cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/65102495
The Israeli government's actions in Gaza "can no longer be justified," said German Chancellor Friedrich Merz on Monday, signalling a profound shift in tone from one of Europe's traditionally most staunch supporters of Israel.
22 Comments
TanteRegenbogen@feddit.org · 20 pts · 1y
They stopped being justified when they started bombing vital civil infrastructure. So basically an initial response and targeted bombing of Hamas would have been justified, but not indiscriminate bombing.
mjhelto@lemm.ee · 4 pts · 1y
Exactly! As soon as they started bombing everything and using safe zones to group up civilians to bomb them easier, I was done listening to anyone suggesting they were jUsT dEfEnDiNg ThEmSeLvEs. You don't bomb civilians and children and you don't bomb the places you've outlined as refugee safe zones, medical units, or journalists. Bunch of fucking monsters.
pastermil@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 1y
Took you a while...
bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de · 14 pts · 1y
Meh, let's see some action. Merz likes to talk a lot.
pastermil@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1y
True. Tho this is not the kind of thing somebody would back out of. Not without some serious repercussion anyway.
SpicyLizards@reddthat.com · 13 pts · 1y
They were always unjustifiable
Melchior@feddit.org · -2 pts · 1y
Getting the hostages back?
SpicyLizards@reddthat.com · 6 pts · 1y
I agree, getting the hostages back is essential to peace. I'm sure that was not the point you were trying to make, however.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_war_hostage_crisis
Melchior@feddit.org · 4 pts · 1y
Sounds like a good plan to me.
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1y
Israel also applies systemic rape and torture to the 'prisoners,' many are arrested arbitrarily via administrative detention. This includes hundreds of children as well
Israel has also repeatedly stated that returning the hostages are secondary to 'eliminating Hamas' aka the full ethnic cleansing of Gaza. On the other hand, Hamas has proposed a full prisoner exchange and peace resolution since Oct 8th, along with agreeing to the UN proposal that passed
EuroMod@feddit.org MOD · -1 pts · 1y
Is there a source for that?
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1y
Yes
Palestinians denied civil rights (HRW) including Military Court (B'TSelem)
Palestinian Prisoners in Israel (wiki)
Children are jailed and abused in Israeli prisons (Save The Children)
Stripped, beaten and blindfolded: new research reveals ongoing violence and abuse of Palestinian children detained by Israeli military - (Save The Children)
Torture and Abuse in Interrogations (B'TSelem)
Thousands of Palestinians are held without charge under Israeli detention policy (NPR)
Urgently investigate inhumane treatment and enforced disappearance of Palestinians detainees from Gaza (Amnesty)
Shocking testimony: Torture in Israeli prisons, “sexual assaults even using dogs"
Why raping Palestinians is legitimate Israeli military practice
'Everything is legitimate’: Israeli leaders defend soldiers accused of rape
Extent of systematic torture, atrocities endured by Palestinians in Israeli prisons is shocking
Israel/OPT: Horrifying cases of torture and degrading treatment of Palestinian detainees amid spike in arbitrary arrests (Amnesty)
UN Report Details Vast, Systemic Torture of Palestinians in Israeli Detention
B'TSelem Welcome to Hell
EuroMod@feddit.org MOD · 0 pts · 1y
Thanks. So, to me, from the sources you linked, it seems "systemic abuses/torture" is justifiable claim. "Systemic rape" seems like a claim that might be over the line — even as raping prisoners is apparently accepted among certain strata of Israeli society. /f
federalreverse@feddit.org · 6 pts · 1y
Many Israelis actually marched against the war plans right from the start, because they knew it wasn't about hostages.
ucoward@lemmings.world · -1 pts · 1y
nun@lemm.ee · -1 pts · 1y
Who cares? And what part of the Israeli government’s actions tells you they care at all whether their hostages live or die?
Saleh@feddit.org · 11 pts · 1y
I had written this in a different thread regarding the topic already. I think it is important to understand that these remain hollow words, unless there is actual real actions taken, something the German government continues to oppose.
Etterra@discuss.online · 5 pts · 1y
They couldn't be justified in the fucking first place. Some of us were smart enough to figure that out on day 1. What the fuck do these morons even get paid for?
foni86@lemm.ee · 3 pts · 1y
How incredibly cruel must things be for a German leader to dare criticize Israel? I know it's a lukewarm criticism and has no real repercussions, but still, I didn't think I'd ever see something like this
oakey66@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1y
He just wanted Israel to constantly edge the population into being genocided. Never quite reaching a full genocide.
ucoward@lemmings.world · -1 pts · 1y