Archive link for those of us in the customs union.
Uh oh 😳. It's Wes Streeting whom we all hate because of NHS. But he wants us to rejoin the Custom's Union. Fuck! How do we choose? Will it be a path to rejoining or will it be in fighting and dogma? 🫠😜.
49 Comments
moderatecentrist@feddit.uk · 9 pts · 247d
Increasing our trade with Europe (whether it's with a customs union or some other measure) would be good for two reasons:
deHaga@feddit.uk · -2 pts · 247d
The UK specialises in services exports, which are unaffected by a customs union.
Perhaps the EU should become less protectionist, it might help their stagnant economic performance.
moderatecentrist@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 247d
I don't know if the right solution is a customs union, or participation in some areas of the single market, or something else. I just read that the UK's post-Brexit arrangements "will reduce long-run productivity by 4 per cent relative to remaining in the EU", so presumably if we boost trade with Europe in certain ways, it should increase British productivity
deHaga@feddit.uk · 0 pts · 246d
Returning to common law for regulations more than offsets an annual 0.26% loss of productivity.
And the UK's productivity problems occured while in the EU anyway.
moderatecentrist@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 245d
I linked to the OBR and I find their statements interesting because they're saying the UK's productivity will be 4% lower than if the UK remained in the EU. You say the UK had productivity problems while the UK was in the EU. Let's assume for a second that's true. Then what the OBR is saying is that there is an additional factor negatively affecting British productivity; that factor is Brexit.
Also I think closer ties with Europe would be good because a united Europe can more effectively stand up to big global powers like the US, Russia, and China. I don't want to see the UK bending over backwards to accommodate Trump and his illiberal colleagues. Europe together has real weight to push back against the US. E.g. if the UK alone were to tariff American goods then it wouldn't affect the US too much, but if all of Europe did the same thing together, it would affect the US much more.
deHaga@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 245d
It's a negative forecast based on a loss of comparative advantage in polluting, carbon heavy, low margin goods trade. They factor no increase of competitive advantage in low carbon, low polluting, high margin services exports.
Services exports are up 75% since 2016.
They are not great forecasters.
moderatecentrist@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 244d
I don't know how they came up with their numbers but media outlets seem to be confident quoting their figures. Also I found this written by a Tory who was an MP and is now in the House of Lords:
If I were to see news articles saying that Brexit is having a fantastically positive effect on the British economy then maybe I'll look at Brexit as being somewhat beneficial. But I haven't seen that. Also like I said, I think having close ties with Europe can have some benefits beyond just easing international trade. It means Europe together can stand up against big countries who dislike Europe and want to harm Europe.
Maybe we won't agree though. I guess you think Brexit is going to be a good thing for the UK in the long-term? I guess I'm not so convinced about that.
deHaga@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 244d
Yes, another bullshit doppleganger model commissioned by a politician. Maybe investigate this crap before posting it as fact. Meanwhile the UK is still performing exactly the same as its real dopplegangers, France and Germany.
The benefit of leaving the EU is being out of the environmental disasters that are the common agriculture and fishing policies, not whether Doris from Devon can still sell 4 pieces of cheese a week.
0.29% of UK companies stopped exporting. Big deal.
9point6@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 248d
Weirdly archive.is sometimes doesn't load for me
So here it is on archive.ph too
https://archive.ph/20251221200353/https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/wes-streeting-labour-uk-customs-union-eu-33p8fjd5z
mannycalavera@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 248d
Oh thank you 🙏. It's the reverse for me.
RobotToaster@mander.xyz · 3 pts · 248d
A customs union (as opposed to a free trade area) would require us to allow the EU to control what external tariffs we set, that would effectively make Chinese and American goods a lot more expensive.
sunbeam60@feddit.uk · 18 pts · 248d
And given how much China and the US are our friends, that would just be terrible.
Oh no, we’d buy more stuff more Europe, how terrible. Then it’ll have to get shipped locally: the terror!!!
And then European businesses and consumers might start buying from the UK again! That will not stand!!
RobotToaster@mander.xyz · -6 pts · 248d
You're happy to increase the price of pretty much everything, so a few rich people can buy overpriced German cars slightly cheaper?
sunbeam60@feddit.uk · 9 pts · 248d
More than half of all U.K. imports come from the EU. That’s AFTER Brexit, so lower compared to what it was before.
Only 13% of UK imports come from the US. 7% from China. Even combined it’s less than half of EU imports.
You’ve got your numbers flipped around mate.
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space · 7 pts · 248d
Europe isn’t just luxury marques. It has a huge market of everyday goods, including food made there, which meets the same standards the UK hasn’t yet abandoned and is close enough to be more cost-effective than shipping over the oceans. US and Chinese manufactured goods may go up slightly (but not by much; the UK would have the same deal as the EU), but that would be offset by access to the European market (not to mention the UK being able to export to the EU with a lot less hassle; the Europeans do buy a lot of British goods, and would buy more if they became more competitive).
Apepollo11@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 248d
Plus, we've already played this game. Even adjusting for everything, things were cheaper before we left the EU.
The only arguments against rejoining a customs union with the EU are ideological, because we've hard proof that being outside the customs union is less beneficial than being within it.
moderatecentrist@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 247d
There are many affordable goods that can be bought from countries that aren't the US or China. I actually think I would rather buy things that aren't from the US or China. Both of those countries don't seem to like Europe or the UK very much.
FelixCress@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 247d
RobotToaster@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 247d
I support a FTA, possibly by re-joining the EFTA.
FelixCress@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 248d
Good.
steeznson@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 246d
This has been signposted for a long time by the fact that we have not done any regulatory realignment after importing the EU laws into the UK wholesale.
IcyToes@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 248d
They trying to hand the keys early to Reform?
FelixCress@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 248d
Yes, because pandering to fascists ended up so well last time. Oh, hold on...
IcyToes@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 248d
?
FelixCress@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 248d
Which word caused you trouble?
IcyToes@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 248d
What was the point you were making? Are you insinuating I was suggesting pandering?
FelixCress@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 248d
Yes.
It doesn't and shouldn't matter what fascists think.
IcyToes@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 247d
You see, that's the problem. Many people voted for Brexit. Left and right. I know if those from the right that cannot stand Reform. You cannot say Norway is racist for not being part of the EU. We have always been arms length, hence why we kept the pound. The public never signed up to the EU fully. It was voted for, decided and any democrat would accept it's a constraint the country needs to work within. The whole wait 5 years, ignore it and rejoin later just drives folk to Reform, angry that they aren't being listened to.
You don't fight fascism by ignoring democracy. You normalise it. And yes, I voted remain, but arrogantly thinking you're right and folk are dumb or evil, serves your ego rather than decent principles like democracy which is the cornerstone of our society.
I do agree we shouldn't pander though and these punish migrant policies Labour are pushing is normalising this. With their people snooping policies, its fascism lite. An introduction.
FelixCress@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 247d
Three kinds of people voted for Brexshit:
Opinion of neither should be taken into consideration.
For all practical intent and purpose (apart from fishing), Norway is part of the EU.
Is your name "the public"?
This is a completely moronic argument used in bad faith by Brexshiters as it assumes voters don't change their minds and no new voters enter the voting age. People voted for Thatcher, no election needed since. 🙄
Fascists, racists and nazis shouldn't be listened to. They should be educated or compulsorily re-educated if needed. There should be a new legislation and people presenting such views should have their electoral rights taken away.
There should be no democracy for enemies of democracy. NSDAP was democratically elected. Appeasement and ignoring lead nowhere - these people should be removed from public life.