Had an argument with my dad about The Orville. He said it was too 'woke' and political. I told him that's exactly what makes it feel like good classic Trek.
That's what I don't get. It's like the people saying Sesame Street has gotten too woke. Were you even paying attention the first time? That's what I liked about many episodes of The Orville: it felt like classic Star Trek because it was pushing the envelope of social and philosophical issues through a sci-fi lens.
He asked me if he would like SNW and I wasn't sure what to tell him. The cast may be more diverse, but honestly the plots have largely been focused on action.
I would definitely put Farscape ahead of the others because itās had such a profound impact on the creators and writers of other space opera shows since its run, including newer Star Trek.
Babylon 5 is very good if one skips all but the āmust see episodesā of season one. The original principal actor suffered a major health crisis between the pilot and the first season. His wooden, not present performance, really damages that season but the other actors and show is very much worth the effort to watch around that.
I would also throw some 1970s classics in to the mix if OP enjoyed TOS. Space 1999 is definitely worth a watch, especially season one. BSG, the original, is a fun ride.
For a show thatās ambitious and appallingly bad all at once, but that features some classic Trek actors and writers, āThe Starlostā is a hoot. It really deserves to be purposed for memes.
I can honestly say that I have tried to get into SG1 several times but it never sticks. (I really liked the movie though.). I started again recently and drifted away in the middle of season one.
I agree with your assessments. Although I've never liked Space 1999, original BSG or Buck Rogers that much. Especially the original BSG, which had a very bad late 70s vibe akin to Love Boat, Six Million Dollar Man, The Incredible Hulk and Man From Atlantis lol
SGĀ°1 is fairly light hearted. The first season has the lowest average rating and boasts some of the worst rated episodes in the entire show. After that it gets consistently good. Up until Season 9/10 that is, when you suddenly have Farscape in your SG universe, and an ass-pull of a new "race" appears.
But by then you would start watching SG Atlantis, and the diamond in the rough that is Stargate Universe. The later which somehow makes it all worth it.
Ok, perhaps I should just power through SG season one and see if I can get into it.
BSG definitely is very late 70s American but, as a Canadian, I find Buck Rogers even worse. I donāt think I made it through two or three episodes at most.
You can watch a large chunk of UC with dubs. ZZ isn't dubbed, and a few of the newest ones aren't dubbed yet, but otherwise it's probably one of the more accessible anime to get into.
If you've only seen highlights I would say it's a good time to just start episode 1 of 0079 and roll it. It's not like every episode is amazing, but it's fun and cool to see where the story begins.
When I say Gundam I mean UC. Some of the other shows are entertaining, but they don't feel like real Gundam to me. UC has hard sci-fi elements, political, space and mech battles. It's a mix that hits pretty hard for me. Most of the non-UC shows are either goofy, or not 'real robots', or set mostly on earth.
As a Gundam fan in the west, you really have to turn to the pirates. Part of me wishes Sunrise/Bandai would get their shit together and get it all available, but as somebody who has followed the series since the late 90s it's kind of always been this way. You can buy the Blu Rays if that's your thing, but you can also find everything in great quality from multiple sites.
OG Gundam was too... cheesy? Juvenile? Old-fashioned? Anyway, I'm halfway through Gundam Wing right now.
Help.
Either we lost something in translation, the plot is super cut-down in order to adapt the manga into 50 episodes, or these characters really don't make a lot of sense.
Putting TOS as 3rd is just wrong, have you even watched it recently? Absolute terrible opinions good sir, especially having the greatest musical of all time so low on the list.
I watch TOS relatively frequently, watched a few episodes the other day. Itās a really fantastic show, more great episodes in the first season than some other shows have their entire run. The Spock/Kirk/McCoy dynamic is as special as it has ever been. Pacing is slower, which I like, and even a lot of the mediocre eps do a really nice job setting up a mystery that they actually solve.
Thereās also a lot of truly awful eps, and highly outdated bits, but a great show.
Also, much like Janeway I donāt appreciate being called sir, maāam will do in a pinch. (I know Star Trek was trying to be progressive by using sir universally, but I find it mildly sexist)
And I agree, it hurt to put Voyager as low as it was, the doctorās rendition and alteration of la Donna e mobile was as brilliant as you state, but still had to put TNG higher, so many great episodes.
The only good part of the musical (with the exception, maybe, of the Connected song), is my K-boys dropping some clap back at the end. It's my ring tone for my work and my daughter (because the only time they call instead of text it's because they have some dramas).
I think PRO should rank above ENT just because ENT cranks the horniness to 10 to the point of interfering with characterization and character development. True, Prodigy is kid-oriented, so it canāt be that horny, but still.
However, I can understand PRO ranking lower overall because the classic series and LD are so good and PRO, for all its virtues, does have its flaws.
I mean, I canāt even stand Jankom until season 2; Rokās similarly a bit a annoying, but becomes a bit more bearable after the timeline. Also, the styleās a bit inconsistent; most of the main cast looks fine (Rokās eyes could do to be a bit smaller), but real Janeway looks a bit out of Shrek, the Doctor just looks strange, and many of the background and minor characters looks really uncanny valley.
Also, although I think the plots are better than DIS, the whole ābig badā, āletās save the entire universe twiceā thing is still a bit tiring.
I think Mr. Tysess is absolutely beautiful with his gigantic chin, though, and I am astonished how much of that beautiful ārandom Ensign on Picardās bridgeā quality Daveed Diggsās voice has (Thomas Jefferson is not very Starfleet). I need more Daveed Diggs in Star Trek!
also worth checking out Babylon 5 and Stargate SG-1 if you haven't already, both have a lot of Trek in their DNA (and in B5's case there was cross-polination in both directions)
Start on TrekLit! Seriously...join me; you'll (probably) love it.
I started with "A Stitch in Time" because I've wanted to read it forever, and now I've gone through that plus two trilogies and am on 4 out of 5 books in the "Star Trek: Picard" sequel/interquel series.
Hard copies might be difficult / expensive to obtain since many of them are out of print, but ebooks [dot] com has most of them available DRM-free if you've got an e-reader or don't mind reading on your phone. A couple of the newer ones are DRM-only so I had to buy them and high-seas a DRM-free version lol. From what I've noticed, it seems like the publisher doesn't release the DRM-free version until 5 years after initial release. So, ethical piracy is my solution to that.
Here's some gems from the one I'm reading now (ST Picard: Firewall). It's about Seven's time with the Fenris Rangers
DS9: Millennium was fantastic. Third book seemed like it had some filler and drug on a bit too long in certain areas, but overall the whole trilogy was great. Arla Rees, though.....ugh. lol
Star Trek Elite Force is basically a Voyager episode, complete with Voyager episode opening.
Star Trek Klingons Academy is really good, but it does have a few bugs.
If you're more tactical, perhaps try Star Trek Starfleet Command. There are three games and they're all on GOG.
Of course, you could pick up Sins of a Solar Empire for a fart and three marbles on the grey market. Then you can down the stellar Star Trek mods for it, like Star Trek Armada III or Ages of the Federation.
Star Trek Armada IV mod for Sins of a Solar Empire II just came out in alpha.
Star Trek Online is a free-to-play MMORPG that picks up some abandoned threads and is still getting new content and updates, brings back actors for VO. The downside is how grindy it is.
Fun fact, the Odyssey class of the Ent-F was first introduced in STO, as we're 1 or 2 other newer classes seen in PIC
Yeah, some ship designs are really good in STO. Ship gameplay is also the best part of STO.
Problem are the FOMO events and eventually hitting a grind wall if you want to be able to play later missions without constantly dying.
Ground missions are also really crap. They're very basic cheap MMO affair, in stark contrast to the space gameplay. I read two different developers made made the two aspects of STO gameplay, and it really show.
Despite how good the stories can sometimes be, and how the writing is a real love letter to Star Trek as a whole, the compounding issues eventually got me to stop playing.
some people dont consider std canon. or kurtzman trek-verse for that matter. they need dedicated trek showrunner, not someone that hates it or is ignorant of trek. enterprise ended because of LES MOONVES hating the series.
VOY gels by season 3, ENT is scatterbrained (3 overall not great, but 4 has enough solid episodes), DISCO is a hot mess with moments that shine through.
80 Comments
The_Picard_Maneuver@piefed.world · 54 pts · 325d
Next step:
MimicJar@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 325d
Wait... Are we only allowed to do it twice?
The_Picard_Maneuver@piefed.world · 9 pts · 325d
ripcord@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 325d
They just said "again"
Turret3857@infosec.pub · 44 pts · 325d
the orville. written by and stars some of the pre-2010s talent
Eeyore_Syndrome@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 325d
Season 4 let's gooooo! š„¹
Turret3857@infosec.pub · 9 pts · 325d
i know im so excited!!
adhocfungus@midwest.social · 8 pts · 325d
Had an argument with my dad about The Orville. He said it was too 'woke' and political. I told him that's exactly what makes it feel like good classic Trek.
Turret3857@infosec.pub · 7 pts · 325d
Has your dad watched classic trek recently? Its mostly woke.
adhocfungus@midwest.social · 7 pts · 324d
That's what I don't get. It's like the people saying Sesame Street has gotten too woke. Were you even paying attention the first time? That's what I liked about many episodes of The Orville: it felt like classic Star Trek because it was pushing the envelope of social and philosophical issues through a sci-fi lens.
He asked me if he would like SNW and I wasn't sure what to tell him. The cast may be more diverse, but honestly the plots have largely been focused on action.
EnsignWashout@startrek.website · 2 pts · 315d
Or like...ever. haha.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 325d
Babylon 5?
StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website · 11 pts · 325d
Farscape!
dubyakay@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 324d
Soooo.... SGĀ°1? Or is that too far?
StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website · 3 pts · 323d
I would definitely put Farscape ahead of the others because itās had such a profound impact on the creators and writers of other space opera shows since its run, including newer Star Trek.
Babylon 5 is very good if one skips all but the āmust see episodesā of season one. The original principal actor suffered a major health crisis between the pilot and the first season. His wooden, not present performance, really damages that season but the other actors and show is very much worth the effort to watch around that.
I would also throw some 1970s classics in to the mix if OP enjoyed TOS. Space 1999 is definitely worth a watch, especially season one. BSG, the original, is a fun ride.
For a show thatās ambitious and appallingly bad all at once, but that features some classic Trek actors and writers, āThe Starlostā is a hoot. It really deserves to be purposed for memes.
I can honestly say that I have tried to get into SG1 several times but it never sticks. (I really liked the movie though.). I started again recently and drifted away in the middle of season one.
dubyakay@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 323d
I agree with your assessments. Although I've never liked Space 1999, original BSG or Buck Rogers that much. Especially the original BSG, which had a very bad late 70s vibe akin to Love Boat, Six Million Dollar Man, The Incredible Hulk and Man From Atlantis lol
SGĀ°1 is fairly light hearted. The first season has the lowest average rating and boasts some of the worst rated episodes in the entire show. After that it gets consistently good. Up until Season 9/10 that is, when you suddenly have Farscape in your SG universe, and an ass-pull of a new "race" appears.
But by then you would start watching SG Atlantis, and the diamond in the rough that is Stargate Universe. The later which somehow makes it all worth it.
StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website · 2 pts · 323d
Ok, perhaps I should just power through SG season one and see if I can get into it.
BSG definitely is very late 70s American but, as a Canadian, I find Buck Rogers even worse. I donāt think I made it through two or three episodes at most.
Technoworcester@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 325d
Came here to say this.
coreray00@discuss.online · 6 pts · 325d
Babylon 5 is DS9 in the right universe, with muppets!
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 324d
Ivonova and Sinclair never attacked a populated planet. Technically Sheridan did, but I don't think Za'hadum actually counts as inhabited....
SatyrSack@quokk.au · 19 pts · 325d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Continues
Davel23@fedia.io · 13 pts · 325d
Continues is amazingly good.
SatyrSack@quokk.au · 9 pts · 325d
More than it has any right to be
aeronmelon@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 325d
This and The Orville.
decended_being@midwest.social · 16 pts · 325d
Stargate?
obinice@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 325d
I am the great and powerful Oz!
jodanlime@midwest.social · 15 pts · 325d
Time to start watching Gundam
Tolookah@discuss.tchncs.de · 8 pts · 325d
I started that path, I've only hit highlights.
Edit: it's all good so far, but I sadly don't have subtitle Time, so only dubs are in my future. (I'm usually doing something else while it plays)
jodanlime@midwest.social · 6 pts · 325d
You can watch a large chunk of UC with dubs. ZZ isn't dubbed, and a few of the newest ones aren't dubbed yet, but otherwise it's probably one of the more accessible anime to get into. If you've only seen highlights I would say it's a good time to just start episode 1 of 0079 and roll it. It's not like every episode is amazing, but it's fun and cool to see where the story begins.
sundray@lemmus.org · 5 pts · 325d
UC or non-UC?
jodanlime@midwest.social · 6 pts · 325d
When I say Gundam I mean UC. Some of the other shows are entertaining, but they don't feel like real Gundam to me. UC has hard sci-fi elements, political, space and mech battles. It's a mix that hits pretty hard for me. Most of the non-UC shows are either goofy, or not 'real robots', or set mostly on earth.
sundray@lemmus.org · 4 pts · 325d
Good answer š
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 5 pts · 325d
Yes
janewaydidnothingwrong@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 325d
I just find it nearly impossible to get my hands on like 75% of gundam content
jodanlime@midwest.social · 5 pts · 325d
As a Gundam fan in the west, you really have to turn to the pirates. Part of me wishes Sunrise/Bandai would get their shit together and get it all available, but as somebody who has followed the series since the late 90s it's kind of always been this way. You can buy the Blu Rays if that's your thing, but you can also find everything in great quality from multiple sites.
janewaydidnothingwrong@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 325d
The one tracker i have access to doesnt have any that arent widely available elsewhere unfortunately but maybe one day I'll get on one that does.
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 316d
OG Gundam was too... cheesy? Juvenile? Old-fashioned? Anyway, I'm halfway through Gundam Wing right now.
Help.
Either we lost something in translation, the plot is super cut-down in order to adapt the manga into 50 episodes, or these characters really don't make a lot of sense.
nilaus@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 325d
You give us your ranking from best to worst show, in your personal opinion. Then we all get to argue about it and have fun.
ummthatguy@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 325d
I'll make a post of it after some thought. Gotta tease the crowd before stirring them up into a fervor.
Repelle@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 325d
Not op, but this is definitive, so we can get into an argument when your list is slightly different
Ds9
LD
TOS
TNG
VOY
SNW
ENT
TAS
Prodigy
Discovery/Picard
Zoot@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 324d
Putting TOS as 3rd is just wrong, have you even watched it recently? Absolute terrible opinions good sir, especially having the greatest musical of all time so low on the list.
Repelle@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 324d
I watch TOS relatively frequently, watched a few episodes the other day. Itās a really fantastic show, more great episodes in the first season than some other shows have their entire run. The Spock/Kirk/McCoy dynamic is as special as it has ever been. Pacing is slower, which I like, and even a lot of the mediocre eps do a really nice job setting up a mystery that they actually solve.
Thereās also a lot of truly awful eps, and highly outdated bits, but a great show.
Also, much like Janeway I donāt appreciate being called sir, maāam will do in a pinch. (I know Star Trek was trying to be progressive by using sir universally, but I find it mildly sexist)
And I agree, it hurt to put Voyager as low as it was, the doctorās rendition and alteration of la Donna e mobile was as brilliant as you state, but still had to put TNG higher, so many great episodes.
TheDoozer@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 324d
The only good part of the musical (with the exception, maybe, of the Connected song), is my K-boys dropping some clap back at the end. It's my ring tone for my work and my daughter (because the only time they call instead of text it's because they have some dramas).
data1701d@startrek.website · 1 pts · 323d
I think PRO should rank above ENT just because ENT cranks the horniness to 10 to the point of interfering with characterization and character development. True, Prodigy is kid-oriented, so it canāt be that horny, but still.
However, I can understand PRO ranking lower overall because the classic series and LD are so good and PRO, for all its virtues, does have its flaws.
I mean, I canāt even stand Jankom until season 2; Rokās similarly a bit a annoying, but becomes a bit more bearable after the timeline. Also, the styleās a bit inconsistent; most of the main cast looks fine (Rokās eyes could do to be a bit smaller), but real Janeway looks a bit out of Shrek, the Doctor just looks strange, and many of the background and minor characters looks really uncanny valley.
Also, although I think the plots are better than DIS, the whole ābig badā, āletās save the entire universe twiceā thing is still a bit tiring.
I think Mr. Tysess is absolutely beautiful with his gigantic chin, though, and I am astonished how much of that beautiful ārandom Ensign on Picardās bridgeā quality Daveed Diggsās voice has (Thomas Jefferson is not very Starfleet). I need more Daveed Diggs in Star Trek!
crapwittyname@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 324d
DS9 is okay, I suppose. There are some episodes where Sisko isn't in it much
Repelle@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 323d
Iā¦ didnāt know until today that something could hurt me more than when my wife cheated on me.
nilaus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 324d
I agree on DS9... From there I would go:
TNG
LD
VOY
SNW
ENT
TOS
PRO
TAS (Even thoug I've never seen it)
DIS/PIC
Repelle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 324d
Not actually that far away from my list. I understand putting TNG that high even if I disagree with it. TOS being that low is pure blasphemy, though
usernamefactory@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 324d
TOS below ENT is unfathomable. Iāll have a go:
DS9, TOS, TNG, DISCO, SNW, VOY, LD, PIC, PRO, TAS, ENT
SNW would have beat out DISCO if it werenāt for season 3. Of course, Iām super mercurial and will stand by none of this in a week.
MalikMuaddibSoong@startrek.website · 11 pts · 325d
when I realize I have no new treks to watch
negativenull@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 325d
dontsayaword@piefed.social · 10 pts · 325d
Now do it all in chronological order
teft@piefed.social · 5 pts · 325d
And then in random order.
obinice@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 325d
You have to watch Star Trek Continues, it picks up immediately where ToS left off.
Yes, it's a fan show, but it's got absolutely fantastic sets, sound, acting and writing, it goes above and beyond.
It's really top notch, and I was so sad when they stopped making it!
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhvh2eq-XLgqNxH6npvQxGxLCUHy90IpZ
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 325d
"And ummthatguy wept, for there were no more Treks to watch."
_NetNomad@fedia.io · 7 pts · 325d
also worth checking out Babylon 5 and Stargate SG-1 if you haven't already, both have a lot of Trek in their DNA (and in B5's case there was cross-polination in both directions)
sundray@lemmus.org · 7 pts · 325d
Fire up the beta canon!
IcedRaktajino@startrek.website · 6 pts · 325d
Start on TrekLit! Seriously...join me; you'll (probably) love it.
I started with "A Stitch in Time" because I've wanted to read it forever, and now I've gone through that plus two trilogies and am on 4 out of 5 books in the "Star Trek: Picard" sequel/interquel series.
Hard copies might be difficult / expensive to obtain since many of them are out of print, but ebooks [dot] com has most of them available DRM-free if you've got an e-reader or don't mind reading on your phone. A couple of the newer ones are DRM-only so I had to buy them and high-seas a DRM-free version lol. From what I've noticed, it seems like the publisher doesn't release the DRM-free version until 5 years after initial release. So, ethical piracy is my solution to that.
Here's some gems from the one I'm reading now (ST Picard: Firewall). It's about Seven's time with the Fenris Rangers
usernamefactory@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 325d
This. Some of the best Trek is non-canon. Personally Iād recommend anything by Diane Duane or the Reeves-Stevenses.
IcedRaktajino@startrek.website · 5 pts · 325d
DS9: Millennium was fantastic. Third book seemed like it had some filler and drug on a bit too long in certain areas, but overall the whole trilogy was great. Arla Rees, though.....ugh. lol
BigBananaDealer@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 325d
then you watch all of star wars
will that get me crucified in this community?š
RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 324d
Stargate.
swab148@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 325d
Easy, get amnesia then watch Star Trek again for the first time!
PriorityMotif@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 325d
Plankton Farts and Dies of course
Tattorack@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 325d
Play some games.
Star Trek Elite Force is basically a Voyager episode, complete with Voyager episode opening.
Star Trek Klingons Academy is really good, but it does have a few bugs.
If you're more tactical, perhaps try Star Trek Starfleet Command. There are three games and they're all on GOG.
Of course, you could pick up Sins of a Solar Empire for a fart and three marbles on the grey market. Then you can down the stellar Star Trek mods for it, like Star Trek Armada III or Ages of the Federation.
Star Trek Armada IV mod for Sins of a Solar Empire II just came out in alpha.
usernamefactory@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 325d
Adding Star Trek 25th Anniversary and Judgement Rites to the list. An amazingly good duo if you donāt mind ā90s graphics.
Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 325d
Star Trek Online is a free-to-play MMORPG that picks up some abandoned threads and is still getting new content and updates, brings back actors for VO. The downside is how grindy it is.
Fun fact, the Odyssey class of the Ent-F was first introduced in STO, as we're 1 or 2 other newer classes seen in PIC
Tattorack@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 325d
Yeah, some ship designs are really good in STO. Ship gameplay is also the best part of STO.
Problem are the FOMO events and eventually hitting a grind wall if you want to be able to play later missions without constantly dying.
Ground missions are also really crap. They're very basic cheap MMO affair, in stark contrast to the space gameplay. I read two different developers made made the two aspects of STO gameplay, and it really show.
Despite how good the stories can sometimes be, and how the writing is a real love letter to Star Trek as a whole, the compounding issues eventually got me to stop playing.
TribblesBestFriend@startrek.website · 5 pts · 325d
Time to start again
half_built_pyramids@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 323d
Next, read all the fan zines from the 70s.
DamienGramatacus@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 325d
If you're into podcasts, I highly recommend Improvised Star Trek.
tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 325d
Watch them all again and listen to the best Trek podcast around
https://maximumfun.org/podcasts/greatest-generation/
Zephorah@discuss.online · 3 pts · 325d
You start over at the beginning and watch them again.
Gork@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 325d
Time for Star Trek fan fiction, even if it's only head cannon in your head.
selzam@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 324d
I fear that day.
Rhaedas@fedia.io · 2 pts · 325d
This is why I diversify into all types of scifi and fantasy.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 324d
some people dont consider std canon. or kurtzman trek-verse for that matter. they need dedicated trek showrunner, not someone that hates it or is ignorant of trek. enterprise ended because of LES MOONVES hating the series.
pyre@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 324d
bsg, or you can always rewatch tng
EtAl@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 324d
I'm still waiting for Voyager, Enterprise, and Disco to get good.
ummthatguy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 324d
VOY gels by season 3, ENT is scatterbrained (3 overall not great, but 4 has enough solid episodes), DISCO is a hot mess with moments that shine through.