I largely agree, yeah, you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. But when you see them spouting nonsense in public spaces, you can challenge them and have them immediately crumple.
Extremist positions are fuelled entirely by fear. One of the few successful methods is the Daryl Davis approach, where you simply communicate, act courteously, listen to their fears, and reassure them. Daryl David asked, 'How can you hate me when you don't even know me?' -- And so he treated extremists with genuine warmth and humility. You recognise their fear and treat them gently.
Other approaches are that you just question why over and over again, since extremist views are packed full of reality-denial, and having them confront that themselves gives a brief respite of self-awareness. You can ask them clarifying questions when there's a contradiction, having them spin themselves and confuse themselves about where you just repeat every new spin until they trip themselves up.
The fact of the matter is that extremists are genuinely unhappy; that's why they latch onto extremist views. Treating them with kindness and making them feel happy makes them leave the extremism. But it is exhausting, and a single mistake can undo everything. That's also why authorities of these extremists carefully remove anyone who isn't them, they can't risk that.
::: spoiler Some counter-counterpoints and general thoughts:
Sure, you can say, 'Oh, they're products of their time!' and while that can excuse some of them, it doesn't excuse others, like the Soviet Union, for example, considering Lenin decriminalised queer people (not that this was a cultural embrace of queer identity). It also doesn't excuse the modern figures, groups or nations who still hold onto discrimination and illegality of queer identities, or otherwise say their past atrocities were mistakes or 'never happened.'
There is a shining gem though, and that is Cuba, which has one of the most progressive LGBTQ+ frameworks in the Americas, and Castro publicly apologised his comments about gay people, though an apology doesn't automatically negate past atrocity. Yet, ironically, Cuba accomplished this through largely liberal means, such as a democratic public referendum and civil debate, mechanisms which are not possible in the much more powerful China, Russia and Iran because the state is afraid of conceding control to the people. Which makes you wonder, if Cuba, a much weaker socialist country can implement gay marriage while standing against Western Hegemony and the ML definition of imperialism, why can't the others?
Extremists, like tankies, operate using the same epistemic mechanics as cults, or more aptly, authoritarian groups. They maintain their worldview through strict isolation, removing all information and non-approved media and individuals as inherently corrupted by a looming, monolithic enemy, for example, Capitalism. When they are exposed to something that contradicts their views, they default to thought-termination, dismissing the contradiction as Western propaganda, or use lies and libel to distract and disregard. In the view of extremists, there is only good-versus-evil, where the evil has invariably corrupted every aspect of society, political forums, communities, organisations, or personhood.
You are either in "in the know," a tankie, or otherwise a useful idiot or someone who has been so utterly brainwashed that you cannot see "the truth," thus an enemy -- This is also why Tankies, and other extremists, can never admit wrong or defeat, to do so means that they are not "The Truth," that their dualistic, conspiratorial view of the world is instead a product of their dissonance.
When you probe tankies on Capitalism, you'll find they often only mean the West. They never mean China, even though China is more exploitative to its working class than Western nations. My experiences with them are that the shadowy figures or looming power, in this case, Capitalism, is actually the US. Since if they did mean it from a structuralist view, they'd also apply to China, which they do not. And if they do, it's with the caveat that Western influence is doing it, and this is supported by historic socialist states always referring to their flaws and faults as foreign interference. I think it's more telling, honestly, that tankies fundamentally misunderstand communist theory, which is ironic, all things considered.
They sometimes frame their support of contradictory powers and figures as the greater good. Like Hamas or Iran, for example, who are overtly against everything Tankies stand for. But because Tankies view them as the lesser evil, Tankies will show their support, with the belief they will be spared or celebrated, or that there must be sacrifices. (Naivety, really, as they are a part of Western hegemony). This is backed up by historic precedent, where you can look at anarchist and other leftist movements as an example, where once authoritarian states consolidate power over their enemies, they later destroy the useful leftists who supported them along the way, such as the Ayatollah.
Their arguments are also that progressivism and queer rights are conditional. So long as they are useful proponents of Capitalism, they will be allowed to flourish under controlled conditions. Still, at a moment's notice, the capitalist State can become fascist and authoritarian, while at the same time being blissfully ignorant that the same can be and has been done by socialist states as well. Despite that, Western Liberal Democracies and Capitalism afford more power to civil society through different forms of resistance, including lawsuits, strikes, boycotts, fundraisers, protests, and independent movements and individuals. In the modern states Tankies support, the State controls everything already, making organised resistance illegal, sometimes fatal. So queer people will still have more rights and freedoms afforded to them in the West, as they can actually resist using the system. Compared to the State already being in control. In the West, rights might be a constant battle, but the State allows you to equip yourself to resist. In the authoritarian regimes that tankies support, the State has already won and outlawed resistance.
And for arguments they cannot counter, which more often than not, reflect reality or their day-to-day lives, they remove them and hide themselves in safe spaces, protected from bitter reality and harsh truths. It's here that they are groomed and shaped into useful doctrine, and encouraged and rewarded by a like-minded community, which ends up being very much the operating apparatus of cults and cliques. In today's age, many can fall for this trap, which can lead to disastrous results: denying reality and destroying aspects of your life and others' to sustain this illusion. To know that you are not in this, ask yourself: how often do you challenge yourself and explore unknown territories? Can you admit wrong? Can you apply your morals past nations, such as recognising that liberal countries aren't perfect either?
It's here, where I believe, diversity fits nicely, forcing you to confront difference. It's also here that I remind everyone in this community to actively engage with Tankies when available to do so.
This is you claiming all citizens are military targets
Second, Israel has what’s called a Schrodinger’s civilian, in that every citizen has undergone military training so in this case I think the settlers count as military.
The instance itself. The admins, half of whom are openly tankies and actively participate in Hexbear troll campaigns, are all tech bros who love their AI and will actively silence users who are critical of it.
I wouldn't recommend dbzer0. Since the AI purge, where many users who were critical that you can't be pro-AI and anarchist at the same time were banned, the instance has been largely taken over by tankies. Even their own admins are self-proclaimed tankies, and all their popular users are tankies who have accounts on Hexbear. They're, at the very least, openly a tankie bar.
Lemmy.ml was created by the lemmy developers following the quarantine of ChapoTrapHouse on reddit. ChapoTrapHouse was the largest tankie subreddit and extremely toxic.
Following the development of Lemmy, lemmy.ml split into Lemmygrad, where Lemmygrad is where they hold their more extreme opinions and lemmy.ml is supposed to be the more presentable side. However, the users are largely the same. One's mask-off, one's mask-on.
if that person relates themselves to dictators' bodies, then they probably deserve that shame, no?
Community spaces? like parks?
except dbzer0 and SJW
It's funny how much south korea triggers them.
idunno, push comes to shove and if you're too different then you're likely to be removed from a community. That's been my experience.
From my experience, being different is a threat to any community. But you are right, yeah.
I largely agree, yeah, you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. But when you see them spouting nonsense in public spaces, you can challenge them and have them immediately crumple.
Extremist positions are fuelled entirely by fear. One of the few successful methods is the Daryl Davis approach, where you simply communicate, act courteously, listen to their fears, and reassure them. Daryl David asked, 'How can you hate me when you don't even know me?' -- And so he treated extremists with genuine warmth and humility. You recognise their fear and treat them gently.
Other approaches are that you just question why over and over again, since extremist views are packed full of reality-denial, and having them confront that themselves gives a brief respite of self-awareness. You can ask them clarifying questions when there's a contradiction, having them spin themselves and confuse themselves about where you just repeat every new spin until they trip themselves up.
The fact of the matter is that extremists are genuinely unhappy; that's why they latch onto extremist views. Treating them with kindness and making them feel happy makes them leave the extremism. But it is exhausting, and a single mistake can undo everything. That's also why authorities of these extremists carefully remove anyone who isn't them, they can't risk that.
Tankies rarely leave their houses, so that communist group is probably fine?
::: spoiler Some counter-counterpoints and general thoughts: Sure, you can say, 'Oh, they're products of their time!' and while that can excuse some of them, it doesn't excuse others, like the Soviet Union, for example, considering Lenin decriminalised queer people (not that this was a cultural embrace of queer identity). It also doesn't excuse the modern figures, groups or nations who still hold onto discrimination and illegality of queer identities, or otherwise say their past atrocities were mistakes or 'never happened.'
There is a shining gem though, and that is Cuba, which has one of the most progressive LGBTQ+ frameworks in the Americas, and Castro publicly apologised his comments about gay people, though an apology doesn't automatically negate past atrocity. Yet, ironically, Cuba accomplished this through largely liberal means, such as a democratic public referendum and civil debate, mechanisms which are not possible in the much more powerful China, Russia and Iran because the state is afraid of conceding control to the people. Which makes you wonder, if Cuba, a much weaker socialist country can implement gay marriage while standing against Western Hegemony and the ML definition of imperialism, why can't the others?
Extremists, like tankies, operate using the same epistemic mechanics as cults, or more aptly, authoritarian groups. They maintain their worldview through strict isolation, removing all information and non-approved media and individuals as inherently corrupted by a looming, monolithic enemy, for example, Capitalism. When they are exposed to something that contradicts their views, they default to thought-termination, dismissing the contradiction as Western propaganda, or use lies and libel to distract and disregard. In the view of extremists, there is only good-versus-evil, where the evil has invariably corrupted every aspect of society, political forums, communities, organisations, or personhood.
You are either in "in the know," a tankie, or otherwise a useful idiot or someone who has been so utterly brainwashed that you cannot see "the truth," thus an enemy -- This is also why Tankies, and other extremists, can never admit wrong or defeat, to do so means that they are not "The Truth," that their dualistic, conspiratorial view of the world is instead a product of their dissonance.
When you probe tankies on Capitalism, you'll find they often only mean the West. They never mean China, even though China is more exploitative to its working class than Western nations. My experiences with them are that the shadowy figures or looming power, in this case, Capitalism, is actually the US. Since if they did mean it from a structuralist view, they'd also apply to China, which they do not. And if they do, it's with the caveat that Western influence is doing it, and this is supported by historic socialist states always referring to their flaws and faults as foreign interference. I think it's more telling, honestly, that tankies fundamentally misunderstand communist theory, which is ironic, all things considered.
They sometimes frame their support of contradictory powers and figures as the greater good. Like Hamas or Iran, for example, who are overtly against everything Tankies stand for. But because Tankies view them as the lesser evil, Tankies will show their support, with the belief they will be spared or celebrated, or that there must be sacrifices. (Naivety, really, as they are a part of Western hegemony). This is backed up by historic precedent, where you can look at anarchist and other leftist movements as an example, where once authoritarian states consolidate power over their enemies, they later destroy the useful leftists who supported them along the way, such as the Ayatollah.
Their arguments are also that progressivism and queer rights are conditional. So long as they are useful proponents of Capitalism, they will be allowed to flourish under controlled conditions. Still, at a moment's notice, the capitalist State can become fascist and authoritarian, while at the same time being blissfully ignorant that the same can be and has been done by socialist states as well. Despite that, Western Liberal Democracies and Capitalism afford more power to civil society through different forms of resistance, including lawsuits, strikes, boycotts, fundraisers, protests, and independent movements and individuals. In the modern states Tankies support, the State controls everything already, making organised resistance illegal, sometimes fatal. So queer people will still have more rights and freedoms afforded to them in the West, as they can actually resist using the system. Compared to the State already being in control. In the West, rights might be a constant battle, but the State allows you to equip yourself to resist. In the authoritarian regimes that tankies support, the State has already won and outlawed resistance.
And for arguments they cannot counter, which more often than not, reflect reality or their day-to-day lives, they remove them and hide themselves in safe spaces, protected from bitter reality and harsh truths. It's here that they are groomed and shaped into useful doctrine, and encouraged and rewarded by a like-minded community, which ends up being very much the operating apparatus of cults and cliques. In today's age, many can fall for this trap, which can lead to disastrous results: denying reality and destroying aspects of your life and others' to sustain this illusion. To know that you are not in this, ask yourself: how often do you challenge yourself and explore unknown territories? Can you admit wrong? Can you apply your morals past nations, such as recognising that liberal countries aren't perfect either?
It's here, where I believe, diversity fits nicely, forcing you to confront difference. It's also here that I remind everyone in this community to actively engage with Tankies when available to do so.
:::
no you claimed that civilians count as military targets if they have undergone military training
You're saying civilians count as military targets because they may have undergone military training, yes.
This is you claiming all citizens are military targets
I never appointed those people as mod. Not sure who did and why. But I'm back now, and I've reversed your ban.
shoutout when their idol, Hasan, had to stop streaming as Police questioned him about a meme that he flashed on camera.
The instance itself. The admins, half of whom are openly tankies and actively participate in Hexbear troll campaigns, are all tech bros who love their AI and will actively silence users who are critical of it.
I wouldn't recommend dbzer0. Since the AI purge, where many users who were critical that you can't be pro-AI and anarchist at the same time were banned, the instance has been largely taken over by tankies. Even their own admins are self-proclaimed tankies, and all their popular users are tankies who have accounts on Hexbear. They're, at the very least, openly a tankie bar.
Lemmy.ml was created by the lemmy developers following the quarantine of ChapoTrapHouse on reddit. ChapoTrapHouse was the largest tankie subreddit and extremely toxic.
Following the development of Lemmy, lemmy.ml split into Lemmygrad, where Lemmygrad is where they hold their more extreme opinions and lemmy.ml is supposed to be the more presentable side. However, the users are largely the same. One's mask-off, one's mask-on.
I didn't ban this user and their ban is an instance one. They must've violated the instance-wide rules, probably hate speech.
Worth noting I didn't ban this guy