Saving Franz would not have stopped the war. Delayed, maybe, but he was just an excuse. Austria wanted to invade Serbia anyway, they would have found a different reason before too long.
Delaying it might have prevented it.
Current historians' consensus is that at no point before the war's outbreak was it inevitable, especially since the alliances tying the major powers together were all strictly non-binding.
In every involved country, pro-war and pacifist groups struggled for supremacy, and in each country, unfortunately at this point in time, the pro-war groups won.
But a few years later, the balance could have tipped.
Both in Russia and in Germany, leftist and democratic movements were on the rise even before the war.
If they had gained more support, a local conflict in the Balkans would not have escalated that far, keeping France out of it, and in turn, there would have been no reason for Britain and the USA to get involved at all.
I wasn't actually aware of that new consensus, I haven't looked too deeply at it for a few years. I'll have to take another look, that period of time is very interesting to me.
I do think it says something about society that the first thought is always "go back and kill..." Rather than "go back and prevent them from becoming the worst human on earth"
I think partially the assumption is that it's an in and out mission. Much harder to change someone's life for the better in the course of a day than be guaranteed to stop their part in evils to come. If you told me I had one day to convince Hitler to not do the holocaust or just kill him, I don't think I'd bet millions of lives on my skills of persuasion. Also, and this may be a bit doomer of me, but at a certain point people may never take to rehabilitation. I don't know that Stephen miller could ever change the person he is. I'm not saying we shouldn't try, but again, I wouldn't be millions of lives on it.
If you look at how the assassination of Francis Ferdinand went, it's almost like someone successfully sabotaged it, came back and saw the outcome, then went back and fixed it again.
Part of the reason hitler was never assassinated was that the allies wanted him alive so he could continue making terrible decisions. Like how the first trump regime was less effective than the current one, because trump was still making some decisions then.
Killing a single person does nothing to change the social conditions that gave them a valid path to power.
24 Comments
BeanGoblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 40 pts · 204d
Saving Franz would not have stopped the war. Delayed, maybe, but he was just an excuse. Austria wanted to invade Serbia anyway, they would have found a different reason before too long.
mech@feddit.org · 25 pts · 204d
Delaying it might have prevented it.
Current historians' consensus is that at no point before the war's outbreak was it inevitable, especially since the alliances tying the major powers together were all strictly non-binding.
In every involved country, pro-war and pacifist groups struggled for supremacy, and in each country, unfortunately at this point in time, the pro-war groups won.
But a few years later, the balance could have tipped.
Both in Russia and in Germany, leftist and democratic movements were on the rise even before the war.
If they had gained more support, a local conflict in the Balkans would not have escalated that far, keeping France out of it, and in turn, there would have been no reason for Britain and the USA to get involved at all.
BeanGoblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 204d
I wasn't actually aware of that new consensus, I haven't looked too deeply at it for a few years. I'll have to take another look, that period of time is very interesting to me.
bizarroland@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 204d
Its also possible that it would have still been a war, but not a world war, without an Assassination to anchor the sentiments to.
It might have been a conflict, lol.
CreamyJalapenoSauce@piefed.social · 22 pts · 204d
Let's save the library of Alexandria and just retry society from there and then
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 11 pts · 204d
Which fire do we save it from?
wattanao@fedia.io · 3 pts · 204d
How about we save some time and just install some sprinklers?
LemmingOnTheEdge@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 204d
I do think it says something about society that the first thought is always "go back and kill..." Rather than "go back and prevent them from becoming the worst human on earth"
MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com · 11 pts · 204d
I think partially the assumption is that it's an in and out mission. Much harder to change someone's life for the better in the course of a day than be guaranteed to stop their part in evils to come. If you told me I had one day to convince Hitler to not do the holocaust or just kill him, I don't think I'd bet millions of lives on my skills of persuasion. Also, and this may be a bit doomer of me, but at a certain point people may never take to rehabilitation. I don't know that Stephen miller could ever change the person he is. I'm not saying we shouldn't try, but again, I wouldn't be millions of lives on it.
Una@europe.pub · 13 pts · 204d
m4xie@lemmy.ca · 10 pts · 203d
If you look at how the assassination of Francis Ferdinand went, it's almost like someone successfully sabotaged it, came back and saw the outcome, then went back and fixed it again.
ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com · 9 pts · 204d
Prevent the unification of Germany 🤑🤑🤑
Sergio@piefed.social · 1 pts · 203d
Your best bet is to kill Bismarck, but it might have been one of those things that was inevitably going to happen.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 8 pts · 204d
Stop WW2 from happening by protecting Franz Ferdinand so WW1 never happens.
mech@feddit.org · 3 pts · 204d
Yeah I messed up the meme, that's who I meant.
Edited it now.
Hegar@fedia.io · 8 pts · 204d
Part of the reason hitler was never assassinated was that the allies wanted him alive so he could continue making terrible decisions. Like how the first trump regime was less effective than the current one, because trump was still making some decisions then.
Killing a single person does nothing to change the social conditions that gave them a valid path to power.
shifting9810@lemmy.mrpostman.ch · 11 pts · 204d
He was never successfully assassinated but there were definitely a lot of attempts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_attempts_on_Adolf_Hitler
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 203d
Only one of them planned by an allied official, and that in a personal capacity and told to abandon the scheme by his superiors.
PugJesus@piefed.social · 7 pts · 204d
Fuck/Marry/Kill but WW1
mech@feddit.org · 4 pts · 204d
Manfred Von Richthofen / Anyone not called Romanov / Gavrilo Princip
Fredselfish@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 203d
My novel touches on this. I thought it was a neat idea to prevent the assassination. What would of happened if WWI was prevented.
standarduser@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 204d
Let’s shoot franz Ferdinand twice
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 203d
alternate time line paradox if hitler dies, would else could be unleashed instead.
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 203d
Alternative timeline Hitler: history's first lolcow thanks to never gaining any power.
BeanGoblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 204d