It's an analogy mate. "Them not being police officers" is a difference not important to the core of the analogy.
You're looking at something like "a pen is to write as a knife is cut" and saying "a knife can write by carving".
But it would be dumb to generalize all "911 callers" as ACAB. It would be correct to criticize the "911 callers" that use the institutions of white supremacy to harass and abuse black people. That's the point. There is a line between "Christian church attendees" and "the church" itself. That line is can be crossed by attendees. But they are not the church themselves.
Same goes for "911 callers". All pay taxes and some benefit and exploit the the structures of white supremacy.
I'm all of "all Catholic priest are bastards" as their relationship with the church cannot exist without knowledge of its crimes and the institutional backing of those crimes. They uphold the structures directly.
But to say that "all Catholics are bastards" would be removing the material reasons for the ACPAB and instead placing the claim within the framing of Idealism
There are plenty of Christians with that kinder interpretation though. You think Ms. Rachel is advocating for child abuse because she's Christian?
The "/r/atheist" position is to tell those that are religious what they believe. It's like telling someone what their music taste is. If a Christian is using their religion to justify their bigotry or abusive behavior; you can call that out. But religion isn't a strict adherence to a religious text. It's significantly more about community and unique to every person.
Edit: I'm not a Christian or religious. I just believe people when they tell me what they believe. I don't try to tell them they believe something else.
There is this political maneuver that is being embraced by DSA politicians that is preparing for the inevitable right wing anti Zionist candidate (like Tucker Carlson).
They seem to be attempting to move to the "we want to understand and listen to everyone". It's a fucking trap and will be absolutely destroyed by the "what's going on?" Propaganda from Tucker and Candice.
It's liberalism to the core and it will be seen as weak political pandering in a 2028 world in which Americans are blaming Israel entirely for the material decline.
The answer is NOT to talk to Zionist. The answer is to truly connect the Zionist interest to the interest of our ruling capitalist class. Fuck listening to Zionist. I'm sorry, you're not reaching out to the Jewish community.
The American Jewish community is disconnecting itself from Israel more and more each day. Especially among the younger generation. You LEAD this change. You don't follow it.
Disconnect Jewish identity from Zionism. Ignore the Jewish Zionist saying they "don't feel heard". Fuck them. They are Nazis the same as the Christian Zionist. Stop treating a Jewish Zionist as something special that you don't do for the larger population of Christian Zionist. Stop treating them with kiddie gloves.
Disconnect from Zionist. They are modern day Nazis.
Fight the right on the material concerns of the working class. Fight the Tuckers on their class interest. Don't make the 2028 election about the US being "controlled by Israel". We will lose that fight. We will lose because we are not addressing the full contradictions of capitalism. And the far right is significantly better at lying to avoid contradictions. We can't do that.
If we are going to win we HAVE to abandon this liberal idealism around "hearing people" that are our enemies. Fuck Zionist.
It's things like this that confirm to me that Trump and most of his administration are not true ideological fascist. Ideological fascist would be sure to maintain some level of support from their ground troops. Things like this show me that there are some ideological fascist within the admin; but, Trump himself, is entirely focused on things that benefit him directly. Trump is enjoying stealing billions. If doing fascist shit helps him do that (and it does) he will. If it actually causes him some personal sacrifice he is not going to do that to obtain some "fascist objectives". It's why he doesn't care if ICE is successful as long as it's implementation is exploitable for his own personal profit.
It's why when people treat him like Hitler it's not quite fair. Hitler had real ideology he wanted to implement and was not only guided by increasing his wealth. Trump uses ideology and propaganda specifically to benefit himself. He is a "crypto fascist" that has built the foundations for an ideological fascist to take power in.
It limits this rise in fascism to an extent that a true ideological fascist wouldn't. It's also worrying to imagine a real ideological fascist and white supremacist like Tucker Carlson or a puppet fascist like JD Vance being in power. They would be smart enough to fill the pockets of their brown shirts.
I agree. I may have misunderstood your first comment. Material acts like rent strikes and labor strikes are important in the "peaceful" part of resistance.
Which is it then? Do we organize in nonviolent ways? Do we organize in violent ways? Or would Americans continue to do nothing if their schools were being bombed?
There is a limit for every person. That was my point. Americans have their limit too; it's just not genocide in Gaza or bombing civilians in Iran.
I think you underestimate how much Trump absolutely despises red states as well. He just hates poor people. He says shit his base will like. But have you seen the absolute destruction to Texas, Georgia, etc with datacenters? He doesn't fucking care. The only group he gives material benefits to are the ICE agents terrorizing cities.
Hey, there is at least ONE racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, libertarian representative from Kentucky that ALSO happens to not be ok with child porn and pedophiles.
Like, the bar is so fucking low that Thomas fucking Massie is at the top of it in that party.
Like, I think we might need some reeducation camps at some point guys. We can make them more comfortable and humane than "gulags" or whatever. But, what the fuck do we do with these people otherwise? Seriously, I want to know. What else can undo this level of rot in our society?
Don't worry. America and parts of Europe will start deporting military aged men back to Ukraine. And we'll still fly your flag right under Israels. More bodies for the war machine.
Or as our elected officials say "best money we've ever spent" and "we haven't lost a single soldier"
Talking to an inactive American and an inactive non American is very similar. I'm saying this so you can hopefully understand the frustration. You have your own and I get that. But, when I try to get people to organize here I often get the same replies.
I didn't vote for this
No one I know cares
Protesting/organizing doesn't change things
Now, what I will say in response is different. So I'll change here for non Americans. But, your inaction is also complacency (if you're in a state that is allied with America).
If you're not American - YOU CAN STILL HELP! YOU can organize for measures against the US and Israel from your own country. That helps those of us in America that are actually organizing resistance.
Its so fucking frustrating as someone working every day to stop this shit having to deal with the same inactive useless criticism from both Americans that "didn't vote for this" and then also get the same useless inactive non Americans repeating the same "not my problem" bullshit.
If you care about a problem. Do something. Stop pretending there is nothing you can do because "I didn't vote for him".
I didn't either. But I don't make it my whole identity go justify doing nothing.
Edit: This is largely directed at Europeans that cry about this over and over not realizing that they would be the same inactive useless liberals saying "I didn't vote for him" if they lived in America.
To be honest, the best targets (from Irans point of view) are NOT states that are heavily in support of Trump.
If your goal is to cause resistance and unrest in the population it is best to target the material conditions of the regions with high density populations. This is going to be "blue" no matter what state is targeted.
But, of course this is not reasonable in reality either. The targets are going to be those of opportunity. ANY security that can be exploited.
Iran is having bridges and civilian infrastructure destroyed by a country that attacked them in aggression. OUR country did that (if you're American). You're not out in the street everyday demanding it stop. You didn't stop paying rent demanding it stop. You didn't go on strike demanding it stop.
So, until Americans actually feel some consequences for their inaction, you're not special because you didn't vote for Trump. You're just as inactive against this war as a Trump voter that heard him say "no new wars" and nothing else. He's president. Pointing to the past saying you didn't want it does nothing. WHAT DO YOU DO NOW? Because if it was your schools and bridges I hope you wouldn't just stop at blaming Trump supporters.
We'd all be protesting, striking, and refusing to pay rent if we had our schools getting bombed because of our government. But we don't when the victims aren't Americans. We pretend we're not responsible and keep enjoying our comfortable lives while saying "I didn't vote for this" as a reason to remain inactive.
Have you tried getting buzzed at a bar lately? I'm 6'3" and 215lbs. If I wanted to drink enough to reduce my social anxiety I need at least 4 "drinks". This means at a minimum $10 per drink (crappy beer usually) or even $20-$30 for some places cocktails.
I'm not spending $40-$120 plus tip to get buzzed with friends at a bar. Yeah, there are some exceptions, cheeper bars or whatever. But unless you're an alcoholic trying to min max your public drinking it's not where you're friends are gonna end up. People go out to drink to have fun. And drinks are just insanely expensive.
If I want to get buzzed with friends I'll go buy a 12 pack, order pizza, and play some board games or something. Drinking at a bar is a 2 drink max for me. And that's only if we're heading back home to keep drinking. Otherwise, with my tolerance, I just paid $35 for a couple worse tasting drinks.
It's an analogy mate. "Them not being police officers" is a difference not important to the core of the analogy.
You're looking at something like "a pen is to write as a knife is cut" and saying "a knife can write by carving".
But it would be dumb to generalize all "911 callers" as ACAB. It would be correct to criticize the "911 callers" that use the institutions of white supremacy to harass and abuse black people. That's the point. There is a line between "Christian church attendees" and "the church" itself. That line is can be crossed by attendees. But they are not the church themselves.
Same goes for "911 callers". All pay taxes and some benefit and exploit the the structures of white supremacy.
I'm all of "all Catholic priest are bastards" as their relationship with the church cannot exist without knowledge of its crimes and the institutional backing of those crimes. They uphold the structures directly.
But to say that "all Catholics are bastards" would be removing the material reasons for the ACPAB and instead placing the claim within the framing of Idealism
The the equivalent of including anyone that's ever called 911 in ACAB.
There are plenty of Christians with that kinder interpretation though. You think Ms. Rachel is advocating for child abuse because she's Christian?
The "/r/atheist" position is to tell those that are religious what they believe. It's like telling someone what their music taste is. If a Christian is using their religion to justify their bigotry or abusive behavior; you can call that out. But religion isn't a strict adherence to a religious text. It's significantly more about community and unique to every person.
Edit: I'm not a Christian or religious. I just believe people when they tell me what they believe. I don't try to tell them they believe something else.
His Charlie Kirk memorial song for anyone that might also enjoy that kind of thing.
https://youtu.be/NNBuN7DwJwM
There is this political maneuver that is being embraced by DSA politicians that is preparing for the inevitable right wing anti Zionist candidate (like Tucker Carlson).
They seem to be attempting to move to the "we want to understand and listen to everyone". It's a fucking trap and will be absolutely destroyed by the "what's going on?" Propaganda from Tucker and Candice.
It's liberalism to the core and it will be seen as weak political pandering in a 2028 world in which Americans are blaming Israel entirely for the material decline.
The answer is NOT to talk to Zionist. The answer is to truly connect the Zionist interest to the interest of our ruling capitalist class. Fuck listening to Zionist. I'm sorry, you're not reaching out to the Jewish community.
The American Jewish community is disconnecting itself from Israel more and more each day. Especially among the younger generation. You LEAD this change. You don't follow it.
Disconnect Jewish identity from Zionism. Ignore the Jewish Zionist saying they "don't feel heard". Fuck them. They are Nazis the same as the Christian Zionist. Stop treating a Jewish Zionist as something special that you don't do for the larger population of Christian Zionist. Stop treating them with kiddie gloves.
Disconnect from Zionist. They are modern day Nazis.
Fight the right on the material concerns of the working class. Fight the Tuckers on their class interest. Don't make the 2028 election about the US being "controlled by Israel". We will lose that fight. We will lose because we are not addressing the full contradictions of capitalism. And the far right is significantly better at lying to avoid contradictions. We can't do that.
If we are going to win we HAVE to abandon this liberal idealism around "hearing people" that are our enemies. Fuck Zionist.
It's things like this that confirm to me that Trump and most of his administration are not true ideological fascist. Ideological fascist would be sure to maintain some level of support from their ground troops. Things like this show me that there are some ideological fascist within the admin; but, Trump himself, is entirely focused on things that benefit him directly. Trump is enjoying stealing billions. If doing fascist shit helps him do that (and it does) he will. If it actually causes him some personal sacrifice he is not going to do that to obtain some "fascist objectives". It's why he doesn't care if ICE is successful as long as it's implementation is exploitable for his own personal profit.
It's why when people treat him like Hitler it's not quite fair. Hitler had real ideology he wanted to implement and was not only guided by increasing his wealth. Trump uses ideology and propaganda specifically to benefit himself. He is a "crypto fascist" that has built the foundations for an ideological fascist to take power in.
It limits this rise in fascism to an extent that a true ideological fascist wouldn't. It's also worrying to imagine a real ideological fascist and white supremacist like Tucker Carlson or a puppet fascist like JD Vance being in power. They would be smart enough to fill the pockets of their brown shirts.
I agree. I may have misunderstood your first comment. Material acts like rent strikes and labor strikes are important in the "peaceful" part of resistance.
Which is it then? Do we organize in nonviolent ways? Do we organize in violent ways? Or would Americans continue to do nothing if their schools were being bombed?
There is a limit for every person. That was my point. Americans have their limit too; it's just not genocide in Gaza or bombing civilians in Iran.
I think you underestimate how much Trump absolutely despises red states as well. He just hates poor people. He says shit his base will like. But have you seen the absolute destruction to Texas, Georgia, etc with datacenters? He doesn't fucking care. The only group he gives material benefits to are the ICE agents terrorizing cities.
Tadpoles?
The League of Nations condemns Germany for rebuilding their military in violation of international law!
Didn't attack the apartheid state. Must have been just an "odd gesturing" of a request.
Hey, there is at least ONE racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, libertarian representative from Kentucky that ALSO happens to not be ok with child porn and pedophiles.
Like, the bar is so fucking low that Thomas fucking Massie is at the top of it in that party.
Like, I think we might need some reeducation camps at some point guys. We can make them more comfortable and humane than "gulags" or whatever. But, what the fuck do we do with these people otherwise? Seriously, I want to know. What else can undo this level of rot in our society?
She can't be too smart if he's still alive.
Don't worry. America and parts of Europe will start deporting military aged men back to Ukraine. And we'll still fly your flag right under Israels. More bodies for the war machine.
Or as our elected officials say "best money we've ever spent" and "we haven't lost a single soldier"
https://youtube.com/shorts/OGOVevGHNXY
When you're stuck between an invading force that wants you dead; and an "ally" that doesn't even count your deaths as meaningful.
Thanks. I don't know if it's helpful in changing their minds. But, I'm just exhausted; and tired of people grandstanding on their own uselessness.
Talking to an inactive American and an inactive non American is very similar. I'm saying this so you can hopefully understand the frustration. You have your own and I get that. But, when I try to get people to organize here I often get the same replies.
Now, what I will say in response is different. So I'll change here for non Americans. But, your inaction is also complacency (if you're in a state that is allied with America).
If you're not American - YOU CAN STILL HELP! YOU can organize for measures against the US and Israel from your own country. That helps those of us in America that are actually organizing resistance.
Its so fucking frustrating as someone working every day to stop this shit having to deal with the same inactive useless criticism from both Americans that "didn't vote for this" and then also get the same useless inactive non Americans repeating the same "not my problem" bullshit.
If you care about a problem. Do something. Stop pretending there is nothing you can do because "I didn't vote for him".
I didn't either. But I don't make it my whole identity go justify doing nothing.
Edit: This is largely directed at Europeans that cry about this over and over not realizing that they would be the same inactive useless liberals saying "I didn't vote for him" if they lived in America.
To be honest, the best targets (from Irans point of view) are NOT states that are heavily in support of Trump.
If your goal is to cause resistance and unrest in the population it is best to target the material conditions of the regions with high density populations. This is going to be "blue" no matter what state is targeted.
But, of course this is not reasonable in reality either. The targets are going to be those of opportunity. ANY security that can be exploited.
Iran is having bridges and civilian infrastructure destroyed by a country that attacked them in aggression. OUR country did that (if you're American). You're not out in the street everyday demanding it stop. You didn't stop paying rent demanding it stop. You didn't go on strike demanding it stop.
So, until Americans actually feel some consequences for their inaction, you're not special because you didn't vote for Trump. You're just as inactive against this war as a Trump voter that heard him say "no new wars" and nothing else. He's president. Pointing to the past saying you didn't want it does nothing. WHAT DO YOU DO NOW? Because if it was your schools and bridges I hope you wouldn't just stop at blaming Trump supporters.
We'd all be protesting, striking, and refusing to pay rent if we had our schools getting bombed because of our government. But we don't when the victims aren't Americans. We pretend we're not responsible and keep enjoying our comfortable lives while saying "I didn't vote for this" as a reason to remain inactive.
I try not to look like an alcoholic. But sometimes you gotta to save some money.
Have you tried getting buzzed at a bar lately? I'm 6'3" and 215lbs. If I wanted to drink enough to reduce my social anxiety I need at least 4 "drinks". This means at a minimum $10 per drink (crappy beer usually) or even $20-$30 for some places cocktails.
I'm not spending $40-$120 plus tip to get buzzed with friends at a bar. Yeah, there are some exceptions, cheeper bars or whatever. But unless you're an alcoholic trying to min max your public drinking it's not where you're friends are gonna end up. People go out to drink to have fun. And drinks are just insanely expensive.
If I want to get buzzed with friends I'll go buy a 12 pack, order pizza, and play some board games or something. Drinking at a bar is a 2 drink max for me. And that's only if we're heading back home to keep drinking. Otherwise, with my tolerance, I just paid $35 for a couple worse tasting drinks.