Damned if we vote, damned if we don't. We're not allowed to criticize or call out behavior or opinions that harm us. I guess the upside is I get to enjoy a little "eww"phoria for being treated like a woman when it comes to having my concerns taken seriously. Fuck I hate living here.
"Vote blue no matter who" crowd on their way to solely blame (realistically) 50-100k leftists who abstained either due to their views on electorialism or Palestine.
I've seen so much braindead shit online about the loss and "what could be done different", like statistics showing that if only uni educated people voted then Kamala would have won and people supporting this idea, making lists of every leftist who said they wouldn't vote to punish them later or something, prohibiting MAGA voters from voting ever again, etc. These same people then proceed to cry fascism.
Where's your better candidate doing more to beat MAGA?
Where's your hard work to get them through primaries onto the ballot?
Getting more progressives in office doesn't start with "not voting".
It ends with voting for them when you show us a better candidate & get them on the ballot.
So far, the best contender seems to be the only one putting up a real fight.
Show us a better alternative worthy of a coalition, and do the hard work of building that coalition around them.
MAGA did the hard work.
They infiltrated all levels of government, all legislatures, executive posts of several states.
They built coalitions from the bottom up.
MAGA (and the Tea Party before them) also ripped apart anyone who didn't get on with their program. They didn't say "but we need to unite against the radical left!!!". The left will need to do that too.
There was one option that could be forced to be good for Palestine, but liberals were like "but my unity against fascism!!!!" and browbeat progressives into silence. Remember Uncommitted? Well I fucking do, so congratulations on Trump.
Tankies are really showing their privilege. They aren't under seige so they can afford to wait and keep their self perceived purity. Harm minimization isn't ideal, but does help more than getting out of the way for fascism.
There are more than just presidential elections, and those often matter more, yet they still discourage people from showing up. Then they wonder why candidates they like stay on the fringe.
We could have more AOCs and Mamdanis. But please explain why letting Republicans win uncontested and sell even more weapons is helpful? Pretty much everything is better with the dems, even the ones that we should replace with progressive (which we won't thanks to tankies no showing)
PSA if you read carefully you'd see I'm agreeing with you and asking you for help and for my efforts your working twice as hard to leave me in a worse political situation
We had two more. Cori Bush and Jamaal Bowman. Your pro-genocide-and-nothing-else wing of the party only ever protects centrist incumbents though.
But please explain why letting Republicans win uncontested and sell even more weapons is helpful? Pretty much everything is better with the dems, even the ones that we should replace with progressive (which we won’t thanks to tankies no showing)
It isn't. Maybe democrats should offer an alternative instead of just slightly less of the same shit.
PSA if you read carefully you’d see I’m agreeing with you
No. You're carrying water for a candidate that is no longer running because people said she shouldn't have supported genocide. Your objection is to the genocide opposition.
I'm not gloating. I was pissed Harris was the only option besides Trump, but I'm not an idiot and voted for her because at least with her we'd have elections in 4 years.
And at least with her there was a chance, albeit slim, that she only supported Israel in her campaign to get donations then would do what all politicians do and go back on their promises. Or at least see reason, something Trump would never do.
I voted for her because she was less terrible than trump. I bitterly resent everyone who manipulated the situation so that I had no choice but to vote in favor of genocide.
Anyone who carries water for genocide supporters IS a genocide supporter.
"Then they came for the undocumented migrants, because I told them nobody cared about Trans people, and those people have dark skin so they make me uncomfortable"
Go to the .ml serversvand remind them why its important and that there are more than just presidential elections. They'll put more effort onto justify their no show than taking an evening to do so.
To be clear I'm not even disagreeing with their complaints. But their discourse on not voting keeps us form moving left. Voting is an important part. Harm minimization is still important to many vulnerable people.
How about you went to the streets before you got a duopoly of genocide apologists to become your only option? Oh no, but but but, my team was bEtTeR.
But nooooo, you were fine with genocide as long as it didn't affect you, and the multiple wars abroad before that. And now, you guys have to pretend to protest the dismantling of your own nation. Seems very much like karma, doesn't it?
So, well done. The system led to Trump, not the opinions on genocide in Palestine. US has a history of being fine with worse. If you can't see that and find blame someone else to blame, you're too far in your own ass to see it.
Dude with this mindset no one could ever live a normal life. At any given moment in your life there is slavery, genocide, whatever going on. Any of which could be a reason to take to the streets in your mind. So since you're not in the streets about slavery going on in the world you're fine with it? You're not in the streets about sex trafficking are you, I guess you just don't care about sex trafficking and it's victims because it doesn't impact you. This is how you sound.
But of course, you lecture the masses oh wise one. Tell us the error of our ways, how did we stray from the path only you can see?
If your country is doing sex trafficking and slavery (the latter at least is true) then yes, that is something you should take to the streets for. Something happening and something being done with your tax dollars are two completely different things. Don't project your lack of moral principles and/or spine on other people.
I don't even know half the horrible things the US is doing. And the EU is doing plenty of messed up stuff too. Same with Asia. So wait, every single person should be in the streets then? What country are you from? Why are you not in the streets?
Again, what the actual fuck are you talking about?
Your reading comprehension must be absolutely horrendous, because at no point did I say anything that would have remotely suggested that I would do such a thing.
Anyone using Newsom as an excuse to not vote against fascism is nowhere on the left. Not a liberal, not a leftist, not a progressive.
Newsom signed a bill that cut a lot of services to address the deficit. It didn't "target" any one group, and anyone who says it did is a right-wing agitator.
Anyone who pretends Newsom is a deal-breaker was never, EVER going to vote blue regardless.
When we say "Newsom backstabbed homeless people" we're talking more about the making homelessness illegal part.
It didn't "target" any one group, and anyone who says it did is a right-wing agitator.
"Everyone I don't like is MAGA" isn't how you make coalitions if you actually care about that (which I doubt). Well too bad, because the very act of cutting services is targeting the state's most vulnerable.
Anyone who pretends Newsom is a deal-breaker was never, EVER going to vote blue regardless.
71 Comments
WatDabney@fedia.io · 42 pts · 364d
At this point, every attempt at this ludicrously dishonest spin can and should be met with the same one-word response - "Mamdani."
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 35 pts · 363d
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 363d
"Vote blue no matter who" - PUMA PAC alumni.
Cruxifux@feddit.nl · 29 pts · 364d
The stupidity of saying that it’s the left backstabbing the liberals is just infuriating. These people are hopeless.
RedSeries@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 26 pts · 364d
Damned if we vote, damned if we don't. We're not allowed to criticize or call out behavior or opinions that harm us. I guess the upside is I get to enjoy a little "eww"phoria for being treated like a woman when it comes to having my concerns taken seriously. Fuck I hate living here.
commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 363d
"Vote blue no matter who" crowd on their way to solely blame (realistically) 50-100k leftists who abstained either due to their views on electorialism or Palestine.
I've seen so much braindead shit online about the loss and "what could be done different", like statistics showing that if only uni educated people voted then Kamala would have won and people supporting this idea, making lists of every leftist who said they wouldn't vote to punish them later or something, prohibiting MAGA voters from voting ever again, etc. These same people then proceed to cry fascism.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 363d
And just like that, centrists have always hated both MST3k and Rifftrax.
_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus · 10 pts · 363d
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · -1 pts · 363d
Where's your better candidate doing more to beat MAGA? Where's your hard work to get them through primaries onto the ballot?
Getting more progressives in office doesn't start with "not voting". It ends with voting for them when you show us a better candidate & get them on the ballot.
So far, the best contender seems to be the only one putting up a real fight. Show us a better alternative worthy of a coalition, and do the hard work of building that coalition around them.
MAGA did the hard work. They infiltrated all levels of government, all legislatures, executive posts of several states. They built coalitions from the bottom up.
The left will need to do at least as much work.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 363d
The left has two parties fighting against them. maga had (and has) zero parties fighting against them.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io · 8 pts · 363d
MAGA (and the Tea Party before them) also ripped apart anyone who didn't get on with their program. They didn't say "but we need to unite against the radical left!!!". The left will need to do that too.
_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus · -5 pts · 364d
onslaught545@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 364d
Alright, so tell me which viable candidate would have been good for Palestine.
shalafi@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 364d
Harris would have been better than Trump. What are you trying to argue?
P00ptart@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 364d
That's their point.
onslaught545@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 363d
That is what I'm trying to argue. There was no option that was good for Palestine, so using that as your sticking point was stupid.
At least with Harris there was a slim chance she'd see reason.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io · 0 pts · 363d
There was one option that could be forced to be good for Palestine, but liberals were like "but my unity against fascism!!!!" and browbeat progressives into silence. Remember Uncommitted? Well I fucking do, so congratulations on Trump.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 363d
Tankies are really showing their privilege. They aren't under seige so they can afford to wait and keep their self perceived purity. Harm minimization isn't ideal, but does help more than getting out of the way for fascism.
There are more than just presidential elections, and those often matter more, yet they still discourage people from showing up. Then they wonder why candidates they like stay on the fringe.
Voting isn't everything, but it does matter.
irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 363d
Are these tankies in the room with us?
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 363d
Let me know if democrats ever have a candidate who doesn't get out of the way for fascism.
When they're not actively helping it by selling it weapons, adopting its immigration policies, and agreeing with it about vulnerable minorities.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 363d
We could have more AOCs and Mamdanis. But please explain why letting Republicans win uncontested and sell even more weapons is helpful? Pretty much everything is better with the dems, even the ones that we should replace with progressive (which we won't thanks to tankies no showing)
PSA if you read carefully you'd see I'm agreeing with you and asking you for help and for my efforts your working twice as hard to leave me in a worse political situation
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 363d
We had two more. Cori Bush and Jamaal Bowman. Your pro-genocide-and-nothing-else wing of the party only ever protects centrist incumbents though.
It isn't. Maybe democrats should offer an alternative instead of just slightly less of the same shit.
No. You're carrying water for a candidate that is no longer running because people said she shouldn't have supported genocide. Your objection is to the genocide opposition.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 363d
Gloat more. It's all you're doing. You got your genocide. Stop trying to make everyone love it as much as you do.
onslaught545@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 363d
I don't think you know what the word 'gloat' means.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 363d
Gloating and gaslighting now. Unsurprising.
onslaught545@lemmy.zip · -4 pts · 363d
You still don't seem to know what the word means
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 363d
Gloat that such a choice was unavailable.
onslaught545@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 363d
I'm not gloating. I was pissed Harris was the only option besides Trump, but I'm not an idiot and voted for her because at least with her we'd have elections in 4 years.
And at least with her there was a chance, albeit slim, that she only supported Israel in her campaign to get donations then would do what all politicians do and go back on their promises. Or at least see reason, something Trump would never do.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 363d
I voted for her because she was less terrible than trump. I bitterly resent everyone who manipulated the situation so that I had no choice but to vote in favor of genocide.
Anyone who carries water for genocide supporters IS a genocide supporter.
_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus · 3 pts · 364d
kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 363d
"Then they came for the undocumented migrants, because I told them nobody cared about Trans people, and those people have dark skin so they make me uncomfortable"
Lightor@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 363d
Jesus, you people make up things in your head and get mad at them just like MAGA
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 363d
You people act reprehensibly toward vulnerable minorities and then gaslight anyone who notices.
Just. Like. maga.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 363d
Tankies aren't serious people and often discourage a shift left by abstaining from voting
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 363d
Anyone who wants better than a choice between genocide or genocide with a light patch where the BLM sticker used to be must be a tankie.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 363d
Well they aren't serious about the material results and neither are the tankies
irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 363d
I don't think you know what a tankie is.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io · 5 pts · 363d
Proof that leftists don't vote?
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 363d
Bald assertion, repeated with enough frequency. Nothing more.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 363d
Go to the .ml serversvand remind them why its important and that there are more than just presidential elections. They'll put more effort onto justify their no show than taking an evening to do so.
To be clear I'm not even disagreeing with their complaints. But their discourse on not voting keeps us form moving left. Voting is an important part. Harm minimization is still important to many vulnerable people.
jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 364d
onslaught545@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 364d
That doesn't answer my question. Specifically what candidate, besides Harris, stood a chance of beating Trump that would have been good for Palestine?
njm1314@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 363d
You can go ahead and get rid of the besides Harris part of your sentence there since she didn't.
onslaught545@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 363d
That was to the 'stood a chance at beating Trump' part.
njm1314@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 363d
I know.
0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 363d
How about you went to the streets before you got a duopoly of genocide apologists to become your only option? Oh no, but but but, my team was bEtTeR.
But nooooo, you were fine with genocide as long as it didn't affect you, and the multiple wars abroad before that. And now, you guys have to pretend to protest the dismantling of your own nation. Seems very much like karma, doesn't it?
So, well done. The system led to Trump, not the opinions on genocide in Palestine. US has a history of being fine with worse. If you can't see that and find blame someone else to blame, you're too far in your own ass to see it.
Lightor@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 363d
Dude with this mindset no one could ever live a normal life. At any given moment in your life there is slavery, genocide, whatever going on. Any of which could be a reason to take to the streets in your mind. So since you're not in the streets about slavery going on in the world you're fine with it? You're not in the streets about sex trafficking are you, I guess you just don't care about sex trafficking and it's victims because it doesn't impact you. This is how you sound.
But of course, you lecture the masses oh wise one. Tell us the error of our ways, how did we stray from the path only you can see?
_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus · 6 pts · 363d
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io · 5 pts · 363d
If your country is doing sex trafficking and slavery (the latter at least is true) then yes, that is something you should take to the streets for. Something happening and something being done with your tax dollars are two completely different things. Don't project your lack of moral principles and/or spine on other people.
Lightor@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 363d
I don't even know half the horrible things the US is doing. And the EU is doing plenty of messed up stuff too. Same with Asia. So wait, every single person should be in the streets then? What country are you from? Why are you not in the streets?
jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 363d
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 363d
Keep gloating that your only policy was going to be enacted and that none of the rest of us had any meaningful choice.
If harris had done the right thing, you would have voted for trump.
onslaught545@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 363d
What the actual fuck are you talking about?
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 363d
If harris had said that she would stop selling weapons for genocide, you would have voted for trump.
onslaught545@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 363d
Again, what the actual fuck are you talking about?
Your reading comprehension must be absolutely horrendous, because at no point did I say anything that would have remotely suggested that I would do such a thing.
morphballganon@lemmynsfw.com · -6 pts · 363d
No they're not.
Anyone using Newsom as an excuse to not vote against fascism is nowhere on the left. Not a liberal, not a leftist, not a progressive.
Newsom signed a bill that cut a lot of services to address the deficit. It didn't "target" any one group, and anyone who says it did is a right-wing agitator.
Anyone who pretends Newsom is a deal-breaker was never, EVER going to vote blue regardless.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io · 8 pts · 363d
When we say "Newsom backstabbed homeless people" we're talking more about the making homelessness illegal part.
"Everyone I don't like is MAGA" isn't how you make coalitions if you actually care about that (which I doubt). Well too bad, because the very act of cutting services is targeting the state's most vulnerable.
Tinfoil hat much?
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 363d
Anyone for whom newsom is acceptable would vote for trump over any progressive. Without hesitation.