Because people in other areas aren't being personally affected much (yet). And they think they can't afford to lose pay or get fired; instead they'll just lose their country.
It's not so much that people aren't affected. It's that most don't want to risk being the first mover. Firing 1 person for missing work is easy. Firing half your staff for ye same thing is a lot harder for businesses.
The plus side is that it's akin to a supersaturated solution. Once a crystal does form, it can grow and spread rapidly.
People can't stop using Twitter - the absolute smallest of inconveniences - to quit supporting a Nazi. Actually doing a real thing, with potential real consequences - is beyond what most Americans appear to be willing to do.
People only act en masse when they are affected en masse. It's very selfish and very foolish but it's a symptom of a complete lack of group identity or group cohesion.
I love the energy but not shopping for one day does nothing.
People are just going to delay their purchases. Better would be to cut all unnecessary purchases, or to be selective about where you shop. Having lower than average numbers one day and higher than average numbers the next is literally not even going to move the needle.
The work stoppage, on the other hand, is a little more promising.
Yeah this is why sociologists tell people not to bother with these. It's slactivism, makes people feel good about themselves for participating but has no effect. So they likely think "Well, there's my good deed."
Just the same, a one-day national strike won't accomplish anything, and will actually be worse because only 1% of people will actually do it, making it a joke if the media covers it. And organizers waste so much time and energy on it.
No you gotta go be visible or make a permanent change.
Which sociologists say "not to bother"? Is it 9 out of 10 of them, like in a toothpaste commercial?
And why do you think people who participate in these things only do it once and stop? Generally the people who participate in one thing are the same people who continue participating in more things. Movements rarely spring full-force into existence at once, they build as more people are affected and/or become aware. Awareness is definitely starting to grow as even oblivious parts of the county are now starting to hear stuff getting through their bubbles that doesn't match the propaganda from their usual feeding trough.
TBH this post reads like a copy of the typical "your efforts are useless so don't bother" propaganda that every. single. post advocating activism gets--there are at least 5 times as many posts lie this trying to dissuade people from taking action as posts advocating action. Gee I wonder whose interests that helps?
If you want to argue about what works best and encourage more effective activities, go ahead and do that instead of just complaining about people who are doing something instead of nothing.
They literally said what I quoted and what I responded to: That sociologists say not to bother (who? which?) and that if people do one thing they think they're done and stop (not at all in my experience).
Okay I got one for you. The No Kings protests amounted to absolutely nothing and things have only gotten worse. From my experience it sounds like the person you're replying to is more correct.
Protesting isn't effective until it is. Maybe it never will be or maybe the tide will turn or who knows what. We only know doing nothing accomplishes nothing. There are plenty of cases on video of people in Minneapolis preventing ICE from taking people when a crowd showed up yelling, recording, and blowing whistles, where ICE turned around and left. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't.
Now since you know so much about what doesn't work, tell me what should people be doing and what you have done to help make whatever that is happen? I'm tired of every time people try to take action and there's a post about it on here, you all come swarming out of the woodwork to repeat your same old talking points saying it's useless and no one should bother. What is your agenda?
Either actually start doing something you think will be effective or shut up about it. Stop trying to dissuade the people who are actually doing something, whether you think they're effective or not.
I quit my job and am advocating for a general strike. A method that will have an actual effect. I will also inform people about methods of protest that are ineffective because there's too much on the line here to be so soft. Not everyone is as privileged, or they think fascism coming for them and their families will not be as harmful as lost labor.
Protesting is only effective because there is the implication that if nothing changes, the people will make a change.
What happens when the powers that be realize that the US people are all bark and no bite? Well, exactly the sort of stuff that is happening in Minnesota right now
While we did see a record low revenue on Jan 25th, we made up for it with record high revenue on Jan 26th. Not only was makeup buying more intense than normal activity, numbers were greatly helped by adding popular product links from the "thank you for your feedback" page, which also gives the executive team things to laugh about.
Yes. My wife is one of those people. I come home to packages on the porch every single day. Consumerism with excessive connectivity can lead to excessive spending
I think the proper tactic is to stand by what we are. Bernie ran as a democratic socialist. He normalized the use of that term. By doing so he connected his supporters to a history of ideas, tactics and, thinkers. We need to normalize the idea of a general strike.
Cut federal taxes and wipe your ass with interstate commerce rules. Pretty sure shit would change pretty damned quick if all trade stopped moving out of California.
Oh, that's easy. Stop doing what the feds tell you. No more federal taxes, and add in some nullification too. If other states like California, Illinois, and New York agree to help out of solidarity, threats of cut federal funding won't hit as hard.
The problem is avoiding the difficult situation of Trump sending in some guys to shoot some people and imprison the survivors.
A lot of Trump's power comes from the support of the oligarchs. Shutting everything down hurts them, and shows class solidarity which scares the shit out of them.
51 Comments
grimpy@lemmy.myserv.one · 67 pts · 217d
Why do this just in Minnesota? Why not do a nationwide economic blackout this Friday January 23?
CannonFodder@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 217d
Because people in other areas aren't being personally affected much (yet). And they think they can't afford to lose pay or get fired; instead they'll just lose their country.
cynar@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 217d
It's not so much that people aren't affected. It's that most don't want to risk being the first mover. Firing 1 person for missing work is easy. Firing half your staff for ye same thing is a lot harder for businesses.
The plus side is that it's akin to a supersaturated solution. Once a crystal does form, it can grow and spread rapidly.
ripcord@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 217d
Also most people are lazy and don't give a shit.
People can't stop using Twitter - the absolute smallest of inconveniences - to quit supporting a Nazi. Actually doing a real thing, with potential real consequences - is beyond what most Americans appear to be willing to do.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · -2 pts · 217d
Lol, I'm sorry, you think we haven't already lost our country?
It's good to see optimists here on Lemmy.
Oh, and yeah, very few can afford to miss a day of work. I feel like people not from here don't believe that... Maybe check your privilege.
beanie@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 216d
Either way, soon you won’t have any jobs
minorkeys@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 217d
People only act en masse when they are affected en masse. It's very selfish and very foolish but it's a symptom of a complete lack of group identity or group cohesion.
piecat@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 217d
I'll participate.
kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 216d
It's almost like there has been a huge campaign to divide the US.
Bocky@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 217d
An economic blackout won’t hurt ice at all, it will only hurt the local businesses.
I’m very open to hear ideas that will directly be felt by ice agents though. Non violent ideas
cheesybuddha@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 217d
Is the correct response to violence always nonviolence?
If so, that directly contradicts the fact that my grandad was considered a hero for enacting violence on fascists in Europe
CileTheSane@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 216d
It will scare the shit out of the oligarchs that are proping up Trump, the last thing they want to see is class solidarity.
Bocky@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 213d
I don’t think it will
cheesybuddha@lemmy.world · 47 pts · 217d
I love the energy but not shopping for one day does nothing.
People are just going to delay their purchases. Better would be to cut all unnecessary purchases, or to be selective about where you shop. Having lower than average numbers one day and higher than average numbers the next is literally not even going to move the needle.
The work stoppage, on the other hand, is a little more promising.
BanMe@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 217d
Yeah this is why sociologists tell people not to bother with these. It's slactivism, makes people feel good about themselves for participating but has no effect. So they likely think "Well, there's my good deed."
Just the same, a one-day national strike won't accomplish anything, and will actually be worse because only 1% of people will actually do it, making it a joke if the media covers it. And organizers waste so much time and energy on it.
No you gotta go be visible or make a permanent change.
leadore@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 217d
Which sociologists say "not to bother"? Is it 9 out of 10 of them, like in a toothpaste commercial?
And why do you think people who participate in these things only do it once and stop? Generally the people who participate in one thing are the same people who continue participating in more things. Movements rarely spring full-force into existence at once, they build as more people are affected and/or become aware. Awareness is definitely starting to grow as even oblivious parts of the county are now starting to hear stuff getting through their bubbles that doesn't match the propaganda from their usual feeding trough.
TBH this post reads like a copy of the typical "your efforts are useless so don't bother" propaganda that every. single. post advocating activism gets--there are at least 5 times as many posts lie this trying to dissuade people from taking action as posts advocating action. Gee I wonder whose interests that helps?
If you want to argue about what works best and encourage more effective activities, go ahead and do that instead of just complaining about people who are doing something instead of nothing.
mika_mika@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 217d
They're not saying that. They're saying those efforts are useless so do something that actually matters. Like a general strike.
leadore@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 216d
They literally said what I quoted and what I responded to: That sociologists say not to bother (who? which?) and that if people do one thing they think they're done and stop (not at all in my experience).
mika_mika@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 216d
Okay I got one for you. The No Kings protests amounted to absolutely nothing and things have only gotten worse. From my experience it sounds like the person you're replying to is more correct.
leadore@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 216d
Protesting isn't effective until it is. Maybe it never will be or maybe the tide will turn or who knows what. We only know doing nothing accomplishes nothing. There are plenty of cases on video of people in Minneapolis preventing ICE from taking people when a crowd showed up yelling, recording, and blowing whistles, where ICE turned around and left. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't.
Now since you know so much about what doesn't work, tell me what should people be doing and what you have done to help make whatever that is happen? I'm tired of every time people try to take action and there's a post about it on here, you all come swarming out of the woodwork to repeat your same old talking points saying it's useless and no one should bother. What is your agenda?
Either actually start doing something you think will be effective or shut up about it. Stop trying to dissuade the people who are actually doing something, whether you think they're effective or not.
mika_mika@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 216d
I quit my job and am advocating for a general strike. A method that will have an actual effect. I will also inform people about methods of protest that are ineffective because there's too much on the line here to be so soft. Not everyone is as privileged, or they think fascism coming for them and their families will not be as harmful as lost labor.
cheesybuddha@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 216d
Protesting is only effective because there is the implication that if nothing changes, the people will make a change.
What happens when the powers that be realize that the US people are all bark and no bite? Well, exactly the sort of stuff that is happening in Minnesota right now
Ironfist79@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 216d
[citation needed]
Stop trying to discourage people from taking action.
Butterphinger@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 216d
Anything short of assembling an anti-fascist militia is a larp.
we'll just not buy things for a day or two
piss in the wind, go buy a gun.
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 216d
Shareholder call:
While we did see a record low revenue on Jan 25th, we made up for it with record high revenue on Jan 26th. Not only was makeup buying more intense than normal activity, numbers were greatly helped by adding popular product links from the "thank you for your feedback" page, which also gives the executive team things to laugh about.
GuyFawkesV@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 217d
First thing Donnie’s civilly forfeit assets need to go towards is reparations to Minnesota.
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 217d
I'll purchase nothing on Friday in solidarity.
I wasn't going to anyway, in fact I do all of my weekly shopping on Sunday morning. But, still.
(Do some people really find it any sort of hardship to not buy something one day a week?)
Gaja0@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 217d
No, but businesses notice when line go down. Panic ensues when the public realizes hyper-consumerism is optional.
Sc00ter@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 217d
Yes. My wife is one of those people. I come home to packages on the porch every single day. Consumerism with excessive connectivity can lead to excessive spending
minorkeys@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 217d
Love it when helping involves zero sacrifices.
RoflmasterBigPimp@feddit.org · 15 pts · 216d
Strikes are very powerful. One key rule: never announce in advance how long they will last or they will just wait you out!
In 1920, during the "Kapp Putsch", 12 million workers went on strike and the coup collapsed in about 100 hours!
RoflmasterBigPimp@feddit.org · 14 pts · 217d
Sooo, a strike?
PlaidBaron@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 217d
Cant use that word. Too communist or something. Idk.
SailorMoss@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 217d
I think the proper tactic is to stand by what we are. Bernie ran as a democratic socialist. He normalized the use of that term. By doing so he connected his supporters to a history of ideas, tactics and, thinkers. We need to normalize the idea of a general strike.
RoflmasterBigPimp@feddit.org · 1 pts · 217d
NGL, this was my first guess why they called it that.
cheesybuddha@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 217d
Also they are saying don't shop or go to school. So a strike plus other stuff, it looks like.
betahack@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 217d
fuck a day! do it for a week, a month!
redwattlebird@lemmings.world · 5 pts · 217d
Well, you pretty much continue until you get what your want. So the most effective thing to do is to strike indefinitely.
Fredselfish@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 217d
One day won't even slow ICE down. I bet their activities are already causing economic strain on the city now. Need to shut down until they leave.
adespoton@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 217d
The trick is, how do you make a statement federally without disrupting the state?
desmosthenes@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 217d
refuse to continue paying federal taxes
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 217d
Cut federal taxes and wipe your ass with interstate commerce rules. Pretty sure shit would change pretty damned quick if all trade stopped moving out of California.
I_Jedi@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 217d
Oh, that's easy. Stop doing what the feds tell you. No more federal taxes, and add in some nullification too. If other states like California, Illinois, and New York agree to help out of solidarity, threats of cut federal funding won't hit as hard.
The problem is avoiding the difficult situation of Trump sending in some guys to shoot some people and imprison the survivors.
Cyberflunk@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 217d
minorkeys@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 217d
How does negatively affecting businesses pressure Turmp and ICE?
chris@lemmy.grey.fail · 11 pts · 217d
A general strike is one of the only non-violent levers of power the people have.
It sucks. It probably won't do anything. But I'll take this over open war with ICE any day.
CileTheSane@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 216d
A lot of Trump's power comes from the support of the oligarchs. Shutting everything down hurts them, and shows class solidarity which scares the shit out of them.
RabbitBBQ@lemmy.world · -16 pts · 217d
It's easier to loot and destroy those businesses if they are empty because everyone is protesting?
Nebraska_Huskers@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 217d
Oof. Lost from r/conservative?
RabbitBBQ@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 217d
Bad joke
skozzii@lemmy.ca · -5 pts · 217d
Americans are pathetic, they aren't going to do a damn thing.
They couldn't even be bothered to get off their ass to vote.