Yes a lot of how we see satan in iconography or whatever came out of the renaissance, but the idea of a place of torture in the afterlife has its roots in Greek mythology. (Specifically, Tartarus,)
That said, Jesus definitely conceived of a place of eternal torture for people who didn’t agree that he was all that.
Hell is absolutely biblical, in the new testament. For example it's discussed in Matthew and second Peter. It's not a thing in the Hebrew bible. Dante's hell is not biblical in the least.
Where? The only one I can think of is Jesus saying there's a place where there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, which could easily be the DMV or the Internet
He speaks of Gehenna (geennē, γέεννα in Greek). Properly "The Valley of The Sons of Hinnom", a place (according to the BDAG) where the final judgment was to take place and the unbelievers would be thrown into the lake of fire.
Every instance of the word “hell” in an English bible comes from a completely different word in the Hebrew and Greek, ones with meanings like “the grave.” Jesus does spin a parable about Hades once. The same Hades portrayed the Disney cartoon Hercules. It is still not “hell,” though.
Yes, "Hell" in the Hebrew bible is Sheol, which is more like "the grave" or "underworld", though the HALOT notes the root is uncertain.
Gehenna, though, as seen in Matthew, is the place where the final judgment was supposed to occur and the unbelievers would be thrown into the lake of fire.
Gehenna — Valley of Hinnom — is a real-world place. At the time of Jesus, it had a horrifying reputation as a place of human child sacrifice to pagan gods. A place of death and evil shunned by YHWH.
Didn't Jeremiah have something about a lake of fire or something or was that just the desolation supposed to follow Jerusalem, I am not the best bibblical scholar I just start cults for fun
Most of what christians mentally picture their afterlife to be was written by a 14th century Italian mad-lad with a chip on his sholder and an axe to grind with multiple popes. Its all sorta blended together these days.
Ill give the other abrahamic cults credit for their attenpts at maintaining a faithful translation or opting to not officially do one at all. Makes keeping track of who believes what easier.
Well, I always tell missionaries knocking on my door: you are telling me that I could be a murderer, a liar, a thief, an adulterer, an overall horrible person, so long as I sincerely repent before I die and accept Jesus into my heart, and I will go to heaven? How is that more moral than being an atheist who is an overall good person?
My grandfather, atheist for all my life, always invited the missionaries in to talk. When I asked him why he said they are good helpers and you just have to act like you are curious about what they want to say and they will do all your chores while they tell you about Jesus.
Being called "edgy" is funny when they tell you that there's this horrible pit of emoness and death and fire and hot metal chains and trenchcoats and darkness and satan that you're going to go to.
Yeah, I hear gluttony and making good food also drugs usings, which are cinnamon rolls, are also bird sins. And Christmad God is either a transgender bird or a gay whale, if I read my Bibble right WHICH I DON'T I want to make that clear right from the start this time. So why would I not want to go where OH THEIR GOD sent his most reliable servant to take care of tastiness?
I like asking which heaven or hell? Mormons have this thing called eternal darkness or some shit and you need to be really bad to go there. But they also have 3 heavens, with the bottom class heaven for heathens like me.
I kind of hope it’s like a resturant. Yes, i’ll have the Heaven of the day, hold the damniation. Yes, yes, i’ll take an order of angel wings and a harp. No, lets save and get just silver, no need to be flashy.
Or better yet, which heaven did the Christians go to? I’ll take the other heaven please.
Still doesn't make sense. Christians believe in hell; neither Christians nor atheists believe in Mordor. It doesn't make sense as an analogy and I don't find it funny. Also, it's only wooosh if OP intended it as a joke (would still be a bad joke). Are you OP?
Telling someone they'll end up somewhere they don't believe exists is as effective as telling someone they'll end up somewhere they don't believe exists. Does the pairity seem more obvious from this angle?
Fwiw, that was the first thought I had too! Really funny that everyone is all uptight about a comment they thought was being uptight but began with "akshully". Unless people do believe in mordor, perhaps they do. Ha.
The downvotes somewhat surprised me. I had expected an atheism community would attract more critical thinkers who'd immediately spot and point out the logical fallacy. But, oh well, it's still just the interwebs and its fake points 🤷
53 Comments
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 55 pts · 31d
As a recovering Catholic, it is doubly funny because hell is not even biblical.
MrSelfDestruct@piefed.zip · 20 pts · 31d
The renaissance period is responsible for hell and the visualization of Satan.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 31d
It was more the Greeks.
Yes a lot of how we see satan in iconography or whatever came out of the renaissance, but the idea of a place of torture in the afterlife has its roots in Greek mythology. (Specifically, Tartarus,)
That said, Jesus definitely conceived of a place of eternal torture for people who didn’t agree that he was all that.
GutterRat42@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 31d
How many cats did you have to make you finally realize you were Catholic? Did you have to rehab and give all the cats away?
mechoman444@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 30d
Ah! I see you've read the Bible and like most people it led you straight to atheism!
HostilePasta@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 31d
Hell is absolutely biblical, in the new testament. For example it's discussed in Matthew and second Peter. It's not a thing in the Hebrew bible. Dante's hell is not biblical in the least.
btsax@reddthat.com · 17 pts · 31d
Where? The only one I can think of is Jesus saying there's a place where there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, which could easily be the DMV or the Internet
HostilePasta@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 29d
He speaks of Gehenna (geennē, γέεννα in Greek). Properly "The Valley of The Sons of Hinnom", a place (according to the BDAG) where the final judgment was to take place and the unbelievers would be thrown into the lake of fire.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 31d
Every instance of the word “hell” in an English bible comes from a completely different word in the Hebrew and Greek, ones with meanings like “the grave.” Jesus does spin a parable about Hades once. The same Hades portrayed the Disney cartoon Hercules. It is still not “hell,” though.
HostilePasta@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 29d
Yes, "Hell" in the Hebrew bible is Sheol, which is more like "the grave" or "underworld", though the HALOT notes the root is uncertain.
Gehenna, though, as seen in Matthew, is the place where the final judgment was supposed to occur and the unbelievers would be thrown into the lake of fire.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 29d
Gehenna — Valley of Hinnom — is a real-world place. At the time of Jesus, it had a horrifying reputation as a place of human child sacrifice to pagan gods. A place of death and evil shunned by YHWH.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 30d
Didn't Jeremiah have something about a lake of fire or something or was that just the desolation supposed to follow Jerusalem, I am not the best bibblical scholar I just start cults for fun
Bahnd@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 30d
Most of what christians mentally picture their afterlife to be was written by a 14th century Italian mad-lad with a chip on his sholder and an axe to grind with multiple popes. Its all sorta blended together these days.
Ill give the other abrahamic cults credit for their attenpts at maintaining a faithful translation or opting to not officially do one at all. Makes keeping track of who believes what easier.
GutterRat42@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 31d
Well, I always tell missionaries knocking on my door: you are telling me that I could be a murderer, a liar, a thief, an adulterer, an overall horrible person, so long as I sincerely repent before I die and accept Jesus into my heart, and I will go to heaven? How is that more moral than being an atheist who is an overall good person?
CallMeAl@piefed.zip · 9 pts · 30d
My grandfather, atheist for all my life, always invited the missionaries in to talk. When I asked him why he said they are good helpers and you just have to act like you are curious about what they want to say and they will do all your chores while they tell you about Jesus.
GutterRat42@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 30d
What!? The ones visiting me expected coffee and cookies
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 30d
Yeah coffee and cookies is way cheaper than fifteen an hour
GutterRat42@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 29d
To serve men is a cookbook
Quasit@beige.party · 2 pts · 29d
@GutterRat42 @HeyThisIsntTheYMCA
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 29d
GutterRat42@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 28d
Twilight Zone did it first
5715@feddit.org · 14 pts · 31d
jve@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 31d
Seems nice.
WappleFF27@feddit.online · 13 pts · 31d
Being called "edgy" is funny when they tell you that there's this horrible pit of emoness and death and fire and hot metal chains and trenchcoats and darkness and satan that you're going to go to.
Sounds pretty edgy, bro.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 30d
How many Satans
WappleFF27@feddit.online · 3 pts · 30d
Tree fiddy
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 30d
Are the Satans cute?
Tabula_stercore@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 31d
*isengard!
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 30d
All us musicians have been responding "hell? Oh goody! That means we finally don't have to do church music" for the last two thousand millennia
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 30d
Yeah, why wouldn't I want to go where all the cool people are. We'll make it work.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 30d
Yeah, I hear gluttony and making good food also drugs usings, which are cinnamon rolls, are also bird sins. And Christmad God is either a transgender bird or a gay whale, if I read my Bibble right WHICH I DON'T I want to make that clear right from the start this time. So why would I not want to go where OH THEIR GOD sent his most reliable servant to take care of tastiness?
BurnedDonutHole@ani.social · 4 pts · 30d
I always say we'll see won't we and they look at me like cussed their mother.
Stupidmanager@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 30d
I like asking which heaven or hell? Mormons have this thing called eternal darkness or some shit and you need to be really bad to go there. But they also have 3 heavens, with the bottom class heaven for heathens like me.
I kind of hope it’s like a resturant. Yes, i’ll have the Heaven of the day, hold the damniation. Yes, yes, i’ll take an order of angel wings and a harp. No, lets save and get just silver, no need to be flashy.
Or better yet, which heaven did the Christians go to? I’ll take the other heaven please.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 30d
"Personally, I think you've got it backwards. I'm going to heaven. You're going to hell. Agree to disagree!"
MidsizedSedan@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 30d
I would GLADLY go to Mordor. Sure its dark and stinky, but theres a chance I get to see Rivendell and Hobbiton...
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 30d
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 30d
Buddy, this is Eh- eeeh- double Hockey stick, pal!
All you're going to see is Minas Morgul and Shelob's Lair!
TheTechnician27@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 31d
You're making things up again, Arnold!
homura1650@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 30d
mechoman444@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 30d
Certainty lends no truth to folly. An absurd claim may be answered with an absurd dismissal.
_cnt0@sh.itjust.works · -8 pts · 31d
Akshully ... it's more like telling them that they'll just seize to exist, neither going to heaven nor hell, nor anything before or in between.
I mean, I like Lord of the Rings, but I don't believe in it. I know it is existing fiction, just like any "holy" text.
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 31d
Whooooooooosh
Hell -> fake place atheists don't believe in
Mordor -> fake place christians don't believe in
_cnt0@sh.itjust.works · -9 pts · 31d
Still doesn't make sense. Christians believe in hell; neither Christians nor atheists believe in Mordor. It doesn't make sense as an analogy and I don't find it funny. Also, it's only wooosh if OP intended it as a joke (would still be a bad joke). Are you OP?
Sidhean@piefed.social · 6 pts · 30d
Look out, we got the joke police over here :3
Telling someone they'll end up somewhere they don't believe exists is as effective as telling someone they'll end up somewhere they don't believe exists. Does the pairity seem more obvious from this angle?
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 30d
WIIUWIIUWIIU
Who called for the joke police. You got a loicence for that joike
_cnt0@sh.itjust.works · -5 pts · 30d
The word 'like' is semantically wrong here.
No it fucking isn't.
Yeah, if your humor is a potato.
Sidhean@piefed.social · 4 pts · 30d
_cnt0@sh.itjust.works · -3 pts · 30d
I didn't say it's confusing, I said it doesn't make sense.
NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 30d
What a stupid fucking hill to choose to die on.
_cnt0@sh.itjust.works · -4 pts · 30d
What a great contribution to the thread.
slackassassin@piefed.social · 2 pts · 29d
Fwiw, that was the first thought I had too! Really funny that everyone is all uptight about a comment they thought was being uptight but began with "akshully". Unless people do believe in mordor, perhaps they do. Ha.
_cnt0@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 29d
The downvotes somewhat surprised me. I had expected an atheism community would attract more critical thinkers who'd immediately spot and point out the logical fallacy. But, oh well, it's still just the interwebs and its fake points 🤷