@thenetnetofthenet I looked at a new Master 140 in the store yesterday. Could just make out the caps through the plastic clam-shell package. How well they're hidden varies.
It's really vague... but it looks like one is starting to show here. Pointer is just touching the top of a caps edge, maybe...🤔
@thenetnetofthenet@SlippiHUD To figure out the correct keypin locations... slide your key into the cylinder. Next drop the suspected pin into a hole. If it's correct it will sit flush with the top of the cylinder. If it's higher/lower it's in the wrong position😉
@thenetnetofthenet Usually there is a larger cap for shackle latches on one side near top. I don't have a 140... but image of an old G. C. W & Co. padlock that shows caps. Pretty much all brass padlocks with just a core fit into the body like that are built this way🤷♂️
This is a four pin core, the fifth pin is for retaining the core and maybe limiting rotation.
It also looks like Master used a 5 pin core on your lock but didn't populate the 5th hole🙄
Usually that last pin (6) is held in solid without a spring. They are or use to be assembled via the top pin side through holes in the lock body. Tiny brass caps are forced into the holes and then they are sanded flat to the body. Hard to see the caps at that point. Check out LockpickingDev's video here for what the side looks like with the caps removed.
@WrenHavoc I've never seen one quite like that... Would guess it was made from a rake or rather a broken rake. Somebody reground what was left slightly so it was still useful🤷♂️
For instance, here are several Sparrows rakes. Note how similar they are to your image up to the second bend.
@Jerb322 There used to be a website called "wheelpost.com" that had a lot of older S&G manuals. Seems you may be able to still access it via Archive.com:
@pineapplelover Seems you already have some rakes around so as to be exposed to their use. I wouldn't add any then till you want to try more with them🙂
"...it’s more of a luck based tool and doesn’t require that much skill..."
Biggest mistake I made early on was believing that raking was easy and luck. Picking the right rake and using a tension tool that has a chance of working with it is a skill. Knowing to move on to a different rake if you don't get an open rather than just burnishing pins down. I've locks that I've never been able to open SPP'ing but will fall to a rake attack in seconds. I'd rather be able to SPP it but just knowing the lock can be opened is valuable to my psyche😉
@pineapplelover If you're new to this go slow. As you progress you'll take a liking to certain picks, techniques and then wonder why you bought some items you don't like or use😉
That said... ssdev hooks and TOK type tension tools are very handy to have on hand. That looks like a decent selection of items for a good start. Though you don't have any Rakes in your mix. Some skill is needed to use a rake well but it is much easier than SPP'ing. Keep something like the Rakers set in mind too, maybe for a future order. Even just a single Bogota (Triple Rake) style rake would be good. I also like their Worm Rake. Both are in this set:
@Hux In looking at the keys via AZ you'll notice the "notch" in the key changes positions by small amounts and sometimes to the opposite side. This is to work with different warding. It prevents the key from working in all the locks it might fit into🙂
@greenish@lockpicking
👍 Way out of my class, that is one nasty lock to try picking open
😬
Hadn't heard of Opnus before. Brief search through some of their patents and they have some nasty stuff for lockpickers...
Don't know if this little wafer lock was ever made but it has quite the trap/false gate on the wafers.
@thenetnetofthenet I looked at a new Master 140 in the store yesterday. Could just make out the caps through the plastic clam-shell package. How well they're hidden varies.
It's really vague... but it looks like one is starting to show here. Pointer is just touching the top of a caps edge, maybe...🤔
@thenetnetofthenet @SlippiHUD To figure out the correct keypin locations... slide your key into the cylinder. Next drop the suspected pin into a hole. If it's correct it will sit flush with the top of the cylinder. If it's higher/lower it's in the wrong position😉
@thenetnetofthenet The rough sanding done when they're made hides the caps quite well.
Haven't tried this... I'd try sanding the side down to a smoother, shiny surface and see that helps to reveal them🤷♂️
@thenetnetofthenet Usually there is a larger cap for shackle latches on one side near top. I don't have a 140... but image of an old G. C. W & Co. padlock that shows caps. Pretty much all brass padlocks with just a core fit into the body like that are built this way🤷♂️
This is a four pin core, the fifth pin is for retaining the core and maybe limiting rotation.
It also looks like Master used a 5 pin core on your lock but didn't populate the 5th hole🙄
@thenetnetofthenet Hee Hee Hee... Not seen one pulled apart like that😆
Usually that last pin (6) is held in solid without a spring. They are or use to be assembled via the top pin side through holes in the lock body. Tiny brass caps are forced into the holes and then they are sanded flat to the body. Hard to see the caps at that point. Check out LockpickingDev's video here for what the side looks like with the caps removed.
https://youtu.be/vKusWIckVNY?t=319
@WrenHavoc I've never seen one quite like that... Would guess it was made from a rake or rather a broken rake. Somebody reground what was left slightly so it was still useful🤷♂️
For instance, here are several Sparrows rakes. Note how similar they are to your image up to the second bend.
@Jerb322 This may help some. Seems to be standard pins with a wicked keyway unlike Medeco's angled pins and side-bars.
https://lockwiki.com/index.php/Medeco_KeyMark
@pezhore @ilovecheese Might want to post some images, showing the problem and/or the Name+Model for the lock in question.
There are quite a few different size tubular locks and not all of them can be tensioned in the same way.
If you know the name/model... you could also try searching youtube with it and see if anyone else has opened it and what they used😉
@Jerb322 There used to be a website called "wheelpost.com" that had a lot of older S&G manuals. Seems you may be able to still access it via Archive.com:
https://web.archive.org/web/20191112002128/http://www.wheelpost.com/
Might be able to find parts manual and instructions there. Patent number in your picture may also help:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US2575674A/en
Looks like some fun🙂
@Jerb322 Very nice👍 I would have been all-over-that too🙂
@pineapplelover Seems you already have some rakes around so as to be exposed to their use. I wouldn't add any then till you want to try more with them🙂
"...it’s more of a luck based tool and doesn’t require that much skill..."
Biggest mistake I made early on was believing that raking was easy and luck. Picking the right rake and using a tension tool that has a chance of working with it is a skill. Knowing to move on to a different rake if you don't get an open rather than just burnishing pins down. I've locks that I've never been able to open SPP'ing but will fall to a rake attack in seconds. I'd rather be able to SPP it but just knowing the lock can be opened is valuable to my psyche😉
@pineapplelover If you're new to this go slow. As you progress you'll take a liking to certain picks, techniques and then wonder why you bought some items you don't like or use😉
That said... ssdev hooks and TOK type tension tools are very handy to have on hand. That looks like a decent selection of items for a good start. Though you don't have any Rakes in your mix. Some skill is needed to use a rake well but it is much easier than SPP'ing. Keep something like the Rakers set in mind too, maybe for a future order. Even just a single Bogota (Triple Rake) style rake would be good. I also like their Worm Rake. Both are in this set:
https://www.sparrowslockpicks.com/products/rakers-lock-pick-set
@pineapplelover @Greenish Not sure where you're located... but you can get practice locks like this:
https://www.sparrowslockpicks.com/collections/cut-away-practice-locks
and get the Reload kit so you can change pins around yourself.
https://www.sparrowslockpicks.com/products/reload-kit
@Hux In looking at the keys via AZ you'll notice the "notch" in the key changes positions by small amounts and sometimes to the opposite side. This is to work with different warding. It prevents the key from working in all the locks it might fit into🙂
@Hux The key in the image appears to be for a warded lock. You can buy blank keys similar to that. For instance:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=blank+hollow+key
You may be able to remove some warding (could be necessary on either side of the key) and get a key to work.
Look up Skeleton Key Warding to learn more about this.
@greenish @lockpicking
👍 Way out of my class, that is one nasty lock to try picking open
😬
Hadn't heard of Opnus before. Brief search through some of their patents and they have some nasty stuff for lockpickers...
Don't know if this little wafer lock was ever made but it has quite the trap/false gate on the wafers.
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DJP7048070B2