I'm playing something of a devil's advocate here, but I think there's a case to be made that the three new pipelines announced recently could end up being a good thing--for the environment!
I'm playing something of a devil's advocate here, but I think there's a case to be made that the three new pipelines announced recently could end up being a good thing--for the environment!
18 Comments
BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca · 10 pts · 56d
No, this is an economic and political argument not an environmental one.
The less oil removed from the ground the better.
We're talking about carbon capture and storage technologies while we could just NOT PUMP THE OIL and have the same effect with 0 effort.
"Someone else will do it" Sure, but also, they will run out faster and then... Less total carbon will have been released.
CloudwalkingOwl@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 56d
I don't see how we can remove economics and politics from environmental policy. We're not talking about climate science, we're talking about what human beings are doing to the environment. And everything we do isn't a question of doing the best thing possible---it's about doing the best thing that the citizens and the 'players' will let you do.
I've argued for 'leave it in the ground' most of my life. I was pretty successful in that I got people elected and build a large body of people working together. But the fact was both inside that organization and among the general public the vast majority weren't going to buy a simple 'leave it in the ground' strategy.
kbal@fedia.io · 7 pts · 56d
Well then, the vast majority are in the wrong. It happens sometimes. This is one of those times. It does not mean you should join them.
BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 56d
From the posting comment:
There ARE economic and political reasons why they could be good, but building more pipelines will NOT be good for the environment.
danielquinn@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 56d
The facts don't care about the feelings of the electorate, let alone that of shareholders.
Rentlar@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 56d
Good on you for making the supportive case, though it's apparent many Lemmings aren't happy with it and I also respectfully disagree. Conceptually, there is a case for building any of the 3 projects as you've laid out. However:
Heck, as a BC taxpayer I'd be fine if part of my federal tax bill helped fund and quickly build the high speed rail project that starts and ends in Alberta. Premier Smith seemed to like trains, and it would be a real sign that the federation can all help each other get things done sometimes, more than just rhetorically, and not just for Ontario and Quebec.
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 56d
Neoliberalism died awhile ago and has been replaced by Leveragism.
Your argument is simply we should get ours while we can. This will be at the cost of the environment and give money to people who will likely embezzle it through corruption.
undefined@lemmy.hogru.ch · 3 pts · 56d
Do you have any source other than a random Substack?
Rentlar@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 56d
The Lemmy user posting this is supposedly the author of this Substack article.
DriftingLynx@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 56d
Does anyone else see irony in this pipeline east proposal having an Albertan Premier smiling about it?
It's the thing Trudeau Sr tried to build that Alberta threw it's NEP hissy fit over. Then was used to villify Ottawa for decades.
Like Alberta would already have this pipeline if they hadn't jammed a stick in their own spokes 🙄
CloudwalkingOwl@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 56d
Thanks for pointing this out. I didn't realize that a pipeline was part of the NEP---although it's obvious once you think about it.
MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca · 1 pts · 56d
This is really well written but I'm not entirely sure folks will actually read it.
Especially in a very progressive echo chamber like the Fediverse, the notion that the Conservatives may win power, hold it and do some pretty fantastically devastating things doesn't seem to register. Similarly, the very real environmental costs of being tied to the United States don't seem to factor.
villasv@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 56d
isn't this literally the top worry on everyone's mind in here?
MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca · 1 pts · 55d
For the amount of "Carney is just Poilievre 2.0" and other nonsense I see, it doesn't seem so in a meaningful sense.
villasv@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 56d
Pardon my ignorance but don't we already have a pipeline that covers the benefits alleged for the second pipeline?
Maybe my memory fails me but doesn't the existing trans mountain pipeline already connects to the Burnaby port where it can be shipped overseas? Is the point that the current pipeline flow to Asia is at capacity and is limiting our capacity to shift away from US exports?
CloudwalkingOwl@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 56d
That's my understanding. Although if you read you hear lots of conflicting things. I try to restrict myself to good news sources like the CBC, government websites, peer-reviewed articles, etc.
villasv@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 56d
I see. I don't have a good source to tell me at a glance if the existing pipeline really is the bottleneck for market diversification at this point. It's plausible. If that's the case, then I agree it's a positive; though I can't also comfortably say it's net positive yet
CloudwalkingOwl@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 56d
Since something like 96% of Canadian oil was sold to the USA in 2024 (I posted a chart that says this in the article), I'd be really surprised that there was enough bandwidth in the pipeline to really pull a lot of oil out of the American market and switch it to China and Europe. And don't forget I was saying that these pipelines probably won't make strict market sense. They aren't meant to be about making money for shareholders so much as to build resilience and independence for both ourselves and our allies in other countries. That's part of what I meant when I talked about the end of the neo-liberal consensus.