Great points, thanks much! I really like the way you phrase challenging the bigotries. Is it okay if I quote you in a followup article?
I was just talking about this general dynamic in a discussion about tone policing on fedi ... on the one hand yes, there is a history of annoying tone policying (often with racialized overtones) here but on the other hand some of what gets described as tone policiing is actually very justified call-ins and call-outs of bigoted statements.
Yeah, don't listen to anybody who says "they can't fine me or sue me if I'm in a different state" or "they can't do anything about it if they win." Of course we don't know who they'll target when they start enforcing the law, and it's possible that the law will be found unconstitutional ... still, they can fine you, and they can sue, so if you decide not to geoblock them yet make sure you're thinking through the risks.
I haven't seen anything yet on how strong a defense geoblocking Mississippi will be in practice. Bluesky obviously thinks it puts them in a stronger position than not geoblocking, but at this point we really don't know.
Most do but not all. And similarly most of the replies on Mastodon show up here but not all. So to follow the entire conversation you have to look in both places.
Thanks for the update. It really is exhausting, and depressing; you're right about Wyoming being next, and there's loads of others out there as well.
And It really is our fight to. Laws like this are part of a worldwide attack on independent social media, as well as trans and queer people, people looking for reproductive health care, youth in general, and sex workers. It's a really challenging situation.
yeah it really is tiring and depressing. It isn't clear what the risks really are right now, and how that might change over time. It's also not completely clear how much geoblocking will reduce the risks' at least with the Online Safety Act, regulators said earlier this year that geoblocking is sufficient -- although of course they could change their minds at some point. Really hard to know what to do ...
Other apps can ignore the geoblock. From the Bluesky announcement:
This decision applies only to the Bluesky app, which is one service built on the AT Protocol. Other apps and services may choose to respond differently.
Yeah. Interesting to think if there are ways to get around that problem. Still, very interesting work @rozodru@lemmy.world, and great idea splitting it out into an extension!
Agreed, it's all about changing the cost-benefit analysis, great framing. And also agreed, blocking -- and/or shifting to allow-list federation or something more nuanced (to deal with the point @CameronDev@programming.dev makes about Meta just being able to spin up a new instance -- is a really important complement to preventing scraping.
Yeah I think most admins are concerned about both. And whether or not it's "stealing" (in the legal sense), a lot of people want to keep their content and personal information out of these AI systems.
wafrn and Hubzilla both do this. But in general, developers of most ActivityPub-based platforms prefer to focus on AP, and already have a lot on their plate; Bluesky wants to focus on AT, and similarly has a lot on their plate; and most users don't actually care that much ... so nobody's likely to prioritize it.
It's an interesting perspective. Historically the fediverse was more European; Mastodon is based in Germany and initially got a lot of traction in France, NLNet has contributed a lot of the funding, and there's historically more adoption by European governmental organizations than US. But these days a lot of the energy is being driven by corporate interests (Flipboard, Wordpress, Meta, Ghost) which are primarily American (Ghost being the only exception), so that's leading to a change of dynamics. Distressing, especially given what's going on here in the US!
Great suggestions, thanks very much!
good to know, I'll include i link to it!
Thanks -- those are useful guides, I'll include links to them.
Great point ... it comes from a good place but all the suggestions can be really overwhelming (especially when they sometimes contradict each other).
Great points, thanks much! I really like the way you phrase challenging the bigotries. Is it okay if I quote you in a followup article?
I was just talking about this general dynamic in a discussion about tone policing on fedi ... on the one hand yes, there is a history of annoying tone policying (often with racialized overtones) here but on the other hand some of what gets described as tone policiing is actually very justified call-ins and call-outs of bigoted statements.
Yeah, don't listen to anybody who says "they can't fine me or sue me if I'm in a different state" or "they can't do anything about it if they win." Of course we don't know who they'll target when they start enforcing the law, and it's possible that the law will be found unconstitutional ... still, they can fine you, and they can sue, so if you decide not to geoblock them yet make sure you're thinking through the risks.
I haven't seen anything yet on how strong a defense geoblocking Mississippi will be in practice. Bluesky obviously thinks it puts them in a stronger position than not geoblocking, but at this point we really don't know.
It's ignorant how you don't realize that Spark and Blacksky have built their own stacks on AT Protocol.
Most do but not all. And similarly most of the replies on Mastodon show up here but not all. So to follow the entire conversation you have to look in both places.
Thanks for the update. It really is exhausting, and depressing; you're right about Wyoming being next, and there's loads of others out there as well.
And It really is our fight to. Laws like this are part of a worldwide attack on independent social media, as well as trans and queer people, people looking for reproductive health care, youth in general, and sex workers. It's a really challenging situation.
yeah it really is tiring and depressing. It isn't clear what the risks really are right now, and how that might change over time. It's also not completely clear how much geoblocking will reduce the risks' at least with the Online Safety Act, regulators said earlier this year that geoblocking is sufficient -- although of course they could change their minds at some point. Really hard to know what to do ...
Joys of federation. https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/30731823/16032284
Other apps can ignore the geoblock. From the Bluesky announcement:
Yeah. Interesting to think if there are ways to get around that problem. Still, very interesting work @rozodru@lemmy.world, and great idea splitting it out into an extension!
Yep. Ryan (the only BridgyFed dev at the time) really did absorb the feedback and changed direction, and Anuj also gets the importance of consent.
Agreed, it's all about changing the cost-benefit analysis, great framing. And also agreed, blocking -- and/or shifting to allow-list federation or something more nuanced (to deal with the point @CameronDev@programming.dev makes about Meta just being able to spin up a new instance -- is a really important complement to preventing scraping.
Thanks! Does it seem like that's affective, or are you getting the feel that that the bots are just changing user agent to get aroud it?
Yeah I think most admins are concerned about both. And whether or not it's "stealing" (in the legal sense), a lot of people want to keep their content and personal information out of these AI systems.
wafrn and Hubzilla both do this. But in general, developers of most ActivityPub-based platforms prefer to focus on AP, and already have a lot on their plate; Bluesky wants to focus on AT, and similarly has a lot on their plate; and most users don't actually care that much ... so nobody's likely to prioritize it.
It's an interesting perspective. Historically the fediverse was more European; Mastodon is based in Germany and initially got a lot of traction in France, NLNet has contributed a lot of the funding, and there's historically more adoption by European governmental organizations than US. But these days a lot of the energy is being driven by corporate interests (Flipboard, Wordpress, Meta, Ghost) which are primarily American (Ghost being the only exception), so that's leading to a change of dynamics. Distressing, especially given what's going on here in the US!
Thanks! "Feckless" is a good description of the admin response :)