These people should learn that there's a vast difference between a number of things, and they all mean different things:
Country:
Pro or Anti-Israel and Pro or Anti-Palestine
Political:
Pro or Anti-Zionist and Pro or Anti-Hamas
Religion:
Pro or Anti-Jewish and Pro or anti-Islamic
People:
Pro or Anti-Israeli and Pro or anti-Palestinian
Actions:
Pro or Anti-Genocide and Pro or Anti-rockets/guerilla attacks
None of these heading mean the same thing. You can have different opinions about the politics than you do about the people. That is allowed. Conflating them is antisemitic, and disingenuous. Those who campaign for blanket bans and censorship based on disagreements of politics are doing themselves and their causes a great disservice. Supporting Jews doesn't mean you love genocide. Supporting Palestinians doesn't mean you support Hamas.
e.g. I'm Pro-Israel and Palestine, Anti-Zionist and Hamas, Pro Jewish and Islamic, Pro Israeli and Palestinian, and Anti genocide and rockets.
Fed up with all these cunts and their thought crime.
I'm anti-religion if it's used to justify atrocities and/or thrust upon society. If it's for their own internal peace and philosophy, then I have less qualms. But admittedly it's rarely ever used in that way, and usually coercion and power are the main drivers , especially in organised religion
Anti-religion as a means to hurt others, yes. I'd not ever say I'm pro religion but I don't mind religious people or people having a religion. I don't judge them just because they have different feelings about God, only by their actions.
Edit: I should say I'm atheist and a scientist but understand some people need faith as a means of explanation for their world and whatnot. It's not for me. All religions CAN be read and practiced peacefully if they choose to be. It's not the religion itself that is fundamentally wrong, but the way it's twisted to justify actions.
Hah, hey look if it helps some people than yes, it's fine as long as it's not affecting non-believers rights to do what they want too. It's no more wrong than any other (as far fetched as it may be but that's for the follower to decide). Edit: I also said somewhere that life is a series of grey areas too - everything is a spectrum
Those who benefit overtly financially from taking advantage of people in a weakened state are...morally destitute imo. Look, everyone needs a job and deserves to be paid a fair wage for the work they perform but if that job is ripping people off, that's where I draw the line. Price gouging is the issue more than the job itself and also tax-exempt status of many of these organisations. But now we're broaching into other realms..
It'll be interesting to see what comes of this. Whoever sent this has clearly never been to a WOMAD festival, because that crowd is not likely to appreciate someone trying to influence the lineup.
I can't think of anything the better the writers of this letter could have done to Streisand Effect that crowd into seeking out some DJ that might otherwise have been one act among several.
The DJs are usually pretty popular regardless, in my experience. They play later at night when there is less going on and people are drunk and just want to have a good time dancing under the bats.
They must be fucking mad that Boiler Room is canceled by every underground DJ because of the KKR investment found that bought it (KKR also have investments on the Israeli gencid3 industry).
22 Comments
hayvan@piefed.world · 33 pts · 213d
Pro-Israel is a silly term right now. Pro-genocide is more accurate.
Mantzy81@aussie.zone · 19 pts · 213d
These people should learn that there's a vast difference between a number of things, and they all mean different things:
Country: Pro or Anti-Israel and Pro or Anti-Palestine
Political: Pro or Anti-Zionist and Pro or Anti-Hamas
Religion: Pro or Anti-Jewish and Pro or anti-Islamic
People: Pro or Anti-Israeli and Pro or anti-Palestinian
Actions: Pro or Anti-Genocide and Pro or Anti-rockets/guerilla attacks
None of these heading mean the same thing. You can have different opinions about the politics than you do about the people. That is allowed. Conflating them is antisemitic, and disingenuous. Those who campaign for blanket bans and censorship based on disagreements of politics are doing themselves and their causes a great disservice. Supporting Jews doesn't mean you love genocide. Supporting Palestinians doesn't mean you support Hamas.
e.g. I'm Pro-Israel and Palestine, Anti-Zionist and Hamas, Pro Jewish and Islamic, Pro Israeli and Palestinian, and Anti genocide and rockets.
Fed up with all these cunts and their thought crime.
Zozano@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 213d
I'm with you on all of those points, except that I'm anti-religion as a whole.
Zionism is a product of prophecy; the takeover of Palestine is partially the fault of religion.
"Why should Israel leave? Everyone else should leave"
Mantzy81@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 213d
I'm anti-religion if it's used to justify atrocities and/or thrust upon society. If it's for their own internal peace and philosophy, then I have less qualms. But admittedly it's rarely ever used in that way, and usually coercion and power are the main drivers , especially in organised religion
Zozano@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 213d
Soooo... Since its used to justify atrocities and is thrust upon society, you're anti religion?
Mantzy81@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 213d
Anti-religion as a means to hurt others, yes. I'd not ever say I'm pro religion but I don't mind religious people or people having a religion. I don't judge them just because they have different feelings about God, only by their actions.
Edit: I should say I'm atheist and a scientist but understand some people need faith as a means of explanation for their world and whatnot. It's not for me. All religions CAN be read and practiced peacefully if they choose to be. It's not the religion itself that is fundamentally wrong, but the way it's twisted to justify actions.
Zozano@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 213d
Hey man, you said people are either pro, or anti.
I'm just being the one to hold your feet to the fire.
Would you say Scientology is not fundamentally wrong, and that the people who benefit financially are twisting L. Ron Hubbard's cosmic wisdom?
Mantzy81@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 212d
Hah, hey look if it helps some people than yes, it's fine as long as it's not affecting non-believers rights to do what they want too. It's no more wrong than any other (as far fetched as it may be but that's for the follower to decide). Edit: I also said somewhere that life is a series of grey areas too - everything is a spectrum
Those who benefit overtly financially from taking advantage of people in a weakened state are...morally destitute imo. Look, everyone needs a job and deserves to be paid a fair wage for the work they perform but if that job is ripping people off, that's where I draw the line. Price gouging is the issue more than the job itself and also tax-exempt status of many of these organisations. But now we're broaching into other realms..
lodion@aussie.zone · 4 pts · 213d
100% agree. Sadly most of the people conflating these concepts are doing so deliberately to push their own agendas.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 213d
This is an incoherent and contradictory set of stances.
Mantzy81@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 213d
Only if you think in black and white without realising the world is all shades of grey.
Explain your reasoning and what you mean rather than "nah uh" as that doesn't help the conversation
Zozano@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 213d
Which part specifically?
astutemural@midwest.social · 1 pts · 213d
Israel is founded on crimes against humanity. It is impossible to support both Israel and Palestine.
Zozano@aussie.zone · 6 pts · 213d
So is basically every country. This isn't a realistic argument for the Israeli people to pack up and fuck off.
That's not true. A real two-state solution is the only ethical outcome.
You can argue that this is impossible, and I'm not saying it isn't, but anything besides a two-state solution is not ethical.
astutemural@midwest.social · 2 pts · 213d
One nation, called Palestine. Israelis can apply for a visa.
Zozano@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 213d
You think this is realistic?
Mantzy81@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 213d
Australia was founded on crimes against humanity. Is it impossible to support both Australia and First Nations?
astutemural@midwest.social · 2 pts · 213d
Yes
Zozano@aussie.zone · 0 pts · 213d
> be me
> support Australia
> support First Nations People
> this is literally impossible
> reality shifts to accommodate my contradictory perspective
> First Nations People become Australian
> "wtf how is this possible?! They're totally contradictory identities?!"
Nath@aussie.zone · 14 pts · 213d
It'll be interesting to see what comes of this. Whoever sent this has clearly never been to a WOMAD festival, because that crowd is not likely to appreciate someone trying to influence the lineup.
I can't think of anything the better the writers of this letter could have done to Streisand Effect that crowd into seeking out some DJ that might otherwise have been one act among several.
Deceptichum@quokk.au · 9 pts · 213d
Ilandar@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 212d
The DJs are usually pretty popular regardless, in my experience. They play later at night when there is less going on and people are drunk and just want to have a good time dancing under the bats.
driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br · 7 pts · 213d
They must be fucking mad that Boiler Room is canceled by every underground DJ because of the KKR investment found that bought it (KKR also have investments on the Israeli gencid3 industry).