Israel has a right to exist in it's original borders. So has Palatine. Israeli genocide by their political elite must be stopped. We need a blue helmet peace mission to separate both groups back into their homes and rebuild. They need long term help to get off their religious bullshit and learn to be good neighbors.

Having a law criminalizing a radical opinion is not in the interest of free speech and should have no place in Germany nor any place. You have the right to be stupid, I draw the line at violence. As should the law.

Omodi@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 124d (1 reply)

States don't have rights people have rights.

Nomad@infosec.pub · 3 pts · 124d

I tend to agree on a technicality. But the state is formed and represented by its it's people. Therefore there is a right to exist that's derived from the peoples right to exist as well as a right to defend themselves that derives from it's peoples right to safety. Let's just say Israel has gone somewhat overboard and the US is somewhat stoking that fire for religious and political reasons and that needs to stop.

Aqarius@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 124d

Palatine

I have a feeling Germany isn't gonna approve of that one either. Especially since that's where the nukes are.

Sualtam@lemmus.org · 0 pts · 122d (4 replies)

Words incite violence. Every genocide starts with rethoric. We have t8 curtail speech. Everything else is 18th century naivité.

Nomad@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 122d (3 replies)

Discussion is healthy and being able to speak to people about their opinion is the only way to potentially change it. That's hard to do it their opinion is illegal. Which is why freedom of speech is so important.

You are speaking about fighting propaganda, which is another thing entirely.

Sualtam@lemmus.org · 0 pts · 121d (2 replies)

That's a naive take. The right to life, health and a peace for million of people is paramount to some hateful bigots right to free speech.

Human rights can conflict with eachother. We have to make a choice.

Nomad@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 121d (1 reply)

I'll make an example you might understand: I'll block you now, see how you feel not being able to spill your fascist tea. ;)

Sualtam@lemmus.org · 1 pts · 121d

Thank you for not wasting my time.

greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 0 pts · 124d

Israel has a right to exist in it’s original borders

Lebensraum.

No it doesn't.

Akasazh@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 124d

They have unequivocally proberen that they cannot live in the middle east without starting shit. Maybe the Madagascar plan wasn't too bad an idea?

possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 124d (3 replies)

It isn't a law yet luckily

I do wonder how this is even being considered. Do Germans not have legally protected free speech?

chaitae3@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 124d (2 replies)

Yes we do, that doesn't prevent conservatives and nazis from saying stuff like that. They're shifting the Overton window.

desertdruid@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 0 pts · 124d (1 reply)

like that

like what? ‘from the river to the sea’?

chaitae3@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 124d

I meant like proposing to criminalise something that is obviously guaranteed by the constitution. They do that all the time.

Count042@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 124d (3 replies)

One of the founding principles in the Declaration of Independence is that no State has the right to exist without the consent of all people 'governed' within that States area of control.

Any American stating that Israel has a right to exist or demanding that others state that Israel has a right to exist are unAmerican. And being unAmerican in defense of a foreign State.

Fucking traitorous scum.

possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 124d (1 reply)

This is German

Count042@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 124d

So what?

The use of the question: Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?

is a propaganda point universally used as a gotcha against critics of Israel.

Furthermore, while the view that States have no right to exist without the full consent of all of the governed is a (hypocritically held) American view, it is a universal one held by anyone who believes apartheid is wrong.

village604@adultswim.fan · 4 pts · 124d

I think you missed the first word of the title

Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.org · 2 pts · 125d (4 replies)

Israel has as much right to exist as any other state.

Tiresia@slrpnk.net · 6 pts · 124d (1 reply)

Much as I hate states, a democratic state that proportionally represents all people in its territory has more right to exist than other states. Palesinians can't vote so Israel has less right to exist than some other states.

Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.org · 4 pts · 124d

Democracy doesn't need a state. If you hate states, then you shouldn't defend them tbh. They are inherently anti-democratic in the way they arbitrarily decide who is and isn't part of the represented group (e.g. by borders)

possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 124d (1 reply)

I don't disagree but I think you are missing the point.

It shouldn't be legal to say Israel doesn't have a right to exist. People should be allowed to voice an option freely without fear of harm.

Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.org · 2 pts · 124d

Yeah and historic context is important. In Germany it is also illegal to say that the Holocaust didn't happen and that's a good thing.

DaMummy@hilariouschaos.com · 1 pts · 124d

Maybe the German government thinks it's important for Jews to see how easy it is to fall for a Reichstag fire event.