Federal statement on Jeffrey Epstein's death dated day before he was found dead
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/statement-jeffrey-epstein-death-day-before-b1270109.html
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/statement-jeffrey-epstein-death-day-before-b1270109.html
91 Comments
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 188 pts · 199d
This is 1000x more likely to be a clerical error or time zone thing rather than a conspiracy.
takeda@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 72 pts · 199d
His body was supposedly discovered on August 10 at 6:30am. Which time zone are you suggesting?
Edit: also it says Friday, August 9, 2019 which is much harder to make a mistake.
I don't see the document in the article, here it is: https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%208/EFTA00013180.pdf
This looks like it was a draft. Here's the final version https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/statement-manhattan-us-attorney-death-defendant-jeffrey-epstein it is slightly modified and adds "of apparent suicide"
Occam's Razor says that explanation with fewest assumptions is likely the right one. With all the other coincidences that led to his death, his apparent suicide requires a lot of more assumptions.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 199d
Yeah, the Occam's razor answer definitely isn't that someone reused an existing document from the day before and forgot to change the date. That's just unbelievable. It's more likely that this was a premeditated murder and someone filed the paperwork a day early on accident.
takeda@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 38 pts · 199d
Yeah:
Each of them could be explained somehow through assumptions, but there are quite a lot of assumptions, don't you think?
I would imagine that in 21 century, FBI would have system to enter such notices and it would populate it with current date, because why would you want to modify date if you aren't doing anything shady?
BussyCat@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 199d
The questioning about this article is less about whether he did or did not kill himself but more so whether the date error is evidence he didn’t kill himself
Even if we were 100% sure he was murdered, why would some lowly typist know about it in advance and pre write a report. Like obviously the admin is incompetent and left so many glaring holes but why would they tell a non essential person?
At the end of the day it’s basically impossible that he actually killed himself of his own volition but to say that a date error is proof of that is incredibly flimsy
neatchee@piefed.social · 5 pts · 199d
it's also plausible that, if it were a murder and not a suicide, everything was prepared the day before but they couldn't go on time and had to wait a day.
there are a lot of possibilities. certainly a critical error is one of them. but if we're going to talk about plausible explanations that isn't the only one
Robust_Mirror@aussie.zone · 6 pts · 198d
Why though. Why would you prepare the document the day before? Why do you need to have it "ready to go"? There's literally no logical reason to premake such a document. It doesn't benefit the murder plan at all.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 198d
It absolutely 100% does make sense to do that.
It is called crafting a cover story.
Have you ever done something for one reason, but told people you did it for another reason?
Have you ever been in a scenario where you were considering whether or not you would do something like that, but realized you would need a convincing false narrative for other people first, before you considered actually doing the thing?
It very much benefits a group of people or an organization that is doing something like this, to get all their stories straight, before they proceed.
If your cover story works properly...
... no one will ever know, or at least not untill so much time has passed as to make being caught not really matter any more.
... This is just the logic of how all kinds of people and organizations who need to maintain one kind of outward public image or reputation, while actually doing things that do not match their outward appearance, how they act.
SLVRDRGN@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 198d
Did you just ask "why premeditate a murder?"
stephen01king@piefed.zip · 1 pts · 199d
I think he made a point that the date might be auto populated and one who generated it didn't notice or forgot about it.
BussyCat@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 198d
But again what possible advantage does it serve to pretype the report? And either you had to inform the clerk of your plan so they can write the report (why have more witnesses) or you had to bypass the clerk (why deviate from “business as usual)
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 198d
... Or, the message was not drawn up by some random lowly typist, and was drawn up by somebody in a much, much higher position.
Not sure if you've ever worked in any kind of large bureaucratic corporation of other kind of organization, but that happens all the time, when somebody wants to specifically handle something personally, and also have the plausible deniability of 'random clerk made error.'
The nature of bureaucracies is to a large extent that those best at establishing as many avenues of plausible deniability as possible, those who can set themselves up with the ability to throw other people under the bus... they tend to 'win', persist longer and get promoted higher in said bureacracy.
BussyCat@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 198d
Them writing the report especially in advance would take away their plausible deniability and just bring more attention to the scene
The report had no urgency to be done so having it done in advance especially considering in a murder details could have changed seems pointless
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 198d
... assuming that it can be determined conclusively that that happened.
Which, it often cannot be, in a bureaucratic system that normally has some kind of subordinate to do those things of things, but where sometimes the superior person just directly does it instead.
So ok, you clearly have not worked in a large bureaucratic organization before, or ... this would be very obvious to you.
This is just nonsensical.
The entire ... thing here is a statement that was released urgently.
The entire contention is that it may have been so urgent that it was actually pre-planned and drafted prior to the actual event.
You are just entirely dismissing this possibility, to prove that this possibility did not happen.
I am not saying 100% either way that it was a clerical error or a premeditated construction.
I don't know for certain either way.
But you are using very bad logic to argue that it was a clerical error.
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 198d
The first bullet point is infinitely more trivial than the others, and knowing way too much about document management and content management, I'm aware that it's common to make date errors in templated forms. That one doesn't meet the reasonable-doubt test.
The other bullet points, though... a lot of things about that situation stink to high heaven.
Don't get distracted by the small stuff. If you're wrong about it, bad actors will claim that that's proof that everything you're saying is wrong too.
takeda@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 198d
You have a valid point.
HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 199d
I think you mean coincidences not assumptions
takeda@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 198d
Occam's Razor talks about assumptions.
If we assume that the goal was to kill Epstein then all those events can be explained together with that one assumption.
If those were just coincidences, it means that those mere chances happening independently and for each of them we need to make a separate assumption (the cameras just happen to broke on that day, the backup ones maybe broke last week, but they didn't fix it, one of the guards who fell asleep celebrated his birthday until late and didn't sleep, the other one couldn't fall asleep last night because neighbor's dog was barking all night etc a lot of assumptions)
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 198d
You forgot the sleepwalking prison guards captured on camera.
0x0@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 198d
Why not both?
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 198d
... Why would there be a template or version of an existing document specifically dated to ... the previous day?
As opposed to ... just a blank date field?
You know, a template?
Did something else happen on the 9th, that required a document of this format to be drafted up?
Also... how often is such a template used, for a pretty uncommon, special statement to the general public, actually used?
Probably not very often.
Your argument is not very good.
You're layering in a bunch of assumptions, adding more complex conditions that would have to be met, you know, the opposite of doing Occam's Razor.
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 10 pts · 199d
Clerical error then
takeda@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 27 pts · 199d
Yeah, the cleric filled it too early. Didn't want to work on Saturday.
curbstickle@anarchist.nexus · 26 pts · 199d
Clerk, BTW.
A cleric is a member of the clergy (and typically the healer in an adventuring party)
deacon@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 199d
Hmm yes but surely clerk is just a descendant of cleric right? It’s almost a contraction
curbstickle@anarchist.nexus · 13 pts · 199d
It is actually!
Basically only the clergy could read and write, so they handled accounting and acted as scribes to nobles and the monarchy.
It split off like 600 years ago or so
Edit: a few extra words added in, I'm going to blame the keyboard/autocorrect just because I can.
hitmyspot@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 199d
Lots of words have unified origins. They diverge to allow 2 different concepts to be named. Calling someone a cleric still means something different to calling them a clerk.
However, a clerical error could be ambiguous. Likely as the term was less common, and so didn't have enough usage to warrant divergence.
frongt@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 199d
Yes, that would be more of an ecumenical error.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 199d
LAY ON HANDS!
curbstickle@anarchist.nexus · 5 pts · 199d
HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 199d
Venus Standard Time
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 199d
I was going to post the same thing. I cannot tell you the number of times I've misdated a document because I used a previous document as a template and forgot to check the date.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 198d
am i the only person who had the foresight to make blank templates? that autofilled the dates?
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 198d
I would say "you'd be surprised" but you evidently are also a corpo or ex corpo, so... no, you wouldn't be.
Yeah, most of your (ex)coworkers are in fact devious, petty, self-centered idiots.
Yep.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 198d
ex and ancillary, but yeah.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 198d
Well uh, as per my last email:
... sorry, lol.
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 198d
Keep flaunting your Office skills like that and you might just land yourself a job in middle management if you're not careful
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 198d
upper management, actually. it was not great.
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 198d
I get what you mean but we'd need a couple dozen templates and updating them would probably not be worth the time. I've gotten in the habit of highlighting everything that needs updating or verification on the first pass.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 198d
seriously i took a few hours for a week at the beginning of my career to write out basic forms that i could use over and over, that would autofill. shit that would take an hour or two a client if i did it by hand. is this just attorney stuff to pad out billable hours or does no one else think that far ahead?
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 198d
Scopes for all the projects are usually too different. I put together a checklist system instead.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 198d
really? what time zones did JEE fly across in his prison cell?
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 198d
The they also changed the cause of death after they found Epstein in his cell
SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zip · 174 pts · 199d
Fun fact: Anybody can type any date they want into Word. They could have dated it March 15, 44 B.C., since that string of characters isn't document meta-data. When I worked at a law firm, it was common to create a new document by opening an older file, editing it, and saving it as a new one. Quite possibly, the legal assistant edited an August 9th press release to create the draft, and forgot to change the date before saving. Further, this press release comes from the U.S. Attorney's office, which is a different location, with entirely different staff, from the corrections center. It would make exactly zero sense to get the U.S. Attorney, much less the legal assistants, in on a conspiracy. Keep the number of conspirators to a minimum; that's like Conspiracy 101.
There's are a lot of odd circumstances around his death, but as evidence of something fishy, this is super weak.
Evotech@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 199d
I agree. It’s not like they would leak that they would kill Epstein to the person drafting press releases…
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 198d
i'm trying to remember, wasn't Barr running the US Attorney's office? or was it just the bureau of prisons and the entire rest of the department of justice?
febra@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 198d
I personally don't know how the US government functions, but I know people that worked for various big insurance companies and they had a system in place with all the templates and things such as the date would be autofilled by it. I wouldn't expect the US government to just have a random folder with random templates that they pick and edit in Word.
SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zip · 2 pts · 198d
I know a guy who's an attorney, and he's worked for DoD, GSA, and SSA. That's just how they do it. That draft press release is very clearly a Word document, and while Word has templates and auto-update fields, well, lawyers are not tech people.
CannedYeet@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 198d
That's why I believe Bush did 9/11, but he kept it to himself. He didn't coordinate anything. He just pretended not to read the "Bin Laden determined to strike U.S." memo.
crystalmerchant@lemmy.world · 57 pts · 199d
Lmaooo as if anyone really doubted that he was killed... I mean come on people.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 12 pts · 199d
only the right wing msm was framing that way, so rebuplicans believe it. even his multiple assasination attempts were more than likely staged. its also a very PUTIN-LIKE MOVE, he stages false flags all the time to gian legitimacy, or a distraciton.
psivchaz@reddthat.com · 6 pts · 198d
The only thing that makes me hesitate on that one is.. Trump or the Clinton's or whoever could have had him assassinated in prison, I don't believe they would have gone through the added effort of keeping him alive. He's gonna have a hard time sourcing kids now so why bother? Certainly not because any of the list of suspects values friendship or loyalty
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 198d
I'll never understand the theory that Hillary Clinton - a woman who hadn't held political office in over three years, had nothing personally to lose by Epstein yapping, and had no material contacts in the current federal government - managed to get this job done.
But Trump, the sitting President, with an upcoming reelection fight where he was underwater in the polls and surrounded by Epstein associates, was the guy who stood beyond repute.
Given the number of people Epstein touched, and the rank incompetency of both Trump and Clinton, I'd sooner put my money down on Thiel or Gates or even Prince Andrew as the mastermind. But dropping Clinton and Trump into the same lineup? Come on. One of them definitely had a bit more leverage with the fucking NY Prison Bureau.
psivchaz@reddthat.com · -3 pts · 198d
Yeah it's pretty far down my list too but I think the theory goes that Hilary wanted him dead because if he ratted on Bill then it would hurt her election chances. Plausible enough as far as motives go. Still, I agree that Trump is the obvious choice.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 198d
In 2019? Hillary was well past her expiration date by then.
psivchaz@reddthat.com · 5 pts · 198d
Oh Lord it's all blurring together on me. You're right. I don't get the theory either then.
0x0@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 198d
He was about to blow the horn, he became a liability.
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 198d
It makes sense if he had a dead man's trigger set to release a ton of files if he doesn't refresh some timer every x days. Guessing that the x days after his arrest were approaching and he was obviously unwilling to trigger a refresh where they could see it.
I kinda suspect that his arrest might have been a part of the fascist takeover plan. Before that, it didn't take much imagination to realize that it was more of a mutual destruction thing. If they expose someone, there's a good chance they'll talk about everything they know, which at the very least is that Epstein was running a child sex ring.
But his arrest changed the equation. Everyone knows about the shit anyone might try to tell them in retaliation. The main instigator is apparently dead while the other big name is fucking president. Also, the protection is more active, stopping information from being released rather than releasing information. "Work with us, we will protect you. Don't and we'll just let whatever happens happen."
Rekorse@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 198d
He was an idiot, whoever has the files is out of view, likely some sort of government intelligence employees. They were collecting blackmail, just not sure who for or if they sold or traded it.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 49 pts · 198d
American Government under budget and ahead of schedule for the first time in living memory and y'all are out here complaining.
Incredible.
blarth@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 198d
patruelis@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 198d
I don't think they have any shame or fear of repercussions. At this stage, the law doesn't apply to them.
krzschlss@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 198d
Of course not and it never did, the law is written by them.
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 199d
Whoopsie
0x0@lemmy.zip · 22 pts · 198d
Damn conspiracy theorists... just because CCTV didn't have NTP enabled...
/sdemizerone@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 199d
Bill barr you fucking idiot. 😂
OldGrayDog@lemmynsfw.com · 21 pts · 199d
Assuming he is actually dead.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 199d
moved onto another epstein ilsand, possibly paid by mossad.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 198d
oh it's just a name. epstein island 2 is actually a peninsula
Lembot_0006@programming.dev · 17 pts · 199d
I too already have a long message about Putin's death.
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 199d
Yeah, can you get on with it please?
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 199d
Multiple drafts. However the document metadata is shite.
cutemarshmallow@europe.pub · 5 pts · 198d
Not that i'd ever want to talk to him, but I wonder what he thought of death given his wealth, power, and apparent obsession with eugenics, and the fact that he was facing life imprisonment. I wonder if he evee even thought about how long he wanted to live or how he would go.
MoreMagic@feddit.org · 2 pts · 197d
He either wanted to die, or at least was cool with it. A couple of weeks before his death there was a failed suicide attempt, or failed murder. Either way - during the interview after that event, Epstein was calm and smiling. He showed no distress what so ever.
LemmyKnowsBest@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 198d
amanneedsamaid@sopuli.xyz · 13 pts · 198d
Agree but the photo is bullshit, it was generated with Gemini.
pkjqpg1h@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 197d
LemmyKnowsBest@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 197d
Thanks for the source and straightening things out. But darn moderator deleted my whole comment. What even is the purpose of censorship 🤦🏼♀️ Moderators won't even trust us to be adults and have conversations and talk things out.
OriginEnergySux@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 198d
Even if it were true, i doubt JE would even have a small amount of power left. Everyone involved wants him to be the scapegoat and not them, so i would assume they would all want him dead, not alive and hiding somewhere
20cello@lemmy.world · -21 pts · 199d
Haters will say his suicide was staged
IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet@reddthat.com · 28 pts · 199d
Haters of what?
whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 199d
pedophiles?
Chozo@fedia.io · 3 pts · 198d
gr8 b8, m8