They held out until the election was over. They had the voters behind them on this and naturally betrayed them immediately as soon as they got what they wanted.
Americans are divided in who they blame more for the shutdown: In a choice between congressional Democrats and congressional Republicans, 32% blame Democrats most, 35% Republicans, and 28% both equally. Compared to when we asked this question in the October 17 - 20 Economist / YouGov survey, the share blaming mostly Republicans has fallen 4 percentage points and the share blaming both sides equally has gone up by 4 points.
I'm happy that the Dems held out. Hell, I'm happy that the majority is still holding out, despite those breaking ranks looking to undermine the effort. But that's not the same as pretending we are the fucking majority
Funny that you didn't post the parts immediately before and after that snippet. Before:
A YouGov survey released Friday found 32 percent of respondents blame Democrats for the shutdown, while 35 percent fault Republicans and 28 percent say both parties are equally responsible.
After:
But over the past month, net approval for how parties are handling the shutdown has worsened for both President Trump (-21 to -27) and congressional Republicans (-23 to -27). Net approval for congressional Democrats has stayed low but mostly unchanged (-25 to -26) since October, according to YouGov.
You're just hyper-focusing on the part that you find rhetorically convenient. More people still blamed the Republicans and support for the Republicans's handling of the shutdown was falling faster.
A shutdown, furthermore, that most voters were against to begin with.
Lmao did you just provide more evidence to undermine your own position?
Who would you blame more if there is a shutdown of the federal government at the end of the month, the Democrats in Congress, Donald Trump and the Republicans in Congress or both equally? Or have you not heard enough to say?
You’re just hyper-focusing on the part that you find rhetorically convenient. More people still blamed the Republicans and support for the Republicans’s handling of the shutdown was falling faster.
"More people blamed the Republicans, but most people are not in support of the shutdown and the numbers for the Dems are worsening"
Yes, clearly this contradicts what I initially commented.
Go back to remedial literacy. Get a passing grade this time, if you can understand which of the funny symbols that is.
Lmao did you just provide more evidence to undermine your own position?
I'm sorry that you're illiterate.
Grow a spine.
Grow a brain, or a sense of morality. But pro-genocide bootlickers like you revel in the deaths of minorities, if only it's done by the fascists wearing the right team colors. That's why you deny the Uyghur Genocide, after all.
You're right, because I don't support genocide. We are clearly very far apart on that matter.
Sorry that I've been calling out Palestinian genocide for over a decade. I know that's terribly inconvenient for bootlickers like you who desperately want others to be your mirror image. I'm sorry that my position on genocide isn't determined by team colors.
So no response to actual evidence that the voters weren’t behind them, cool.
You're not owed interaction on your terms. You're not entitled to a debate, sea lion.
I don’t support the 8 Dems who broke ranks
You are by making excuses for their actions. And I don't believe for an instant that you don't support this. You had your one little poll just ready to go for when your wing of the party did what you wanted, just like you spent an entire year supporting them BECAUSE they were selling weapons to netanyahu.
The meaning of Sea Lioning is not “Refutes my points 😭” but “Insists on an engagement by bad faith inquiries”
Yes. Which is what you were doing.
Where did I excuse their actions?
By pretending they had reason to fear continuing the shutdown. You know better.
I’ve been calling out Israeli genocide and advocating against all US aid for Israel for longer than Lemmy has existed, but go off, I guess.
And then started advocating for those who enabled netanyahu as soon as you made a lemmy account for some reason.
If people were blaming the shutdown on democrats, they would have lost. They won. Now their voters are seeing that they've been had. Your wing of the party shamelessly betrayed its voters. Well, they didn't betray you.
You think that... citing a source... and saying that you are incorrect... is a question.
And you think that responding to me in an argument is me attempting to engage an unwilling participant by use of bad faith inquiries.
... fucking what.
By pretending they had reason to fear continuing the shutdown. You know better.
I don't 'know better', as public discontent over the shutdown is serious. I fear the backlash from the shutdown. I support the shutdown continuing for the dual reasons of the inhumanity of the GOP proposal and the fact that the backlash from GOP cuts might be worse in the long run not because I believe the shutdown is some massively popular issue at the moment. Some 70% of the electorate didn't want the Dems to pull the trigger on the shutdown - I'm glad they did anyway! But that's really fucking different from pretending that there's mass support for the issue.
At no point was justification offered for the eight Dems who broke ranks; only that the notion that they had the voters 'behind them' was ridiculous by the numbers.
And then started advocating for those who enabled netanyahu as soon as you made a lemmy account for some reason.
Ah, yes, "Please don't assist the fascist, he's literally more pro-Israel than even Biden", the sin that a Very Real Leftist(tm) like yourself could never forgive. Any number of murdered minorities, after all, including additional murdered Palestinians, is worth your moral high ground of banging the drum against the great monolith of "The DEMS"
If people were blaming the shutdown on democrats, they would have lost. They won.
What the fuck?
Now their voters are seeing that they’ve been had. Your wing of the party shamelessly betrayed its voters. Well, they didn’t betray you.
It's really not a good idea to put ALL your Credibility Eggs into the Poll Basket. MAGAs have been gaming the polls for years, the Conservative Propaganda Machine tells them how, and encourages them, and they are becoming more and more unreliable. It's a very bad idea to rely on one single poll for all your evidence.
The 8 who caved:
Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada
Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois
Sen. John Fetterman of Pennsylvania
Sen. Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire
Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia
Sen. Angus King of Maine
Sen. Jacky Rosen of Nevada
Sen. Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire
Not familiar with the last two, but all the rest are amongst the most frequent collaborators with the fascists, usually COMPLETELY contrary to the wishes and needs of their constituencies.
They must all be primaried as soon as possible, if not recalled where that's available!
The shutdown was so UNPOPULAR that democrats all LOST in the most recent election!
If you think that the FEDERAL shutdown was a major issue for the Mayor of New York City (who had been leading in the polls for months) and the governorship of New Jersey and Virginia (where the polls had also been clear since before the shutdown), you're out of your gourd.
If you think that the FEDERAL shutdown was a major issue for the Mayor of New York City (who had been leading in the polls for months) and the governorship of New Jersey and Virginia (where the polls had also been clear since before the shutdown), you’re out of your gourd.
If you think that the voters didn't respond well to a party that was finally pretending to start stand up for them, you have no idea how branding works. Well, at least they capitulated like they do on everything but genocide support, so healthcare subsidies are going away. So it's a win for you. Democrats existing brand, the one everyone but centrists like you were pissed off about, is maintained.
If you think that the voters didn’t respond well to a party that was finally pretending to start stand up for them, you have no idea how branding works.
The same voters who increasingly blamed the Dems for the shutdown as it's dragged on?
I'm sorry that you live in a fantasy land instead of the real world. I understand that the reality-based community is deeply offensive to you.
fetterman isnt surprising he made pretty known like a year now. the other 8-10 dinos felt safe to come out of the woodwork to show them they are really DINOS.
C'mon guys. The Republicans are totally going to fix healthcare just like they promised in 1993, 2002, 2008, 2010, 20162017, 2020, 2024, The Last Week.
I mean can you blame them? They dug their heels in and said we're are only going to compromise if they give into our health care demands.
The Republicans said no to this so the shutdown began. They were about to find a compromise, but suddenly the Republicans said no again (Trumpy wants to play replace Romney Care again)
This is when you have to cave, when you don't get what you want and nothing was resolved. After all, after 10+ years with nothing to replace it the Republicans have got to be allowed some more time.
First of all, there are no Republicans. That was their larval stage, and they metamorphosed into their final form - MAGA.
And they may not have a plan, but they have "concepts of a plan," after 15 years, so in another 15 years, they may actually have improved to "potential steps to take to create a plan."
We can wait, nobody will need medical care before then, except those whiney Liberals, always crying about something. Let them suffer, MAGAs think that's funny.
Correct, ALL Republicans are now MAGAs. PedoCons is also an acceptable alternative, the way GOP has been a stand-in for Republican.
So the proper modern nomenclature is now MAGA/PedoCon.
Republicans should not be referred to, except in a scholarly, academic, historical context.
That should be the official policy of the Democratic Party. Conservatives love being Republicans, they think its honorable, so take it away from them, and absolutely refuse to go back. Clearly they think it's mean & funny to call the Democratic Party the Democrat Party, and make Dems all indignant (which is stupid on both sides, but it is what it is), so let's give them a taste of their own medicine, and see how they like it.
I thought it was a reference to Ama no Iwato. Amaterasu hid away from the world because she was upset at her brother being an arsehole and fucking people over.
DEMS dont really have a campaign strategy that is not aoc, bernie, other than riding the coattails of the gop when they do something bad to ruin the economy.
90 Comments
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 66 pts · 303d
They held out until the election was over. They had the voters behind them on this and naturally betrayed them immediately as soon as they got what they wanted.
PugJesus@piefed.social · -18 pts · 303d
You just say whatever 'feels' right, huh?
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · 21 pts · 303d
Did you even read your own source? <5% of registered dems blamed the dems, and ~21% of registered independents.
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/53352-are-people-changing-their-minds-about-the-shutdown
PugJesus@piefed.social · -9 pts · 303d
A shutdown, furthermore, that most voters were against to begin with.
I'm happy that the Dems held out. Hell, I'm happy that the majority is still holding out, despite those breaking ranks looking to undermine the effort. But that's not the same as pretending we are the fucking majority
Objection@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 303d
Funny that you didn't post the parts immediately before and after that snippet. Before:
After:
You're just hyper-focusing on the part that you find rhetorically convenient. More people still blamed the Republicans and support for the Republicans's handling of the shutdown was falling faster.
Lmao did you just provide more evidence to undermine your own position?
Grow a spine.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 303d
Valid.
PugJesus@piefed.social · -12 pts · 303d
"More people blamed the Republicans, but most people are not in support of the shutdown and the numbers for the Dems are worsening"
Yes, clearly this contradicts what I initially commented.
Go back to remedial literacy. Get a passing grade this time, if you can understand which of the funny symbols that is.
I'm sorry that you're illiterate.
Grow a brain, or a sense of morality. But pro-genocide bootlickers like you revel in the deaths of minorities, if only it's done by the fascists wearing the right team colors. That's why you deny the Uyghur Genocide, after all.
Objection@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 303d
Looked in a mirror lately?
I don't support any genocide, the way you do.
PugJesus@piefed.social · -7 pts · 303d
This you, denialist bootlicker?
You're right, because I don't support genocide. We are clearly very far apart on that matter.
Sorry that I've been calling out Palestinian genocide for over a decade. I know that's terribly inconvenient for bootlickers like you who desperately want others to be your mirror image. I'm sorry that my position on genocide isn't determined by team colors.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 303d
We can all agree shithole politicians caused this shutdown.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 303d
You just defend the worst actions of democrats no matter what they do.
PugJesus@piefed.social · -11 pts · 303d
So no response to actual evidence that the voters weren't behind them, cool.
I guess your inner Republican craves 'truthiness' over truth, huh?
I don't support the 8 Dems who broke ranks, but that's fucking different from pretending that this was a popular shutdown.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 303d
You're not owed interaction on your terms. You're not entitled to a debate, sea lion.
You are by making excuses for their actions. And I don't believe for an instant that you don't support this. You had your one little poll just ready to go for when your wing of the party did what you wanted, just like you spent an entire year supporting them BECAUSE they were selling weapons to netanyahu.
PugJesus@piefed.social · -5 pts · 303d
lmao
The meaning of Sea Lioning is not "Refutes my points 😭" but "Insists on an engagement by bad faith inquiries"
Engaging with me, and after I presented evidence, not a question, is as far from proving me a Sea Lion as you can get.
Sorry that refuting your bullshit hurt your feelings.
Where did I excuse their actions?
lmao
lmao
Fucking lmao.
I've been calling out Israeli genocide and advocating against all US aid for Israel for longer than Lemmy has existed, but go off, I guess.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 303d
Yes. Which is what you were doing.
By pretending they had reason to fear continuing the shutdown. You know better.
And then started advocating for those who enabled netanyahu as soon as you made a lemmy account for some reason.
If people were blaming the shutdown on democrats, they would have lost. They won. Now their voters are seeing that they've been had. Your wing of the party shamelessly betrayed its voters. Well, they didn't betray you.
PugJesus@piefed.social · -3 pts · 303d
You think that... citing a source... and saying that you are incorrect... is a question.
And you think that responding to me in an argument is me attempting to engage an unwilling participant by use of bad faith inquiries.
... fucking what.
I don't 'know better', as public discontent over the shutdown is serious. I fear the backlash from the shutdown. I support the shutdown continuing for the dual reasons of the inhumanity of the GOP proposal and the fact that the backlash from GOP cuts might be worse in the long run not because I believe the shutdown is some massively popular issue at the moment. Some 70% of the electorate didn't want the Dems to pull the trigger on the shutdown - I'm glad they did anyway! But that's really fucking different from pretending that there's mass support for the issue.
At no point was justification offered for the eight Dems who broke ranks; only that the notion that they had the voters 'behind them' was ridiculous by the numbers.
Ah, yes, "Please don't assist the fascist, he's literally more pro-Israel than even Biden", the sin that a Very Real Leftist(tm) like yourself could never forgive. Any number of murdered minorities, after all, including additional murdered Palestinians, is worth your moral high ground of banging the drum against the great monolith of "The DEMS"
What the fuck?
Lord.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 303d
It's really not a good idea to put ALL your Credibility Eggs into the Poll Basket. MAGAs have been gaming the polls for years, the Conservative Propaganda Machine tells them how, and encourages them, and they are becoming more and more unreliable. It's a very bad idea to rely on one single poll for all your evidence.
BC_viper@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 303d
They fucking caved. And they are now fucking traitors. And there is only one option for a traitor fuck.
Gigasser@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 303d
The 8 who caved: Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois Sen. John Fetterman of Pennsylvania Sen. Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia Sen. Angus King of Maine Sen. Jacky Rosen of Nevada Sen. Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 11 pts · 303d
Not familiar with the last two, but all the rest are amongst the most frequent collaborators with the fascists, usually COMPLETELY contrary to the wishes and needs of their constituencies.
They must all be primaried as soon as possible, if not recalled where that's available!
PugJesus@piefed.social · 6 pts · 303d
Fuck them all. Especially Kaine and Fetterman.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 303d
But they HAD to! The shutdown was so UNPOPULAR that democrats all LOST in the most recent election!
/s not because the sarcasm isn't obvious, but because I don't trust centrists to not ignore the sarcasm on purpose.
PugJesus@piefed.social · -8 pts · 303d
If you think that the FEDERAL shutdown was a major issue for the Mayor of New York City (who had been leading in the polls for months) and the governorship of New Jersey and Virginia (where the polls had also been clear since before the shutdown), you're out of your gourd.
Or bullshitting in bad faith, as per usual.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 303d
If you think that the voters didn't respond well to a party that was finally pretending to start stand up for them, you have no idea how branding works. Well, at least they capitulated like they do on everything but genocide support, so healthcare subsidies are going away. So it's a win for you. Democrats existing brand, the one everyone but centrists like you were pissed off about, is maintained.
PugJesus@piefed.social · -4 pts · 303d
The same voters who increasingly blamed the Dems for the shutdown as it's dragged on?
I'm sorry that you live in a fantasy land instead of the real world. I understand that the reality-based community is deeply offensive to you.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 303d
I suppose we'll see if capitulation makes them more popular.
Says the guy who is trying to convince people that capitulation is a good thing after the party was rewarded for standing its ground.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 303d
fetterman isnt surprising he made pretty known like a year now. the other 8-10 dinos felt safe to come out of the woodwork to show them they are really DINOS.
PugJesus@piefed.social · 4 pts · 303d
Yeah, that's why fuck him especially. He's been a piece of shit for a while.
dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 303d
and chuck schumer who orchestrated it while cosplaying as a no sayer
kreskin@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 303d
yes, we give them all of our money.
jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works · 40 pts · 303d
C'mon guys. The Republicans are totally going to fix healthcare just like they promised in
1993,2002,2008,2010,20162017,2020,2024, The Last Week.Shouldn't take more than about two weeks.
RedEyeFlightControl@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 303d
Please tell me they at least have concepts of a plan
Lawnman23@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 303d
They do. Get rid of the ACA and make you pay for insurance directly with funds they will supposedly give to you based on…TBD.
And yes, it’s true.
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 303d
But they got a "promise" on a vote later.
I mean can you blame them? They dug their heels in and said we're are only going to compromise if they give into our health care demands.
The Republicans said no to this so the shutdown began. They were about to find a compromise, but suddenly the Republicans said no again (Trumpy wants to play replace Romney Care again)
This is when you have to cave, when you don't get what you want and nothing was resolved. After all, after 10+ years with nothing to replace it the Republicans have got to be allowed some more time.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 303d
First of all, there are no Republicans. That was their larval stage, and they metamorphosed into their final form - MAGA.
And they may not have a plan, but they have "concepts of a plan," after 15 years, so in another 15 years, they may actually have improved to "potential steps to take to create a plan."
We can wait, nobody will need medical care before then, except those whiney Liberals, always crying about something. Let them suffer, MAGAs think that's funny.
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 303d
You are right, there is only Maga now. All the the "traditional conservatives" still vote for Maga. So they are Maga now.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 302d
Correct, ALL Republicans are now MAGAs. PedoCons is also an acceptable alternative, the way GOP has been a stand-in for Republican.
So the proper modern nomenclature is now MAGA/PedoCon.
Republicans should not be referred to, except in a scholarly, academic, historical context.
That should be the official policy of the Democratic Party. Conservatives love being Republicans, they think its honorable, so take it away from them, and absolutely refuse to go back. Clearly they think it's mean & funny to call the Democratic Party the Democrat Party, and make Dems all indignant (which is stupid on both sides, but it is what it is), so let's give them a taste of their own medicine, and see how they like it.
db2@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 303d
The political party they tell you not to worry about:
obinice@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 303d
They... Went into a tunnel? This is something to do with the USA isn't it xD
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 9 pts · 303d
They caved... Bigly.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 303d
They caved in. This cave is open.
Dojan@pawb.social · 2 pts · 303d
I thought it was a reference to Ama no Iwato. Amaterasu hid away from the world because she was upset at her brother being an arsehole and fucking people over.
It kind of fit.
cosmicpancake@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 303d
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 9 pts · 303d
DEMS dont really have a campaign strategy that is not aoc, bernie, other than riding the coattails of the gop when they do something bad to ruin the economy.
Amir@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 303d
Not sure if they caved or opened their holes
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 303d
That's not a cave in for sure.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 303d
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 303d
it would be more correct if the cave actually "caved in"
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 303d
They some big ass holes
dan1101@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 303d
Shafted the American people?
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 303d
Nah, there's a light at the end if that "cave", but not the real one.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 303d
You mean the oncoming train about to run over everyone who's not a rich white Christian fascist man?
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 302d
Yeah, I meant the image has a light at the end. The real situation doesn't
I_Jedi@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 303d
I hear stocks on spelunking equipment are going up.
SadnAlone@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 302d