cross-posted from: https://reddthat.com/post/52386265
Right now, big communities dominate the feed. I’m wondering what sort algorithm could level the field so niche or hobbyist communities have a fair chance to get seen.
There’s a good related post: Niche Communities won't be able to reach their true potential until Lemmy adds a sort that takes engagement into account. It puts it well:
“If Lemmy is to truly start having active hobbyist communities instead of being 95% lefty US politics, Shitposts, and some tech stuff, it needs a sort that takes into account the user’s engagement.”
What do you think should be the default sort for a more balanced Lemmy?
39 Comments
PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social · 60 pts · 330d
Try "Scaled," it is better.
antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 20 pts · 330d
I've just tried it out on "All" and basically the entire first page is filled with one user's posts to !visualarts@lemmy.dbzer0.com :/
PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social · 11 pts · 330d
Hm
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/?dataType=Post&listingType=All&sort=Scaled
Yeah, maybe so. I think you may have to do it to "Subscribed" only, and then sometimes cut out one specific community or other that it is over-promoting. I mean, it's doing what it's supposed to do, promoting small communities, but I think sometimes it maybe gets carried away.
Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com · 12 pts · 330d
Maybe the size of the community should be determined based on posts per month instead of the number of active users
MHLoppy@fedia.io · 7 pts · 330d
Imo that's as much a problem of the sorting algorithm as it is with a single community blasting out too many posts at once without any consideration for how current frontends are unable to usefully integrate that into people's feeds. A couple of years ago nanoUFO was being a bit (subjectively) overenthusiastic about posting - I counted and !games@sh.itjust.works had 40 posts at once from them and it made the first couple pages of my feed basically unusable for a while.
Scaled is also probably better suited for your subscribed feed rather than /All.
avidamoeba@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 330d
Scaled with Subscribed, then liberally subscribe to any and all communities I think I might be interested in. Check the Scaled + All firehose once in a while and subscribe to new communities if anything new shows up.
cerement@slrpnk.net · 26 pts · 330d
TIL: there are people who don’t sort by “New”
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · 21 pts · 330d
That would cause me to miss many interesting threads that were created at a time when I happened not to be looking at Lemmy.
"New comments" it is for me, that causes threads to get bumped to the top as long as other people still find them interesting.
HappyFrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 330d
Yeah, I almost always sort by bew, then I check once a week using top to see if I missed anything.
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech · 2 pts · 330d
This is the way, and for comments added on posts
PumpkinDrama@reddthat.com · 12 pts · 330d
trajekolus@piefed.social · 15 pts · 330d
I'm not sure how Scaled is determined, but as far as I know, it is made for what you want
PumpkinDrama@reddthat.com · 12 pts · 330d
Nah it only rewards communities with few members, that means bot communities with lot of posts and almost no active users are always going to be top. That's not the outliers sorting that I want.
rimu@piefed.social · 5 pts · 330d
That's an interesting algorithm!
IMO the Lemmy scaled sort would be ok if it wasn't as powerful.
Try the scaled sort on PieFed.social, the amplification isn't as strong and I just tweaked it to filter out bot posts.
https://piefed.social/home/scaled/all
Nemo@slrpnk.net · 12 pts · 330d
It's not a competition. Get rid of that mindset.
Chozo@fedia.io · 14 pts · 330d
It's not necessarily about competition, it's about visibility. If I create something and I want to share it with people, that means I want people to see it. It doesn't necessarily mean "I want people to see this more than other posts", just "I'd rather not be posting into the void".
For instance, I make YouTube Shorts for a game I play. I don't post them on Lemmy anymore, because the Lemmy community for the game only has 60 subscribers, most of whom aren't even active accounts anymore. The highest-upvoted thread in the community has 47 votes, the second-highest only has 9. This translates to effectively nobody on Lemmy seeing the videos I made, because this small, slow-paced community's posts get drowned out by everything else.
Skavau@piefed.social · 3 pts · 330d
What's the game? I feel like a broader community for "YouTube Shorts for a games people play" would have more successful than a community tailored to that specific game.
PumpkinDrama@reddthat.com · -3 pts · 330d
I think it is, and niche has lost to shitposting. Also, don't tell me what to do.
Jayjader@jlai.lu · 11 pts · 330d
"Top over the last 6 hours" can be a decent middle ground between "new", "scaled", and "active".
OpenStars@piefed.social · 8 pts · 330d
I tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried with Lemmy. The best I found that I could hope for was sorting by New, but mostly I just gave up hope for it.
Until I moved to PieFed, and now the issue has multiple solutions. For one, using the Topic/Feeds (which are user-customizeable and shareable) you really can have your cake and eat it too, e.g. you can unsubscribe from all politics communities so that those do not show up on your main homepage, but an entire new feed completely dedicated to News & Politics is just a click away. Or Memes. Or Hobbies. Or Movies & TV, or any of a thousand other things - again, you can build your own, or subscribe to one that someone else has made.
And for another, for sufficiently low-traffic communities you can click the bell icon (which you can do to pretty much anything - users, posts, comments, communities, etc. - plus you can even UNCLICK that to silence notifications from your own content!!), so that you get a notification for each and every single new post to it. But, if it ever does get to be too much, you can mark all as read and/or separate the different categories of notifications from one another - community posts by others vs. replies to your own content.
PieFed really is leaving Lemmy behind in the dust, as far as features are concerned.
mrdown@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 330d
I think crossposting from time to time may help
mesamunefire@piefed.social · 4 pts · 330d
Maybe search by tags? I know piefed allows you to do that. And Mastodon.
Either that or make your own search via api and exclude any community with more than X subscribers. Probably would work well.
PumpkinDrama@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 330d
I'm fine just using the hot sort or scaled sort in my subscribed communities. I don't participate much since I mainly post in niche communities, and Lemmy tends to smother those, so I have to keep using Reddit.
other_cat@piefed.zip · 3 pts · 329d
I do Top Day for my subscribed communities, and then when I get through that, I switch to All and Active and I've found quite a few interesting posts and communities that way.
podbrushkin@mander.xyz · 3 pts · 329d
Instead of small communities we have a billion posts per second about Trump and Charlie Kirk. It’s not possible to hide them, filtered keywords feature doesn’t work for pictures. Also, have you seen latest anti-MAGA meme? It’s fire, go check it out, just switch your feed to Global.
Skavau@piefed.social · 2 pts · 329d
Most pictures though have titles that should filter them out via keywords
podbrushkin@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 329d
penguin202124@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 329d
New comments ftw
Inaminate_Carbon_Rod@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 330d
I’d love to see more action in the Magic the Gathering communities.
BradleyUffner@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 330d
It's Lemmy. They're all small communities...
sanity_is_maddening@piefed.social · 1 pts · 330d
Skavau@piefed.social · 9 pts · 330d
You realise if Lemmy/Piefed even doubled in size, /new/ would just be useless. Just a wave of low quality posts, spam, and topically non-relevant posts to most people.
It doesn't scale.
sanity_is_maddening@piefed.social · 1 pts · 330d
Skavau@piefed.social · 2 pts · 330d
I use /hot/ for local and subscribed posts after not looking at them for a day or so sometimes.
If someone could only look by /new/ on the /all/ anything older than an hour or so would just be completely gone unless they kept scrolling. The feed would be irrelevant to most people or dominated by frequent posters who flood their communities. In fact, it would make it more desirable for community owners to flood communities full of low-effort posts as the only way to attain visibility would be to be ever-present on the /new/ feed.
Why do you imagine a mandatory sort by /new/ would be less likely to be a feed of memes, circlejerking and rageposting?
As I said: Only /new/ existing would make it more desirable for community owners to flood communities full of low-effort posts as the only way to attain visibility would be to be ever-present on the /new/ feed.
A platforming being 'slop' won't be any less slop purely because it removes its /hot/ feed. In fact, you might as well just outright remove upvotes and downvotes at that rate. And then it just isn't a reddit alternative anymore.
You can just outright remove all of the 'tankie' instances from your own viewing if you want. Especially on Piefed. You can block all the shitpost and circlejerk and meme communities.
What communities are you referring to here?
Well I came here because I wanted to run a particular community that I couldn't run or help on reddit. Reddit has exhausted itself for people who want to community build. Almost all names are taken.
There are many other issues with Reddit too: people being able to hide their post history (thus making it much easier for bad faith accounts to hide their posting history), no voting visibility (I didn't know the Fediverse had this before I joined, but it's very good in that it cultivates a high-trust culture), a broken block system, and its beginning to administrate via AI tools meaning people are getting their posts hidden or removed based on its poor understanding. On the Fediverse you can actually directly interact with instance owners and admins, making each instance much more accountable to users - and if you don't like how one community is run in one instance, you can create it elsewhere and take their users (if enough people agree).
sanity_is_maddening@piefed.social · 1 pts · 330d
Skavau@piefed.social · 1 pts · 330d
There is no karma-posting on here though. People post a lot because they want their communities to grow. This is the case with /new/ only or /hot/. The habits won't change.
Remember though that the Fediverse has public voting, so any attempts to game it are often caught and the perpetrators banned. This is very unlike Reddit. Upvoting/downvoting as a system is not perfect, it's incomplete - and alternative systems could exist, however a react system of some sort is necessary to curate content across the board for the audience.
I mean that if only /new/ existed, then after an hour or so - a small community is invisible unless they keep posting constantly. Because people are unlikely to scroll back and notice posts from that community.
The Fediverse is far too small to even discuss bringing up guards against growth now. In addition, instances can have wildly different - and do have wildly different local policies on community creation, account creation, federation, upvoting (some disable upvotes and downvotes) and many other things if possible. Some instances - as I'm sure you are aware of just don't get on with each other and their own respective userbases would have different opinions over policy.
I must have missed Rimu saying that recently. I am also on piefed.social. He only communciated that for storage reasons to me in the past.
This is part because the Lemmy software lacks trivial safeguards against day 1 trolls by the way. They can't even delay community creation for X days for new accounts because Lemmy simply doesn't have it built in as an option.
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech · 6 pts · 330d
Algorithm is not a dirty word. Any sorting or filtering is an algorithm. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean we need to kill it off, just don't use them.
sanity_is_maddening@piefed.social · 1 pts · 330d
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech · 0 pts · 330d
You sure? You wrote a novel based on a couple of sentences my dude.
sanity_is_maddening@piefed.social · 3 pts · 330d
ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one · 2 pts · 330d
Honsetly, crossposting is an amazing feature. The vast majority of my posts are just me crossposting posts to another community. It's low effort-high value. It takes a few minutes to bring new content to smaller communities.
Tracaine@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 330d
Compete with what? Maybe the small communities should just not suck.
trajekolus@piefed.social · 11 pts · 330d
Seriously?
A lot of small communities are small because they are niche or because they are new
Chozo@fedia.io · 3 pts · 330d
It's a signal-to-noise issue. There are some smaller communities I'd like to keep an eye on, but the posts from those communities get drowned out by the more active ones. I miss a lot of posts that I would have liked to have seen because of this.