside this we need Posh based mobile system or Enlightenment Desktop environment based one
hyacin@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 3h
"priced higher than"
Don't care. GIMME GIMME GIMME.