Summary
At the Munich Security Conference, JD Vance criticized European leaders for suppressing free speech, mishandling migration, and ignoring populist concerns.
He questioned whether Europe’s values still aligned with America’s and warned of a “threat from within,” rather than Russia or China.
His speech, which largely avoided discussing Ukraine, shocked attendees and drew condemnation from EU and German officials but was praised by Russian state media.
Vance’s private meeting with Germany’s far-right AfD leader and his dismissal of mainstream politicians further deepened tensions between the U.S. and Europe.
56 Comments
Naich@lemmings.world · 210 pts · 1y
Putin is getting a brilliant return on his investment.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 75 pts · 1y
Russia: Great intelligence services, shit army, no navy
Spacehooks@reddthat.com · 9 pts · 1y
Well got to min max and humans historical max out the Intel Stat versus other animals so it's traditionally move. Plus you know, massive embezzlement opportunities.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1y
If they could stop drinking for a couple decades I think they could do some awesome stuff. When the Soviets first took power they were prohibitionists, and that generation of Russians went on to beat the Nazis and launch Sputnik, despite Stalin.
Russia feels like the kid in school who you know is abused but is an asshole because of being abused. The Golden Horde was awful, to be sure, but we all need to let the healing happen.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1y
Also makes me think of a guy I know who I went to high school with, just incredibly smart. Ended up getting to the National Science Fair and got an honorable mention and also a bunch of newspaper attention. Fifteen years later, he was in prison for getting caught with a backpack full of meth cooking equipment.
I can't remember the last time I saw him sober. Even after he got out of prison, I don't know if he was still doing meth, but I only ever saw him in bars drunk off his ass after that.
He's still a super nice guy, but his brain is basically scrambled eggs.
Spacehooks@reddthat.com · 5 pts · 1y
Reminds me of family guy Ireland before whisky.
https://youtu.be/7-yQ4s6IBec?ZGzGcnBg86TWheeA
If they ever do, maybe They can something like in Atomic Heart. Good communist technology for all people to enjoy right now I'm questioning if murica can not be a cyberpunk dystopia. Which would also fall in like with Atomic Heart....
tym@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1y
Carmakazi@lemmy.world · 121 pts · 1y
Shutting out far-right racists and literal foreign agitators
Racism
More racism
Feels like the New Axis is starting to take tangible shape.
ACbHrhMJ@lemmy.world · -18 pts · 1y
Are you calling it racism because Vance said it, or would you claim that anyone who thinks migration in Europe has been mishandled is racist?
Carmakazi@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 1y
Perhaps some genuine criticism could be levied at the specifics of their immigration policy, but this is JD Vance, that's not what he's here for.
When he talks about "shared values" and "what you are fighting for" he's talking about white Christian dominance in Europe and defending it with the sword. The far right has long seen Europe as a failure of progressive decadence and moral weakness and this speech was a blatant expression of that.
That is why the far right rejects European countries and cozies up to Russia, because the American conservative and the Russian nationalist have quite a lot of "shared values."
ACbHrhMJ@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1y
Thanks for clarifying, that is reasonable
ookiiBoy@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 1y
I now know I'm truly not on reddit.
Tja@programming.dev · 0 pts · 1y
This is the exception. Usually it's even worse than reddit, especially when ml joins the thread.
Tja@programming.dev · 2 pts · 1y
Vance racist? He loves his wife despite her being Indian!
Soup@lemmy.world · 97 pts · 1y
“Vance leaves the US and thinks the rest of the world thinks of highly of him as his brain-dead countrymen do.”
He’s such a fucking buffoon.
smeenz@lemmy.nz · 17 pts · 1y
He's just reading what his Russian speech writer told him to.
hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 88 pts · 1y
"blistering attack" is one way to say it, I'd say bigoted rambling is better way to describe it
lewdian69@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 1y
Hey, at least they didn't use "slammed" again.
lefixxx@lemmy.world · 48 pts · 1y
Fuck off with that BS. We don't need you authoritarians to illegitimise our leaders, insert a racism wedge between us and misrepresent what our "populous" wants. We know that our values are not aligned with a conservative, VP-to-fucking-trump, Putin's puppet, project 2025 POS. And we don't need to look for a "threat of within" when we need to stand united against russia and now US influence.
When AfD neo nazis, the richest asshole in the world, the US leadership, Putin and north Korea all praise and support each other we can see through your BS.
scarabic@lemmy.world · 47 pts · 1y
“The mice in fact are tyrannical oppressors for not opening the door to listen to what the fox has to say!” - JD Vance
Nope, mister G.O.Pudge, we do not have to include Nazis.
Klear@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 1y
What does the fox say?
scarabic@lemmy.world · 41 pts · 1y
Dear Goober-Veep,
The threat from within is the Nazis, not the people who refuse to listen to the Nazis. They’ve been handling Nazis longer than you’ve been alive. Shut your fucking pizza pie hole.
ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 1y
That dipshit has no right to criticize anyone.
This is the guy who is an apologist to anti-Indian hate speech... while being married to an ethnic Indian.
scarabic@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1y
He’s nothing more than a performer now. Ask yourself every time: who is he performing for right now that he believes will increase his political power? I’m not sure why he wants power. He wouldn’t know what to do with it.
pivot_root@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 1y
Alienating whatever remaining trade partners you had outside of the two local ones, which your friends in the administration tariffed and threatened to annex, is going to go tremendously. Sure are putting America First... in line to find out what happens when no other country is willing to trade their resources with us or buy our goods.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1y
Unless AfD gains power. Which is one of the reasons they want AfD to gain power. Part of the new Axis is part of the old Axis.
WheelcharArtist@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 1y
the french did some great stuff with just a metal blade
T00l_shed@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 1y
And a bit of timber.
ech@lemm.ee · 27 pts · 1y
"Blistering" suggests it had merit.
kablammy@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 1y
I prefer to think of it as likening his opinions to cold sores.
notsoshaihulud@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 1y
Not sure if European couches are into the whole eyeliner thing.
krimson@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1y
Yeah wtf is up with that??
b161@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 21 pts · 1y
America is a big dumb golem used to do the violent bidding of whoever is able to control it - mainly Israel and Russia.
Tja@programming.dev · 8 pts · 1y
A mere 1B donation get you control of a 800B a year military. Talk about ROI!
sircac@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 1y
I think this people have long already disqualified their ability to speech anything worth of coherent value, why keep listening them or take note of their words? They do not follow the rules of that game, is not possible to play on the same terms so that battleground is a distraction at best, a cancer at worst.
Don’t feed the troll, don’t support the bully.
TheFriar@lemm.ee · 5 pts · 1y
Lol is this a tongue in cheek self aware comment? I had to start and restart each sentence a few times.
Nikelui@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 1y
It's not a threat from within, when you have blatantly switched sides and are on the "outside".
Tm12@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 1y
They want to weaponize you against me because I may not look like everyone on the “inside” even though I clearly am.
Stovetop@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 1y
luciferofastora@feddit.org · 10 pts · 1y
We're about to see how the next elections turn out. Maybe all is not lost yet.
MyOpinion@lemm.ee · 15 pts · 1y
Europe America is lost. Protect yourselves from us.
Muffi@programming.dev · 7 pts · 1y
We will be squished in between Putin and his lapdog. Fuck this timeline.
yournamehere@lemm.ee · 6 pts · 1y
death to america?
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1y
Tja@programming.dev · 2 pts · 1y
https://theonion.com/fbi-uncovers-al-qaeda-plot-to-just-sit-back-and-enjoy-c-1819576375/
tym@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1y
UpperBroccoli@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 1y
This timeline starts to feel more and more like the fourth season of Lexx.
earphone843@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1y
I completely forgot about that show. What a trip
pubquiz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1y
Etterra@discuss.online · 2 pts · 1y
The least useful, biggest idiot.
rottingleaf@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 1y
That's fine, people with dignity don't have "leaders". That's about JD too.
And there are feedbacks in human societies, meaning that AfD and such would have much less popularity if, first, they had a less stinky alternative as "counter-system" parties, second, were not given publicity as a scarecrow, third, were not given media pressure.
It's natural that in some conditions people run from the political mainstream and want something not associated with that swamp. It's also natural that "black PR" is still PR, it puts AfD (or someone else) on a list of associations in one's mind as being against that mainstream (no matter how fascist or populist). And it's also natural that when you see media pressure, you want to push back.
People making decisions love to think in directions, but in fact thinking in categories and weights between them is better. Like with diversifying investments. If you invest a lot in the left-vs-right dynamic, no matter which side, the results are unpredictable, but you affect their possible magnitude, the more you invest, the more it is. So if someone puts a lot of pressure "to fight fascism", they might cause a rebirth of fascism that wouldn't have happened otherwise.
For the same reason I'm still not sure Trump is worse for Ukraine than someone else. You have to end the war at some point. If there's no military way to restore Ukraine's sovereignty over all of its territory, that may realistically be attempted, then that won't happen anyway. They are not suggesting Ukraine to recognize annexation, but even if they were, the old world order is dying, and formal sovereignty in the UN might do little good in future. Some things they say suggest they may do for Ukraine a lot of what Ukrainians love to dream about in terms of restoration and armaments. Just - also controlling Russia by allowing it to sell its resources again. Probably with a deal worse for Russia than before, and the resulting prices might be less competitive than before.
FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 1y
I think Vance is a tool, but can someone explain how these two points aren't objectively true?
reddig33@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 1y
“In Germany, a firewall has long existed preventing mainstream parties from engaging with the far-right Alternative für Deutschland owing to its Nazi origins. But Vance said there was no room for such barriers.”
Is this the ‘populism’ you’re so concerned about?
While Vance is whining about European censorship, his boss in the US is throwing legitimate press organizations out of the White House briefing room and removing any mention of people of color or LGBT people from education and government documentation.
FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 1y
I didn't mention the censorship because he is wrong about that
I also don't agree with his quote about "no need for barriers". I wasn't aware he had said that.
He is referring to the poor handling of migration in Europe, which is true. And the general ignoring of popular outrage at how migration is managed.
That he is a fascist dickhead is indicative of the problem. Many many people who are not racist think migration is handled terribly in Europe and the problem is moderate politicians are hopelessly slow to engage with this and as a result the only people talking about it are fascist nutbags...
reddig33@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 1y
For Vance, this is just “otherism”. It’s an old trick — your problems are not something you actually need to take responsibility for — it’s all the fault of the “others” in your country. While migration may be a hot mess, the republicans play the card of “all crime is due to these others”. Pay no attention to the grifters elected in the US currently stealing all your money and data.
FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1y
Indeed. Which makes it an even bigger problem that there are hardly enough moderate politicians saying "here's what we hear you saying about migration and he's what we will actually do to rectify that"
reddig33@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 1y
It’s a good point you make.
boredtortoise@lemm.ee · 7 pts · 1y
Migration being a model for creating both a scapegoat and a lowest of the low wage slavery class is a capitalist and fascist strategy. Vance acts as a critic of it, but right wingers, populists, are never onboard with enabling new residents to have better chances, education, work etc.
Tabula_stercore@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1y
"Mishandling migration" is a pessimist position. With this position you can be wrong all the time, and then when an event occurs that false in the pessimistic view "you" claim full victory. It is similar to the story of doctors and a terminal patient that keeps outliving the diagnosis (although doctors dont celebrate the moment thay are proven right).
For example why "populist concerns" are not to be taken too seriously are football hooligans. True (white) nationals tearing down city centres, yet you don't hear anything about "bad integration" or "religion of peace", or any conversation from that corner.
ACbHrhMJ@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 1y
If you follow that logic nobody is allowed to genuinely criticise immigration policy.
Tja@programming.dev · 2 pts · 1y
I can try: