U.S. hits $38 trillion in debt, after the fastest accumulation of $1 trillion outside of the pandemic
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-hits-38-trillion-in-debt-after-the-fastest-accumulation-of-1-trillion-outside-of-the-pandemic
673 points · 78 comments · view on lemmy.world
78 Comments
return2ozma@lemmy.world · 170 pts · 321d
switcheroo@lemmy.world · 112 pts · 321d
And not a peep out of the party of "fiscal responsibility".
Really says something about the Cons, doesn't it.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 37 pts · 320d
Yeah they've been pushing that false narrative while being the reason we keep increasing our spending while also cutting revenue for DECADES.
AlexLost@lemmy.world · 60 pts · 321d
And you all got stimulus cheques this time too, right?! Right..?
FahrenheitGhost@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 320d
I'm still living off the last one. I couldn't even imagine doubling such wealth.
kibiz0r@midwest.social · 8 pts · 320d
$400 check, and $400k in PPP loans that I will totally repay (if I have to)
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world · 58 pts · 320d
We cut all those programs and jobs and the deficit still went up?
I wonder what happened to all that money they were saving by doing that?
prex@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 319d
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 48 pts · 320d
Let them eat cake
TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world · 44 pts · 321d
Oh no, this train is not slowing down. It can't. In fact, it has to speed up. At least, the currency debasement has to speed up.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 321d
Currency debasement is a great way to kill an empire. I wholeheartedly endorse it.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 13 pts · 321d
Kill the American Empire, so the MAGA empire can rise. Just like Weimar
RustyShackleford@programming.dev · 3 pts · 320d
And then China, Western Europe, and Russia invade the United States after it initiates massive, aggressive wars to bolster its flailing economy?
And then both sides launch nuclear weapons to end it all?
Is this the accelerationist argument?
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 320d
Honestly the whole Weimar turning into Nazi Germany thing was kinda a fluke historically speaking. Usually the empire in question implodes, stagnates, or decentralizes usually a mix of atleast two, unless it's Rome where they will do all three plus a secret forth option and come out the other side.
The Nazis frankly speaking had Alexandrian level plot armor, if anything had gone even slightly different they may have collapsed before even operation Barbarossa.
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 319d
I think in their case, a righteous anger against the Versailles Treaty fueled a good deal of the effort that they put into becoming a new empire. The rest of the fuel came from stealing from their Jewish and minority citizens, temporarily boosting their coffers. It couldn't last, since there was no forethought about where to stop, and they destroyed their best financial gurus out of jealousy and stupidity.
Anyhow, I believe that Dogey America cannot handle a civil war. Unlike the Nazi regime's luck of a poorly run Weimer, it is the conservatives who mismanaged the economy, and Americans have no one but MAGA to blame for a Greater Depression. That a rat like Yarvin has left the ship is an hopeful sign.
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 319d
Just to add some more data points for you about the German economy under the Nazis.
The German economy was already recovering under the Weimar Republic but it was slow going, the Nazis were able to more or less ride it and claim credit which when combined with morally shit but economically sensible shit like pushing women out of certain jobs in favor of men made the initial economy relatively stable.Note this is also stupid long term but that's measured in the terms of decades, also the only reason it worked was because of early 20th familial economics this wouldn't work in the modern US for example.
Then theres the stripping wealthy minorities of their wealth which allowed them to fuel the war economy they were building but had the obvious effect of hurting the economy long term and scareing educated and experienced professionals away. The death camps come later long after the economy was exclusively propped up by the war and even then they wasted so much resources that it fucked them over even more.
Finally there's the stripping of resources from conquered territories which was the only reason they were able to continue past Czechoslovakia, the German economy by the time of the invasion of Poland was basically a great wyrm consuming anything and everything it could find to keep itself alive. There's a reason they slowed down so much invading the Soviets, it's cause the Soviets scorched earthed everything and Africa had basically no payout.
But yeah the US ain't got the same circumstances and if even a small civil war kicked off it'd probably be more than enough to kill the feds and half the states at this point. The US simply isn't robust enough, it can't fuel itself with revanchists like the Nazis nor can it burn itself to be reborn like Rome. The US is an old empire showing its age and facing a springtime of nations like the Austro-Hungarian empire or the Ottoman empire.
fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 320d
As much is it wouldn't be fun to live through, it's good in the long term
redsand@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 321d
When this baby hits 88 you're gonna see some serious shit
_stranger_@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 320d
He was president during the pandemic
d00phy@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 321d
BuT rEpuBliCaNs R BetR Fur ThE ecONomY!
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 320d
You'd have to go back to the 1800s for that to even have a chance at being slightly true.
RustyShackleford@programming.dev · 14 pts · 320d
Eisenhower was a Republican and he used social programs to build the US interstate highway system and the infrastructure necessary for the predecessor to our modern airport infrastructure and space program.
The highest top marginal tax rate during Dwight D. Eisenhower's presidency (1953-1961) was 91%, which applied to the highest income bracket. (Note: In 1952 and 1953, the top rate was 92%, dropping to 91% for 1954–1963.)
jabeez@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 320d
I think that time period is about the one they're shooting for to take us back to.
CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 320d
Good At Bizness
https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=J-3kU3VNGq4
ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one · 35 pts · 320d
Damn, those Republicans are great at managing the government's finances.*
*This a scarstic comment
Jumi@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 320d
I'm sure you wanted to write sarcastic but I can imagine the happenings recently may have left some scars.
kikutwo@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 321d
bIDeNs eCoNoMiE
Suavevillain@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 320d
Then if Dems get in power suddenly Republicans will care about spending again. Everyone knows how this song and dance goes.
Spacehooks@reddthat.com · 4 pts · 320d
If dem tears down east wing during a shutdown and you'll hear bad decorum or some bs and massive smear campaign about federal workers not being paid.
Suavevillain@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 318d
Trump has done so much to get rid of decorum and the general respectability politics. This could be the greatest thing ever for a Dem who is willing to fight and be unapologetic for the people. They should tear it down day one and frame it as job creation too to rub it in.
BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 320d
Wow, interest alone on the debt is now hitting $1trillion a year and expected to hit $14 trillion in 10 years!?
And this is despite Americans being taxed $350bn through trumps tarrifs.
Elon Musk is very quiet about this - wasn't this why he went all in on DOGE?
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 320d
He went for Doge to remove or incapacitate agencies inconveniencing his businesses, particularly SpaceX. The Doge Dumbasses wrecked everything else by vibe.
pinheadednightmare@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 321d
He really needs to put something around his neck to cover up his neckitalia. It’s really disgusting
Typhoon@lemmy.ca · 36 pts · 321d
ThePantser@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 321d
That's where the Russian dick is Putin
Zachariah@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 321d
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 320d
Trumpflation returns. Its the biggest, most beautiful type of inflation where rich people get richer and everyone else pays more.
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · 19 pts · 320d
Why did no one warn us that a failure of a businessman would utterly fail at the business of running an economy?
DupaCycki@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 320d
First a failed painter. Now a failed businessman. Who's gonna be next?
prex@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 319d
I can bake a rubbish cake.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 319d
If it tastes good then it's not a failure.
prex@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 318d
Oh it tastes awful
jaykrown@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 321d
Unstoppable debt spiral. Basically this, the more people come to realize it's never being paid back, the faster it will grow, and the faster it grows, the more people realize it's never being paid back. It doesn't really mean anything at this point.
AA5B@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 320d
Even if that were true, you can’t escape the consequences
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/061515/what-are-some-historic-examples-hyperinflation.asp#%3A%7E%3Atext=Hyperinflation+is+a+rapid+and%2Cits+currency+value+became+worthless.
You my think that paragraph on the us is encouraging, but consider today’s reality
fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 320d
Hyperinflation would be so cool. I would pay off my student loans for the price of a dozen eggs
Laser@feddit.org · 6 pts · 320d
Surely there'd be no other downsides
But yeah inflation outpacing interest is mostly good for the borrower.
jaykrown@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 320d
We can't completely escape the consequences, but they can be mitigated. I don't have a lot to lose. I don't benefit from a 401k or social security. There's a reason why investors are flocking to gold.
Something that needs to change is how real estate is seen as an investment. It has broken the quality of life increase in the US by gatekeeping real estate, drastically increasing cost of living, while building nothing new to preserve investment. When you make housing an investment, it becomes in your best interest to stop building more to reduce supply and preserve value.
PeacefulForest@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 320d
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 319d
Ask your politicians not us
PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 320d
When does Great Depression 2.0 start?
4grams@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 320d
Been to the grocery store? I’d say it’s ramping up right on schedule.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 320d
last february?
venusaur@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 320d
Trump loves debt
Wispy2891@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 320d
Especially when someone else has to pay for it
Deconceptualist@leminal.space · 10 pts · 321d
Oh don't worry, this administration will make sure we beat the previous record with a new pandemic.
BigBenis@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 320d
A Republican, the party of fiscal responsibility, ballooning the national debt to record numbers? Who could have seen that coming??
Lemminary@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 319d
I was promised less government spending with a chainsaw on stage! But then again, I was promised many things by idiots on the stage! None of which materialized, oddly enough.
chunes@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 319d
National debt shouldn't be called debt. All it does is confuse idiots who think it's the same thing as their personal budget.
HurlingDurling@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 319d
What should it be called then?
Just woke up and cannot think so I am asking honestly
chunes@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 319d
Maybe something like sovereign accrued liability. Make it a snorefest, so it's harder for news publications to make clickbait out of it.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 319d
Inflation indicator.
DirkMcCallahan@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 321d
Susan Collins is very concerned.
rizzothesmall@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 320d
Is it great again yet?
MrsDoyle@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 320d
Who actually owns this debt? Who is getting the interest payments? It seems like every country runs on some kind of deficit - where is all this money coming from?
DupaCycki@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 320d
It's basically spread between various governments (notably Japan, China, Norway), financial institutions and private holders. You can invest into US treasury bonds and that way you'll hold a piece of the debt. It's actually been considered the safest investment on the planet for the last century or so.
The biggest single chunk of it is owned by the Federal Reserve - about $4 trillion if I remember correctly. Which kind of... doesn't make any sense?
MrsDoyle@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 319d
Thanks! You're right, it doesn't make sense. But Norway played it smart with their oil wealth, didn't they? Tiny country, and there they are lending money to the US.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 320d
bond holders
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 319d
Capitalism itself, pretty much
Steve@startrek.website · 3 pts · 321d
And bonds keep going up
demizerone@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 320d
And you better believe of the Democrats gain power the Republicans will scream about the deficit until they are blue in the face and then do nothing. Worthless fucking Democrats.
SereneSadie@lemmy.myserv.one · 21 pts · 320d
Oh shut the fuck up.
The nazis are literally terrorising people in their homes, gearing for war, and cooking the planet alive.
But no, gotta bitch about the Dems more.
Do us a fucking favour and remove yourself You literally bring nothing but a worthless drain on bandwidth at this point.
anon_8675309@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 320d
They’ll steal your “entitlements” to help pay for it.
frankiehollywood@lemmy.zip · -3 pts · 320d
Biden added 8 trillion…
DupaCycki@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 320d
And so did Trump's first term. Except $8 trillion in 2012-2016 was a lot more than $8 trillion in 2016-2020. Right now we can safely expect over $10 trillion of increase by Trump's second term's end. If it ends, that is.
frankiehollywood@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 320d
Over the course of President Trump’s four years in office, the gross national debt grew from $19.95 trillion to $27.75 trillion – a $7.8 trillion increase (debt held by the public – the more economically-meaningful measure of debt – grew by $7.2 trillion over this period). However, much of this borrowing was due to policies put in place before President Trump took office or due to unexpected changes in circumstance. Debt was already projected to grow by about $3 trillion for the four years of his term when President Trump took office, and some of the additional debt accrued was also the direct result of the COVID-19 pandemic and recession. It’s also important to note that the government was holding an unusually large $1.6 trillion in cash when President Trump left office, which inflated the growth in debt relative to the deficit run during his time in office.
T00l_shed@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 320d
It's almost like biden had to spend a fuck ton to try and fix the shit trump 1.0 broke
einfach_orangensaft@sh.itjust.works · -14 pts · 321d
nobody ever comming to forcefull collect that debt if you have atomic weapons
AA5B@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 321d
And I wouldn’t put it past certain politicians to think this way. But currencies are valued based on economies, trading, their use in international exchange. It’s quite normal for an overleveraged country to have its currency devalued relative to everyone else. Sometimes by a lot.
Again, certain politicians have very little intelligent thought so they may even like this idea because your goods are cheaper, easier to export. Certain businessmen could really enrich themselves ….. if you don’t think or care about everyone else suffering under huge inflation, your economy flat lining without imports, even as tooling or ingredients.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 320d
That debt is through Treasury bonds. They pay out that interest as it comes due. If they didn't, no one would but those bonds and they'd immediately be unable to borrow any more money to continue this spending scheme