The guy has been trying for literal decades. He hasn't wavered from that mission or sold out somehow AFAIK. It must take an enormous amount of willpower to even continue in the face of such overwhelming odds. Don't think it's entirely fair to put this blame on him.
I'm not blaming him at all for this? I'm glad he's taking this stand.
I'm saying he's been ineffective (and also outright disappointing, like his pro-Zionist stance) in bringing about any kind of useful change because the establishment keeps him (and AOC, and probably eventually Zohran Mamdani too, as much as I'm loath to admit it) around as a sort of controlled opposition/progressive figurehead to show that they're not all that bad when they absolutely in fact are just the other side of the same coin.
Isn't the pro-Zionist thing part of the framing as well? As far as I remember he started saying many years ago, the US shouldn't give a nickel to Israel. And he called out the war, Netanyahu, all the woman and children dying...?
he started saying many years ago, the US shouldn’t give a nickel to Israel. And he called out the war, Netanyahu, all the woman and children dying…?
None of that is relevant when he keeps qualifying it with "but Israel has the right to defend itself" -- no it fucking doesn't. Israel doesn't even have the right to exist. It's just a colonial outpost on stolen Palestinian land.
Yes, certainly a bit weird. But the way he talks and acts, I strongly doubt that's his opinion. Dunno why people give it as much importance. But it's basically saying he (or anyone) thinks there's a "but" to genocide.
Yes, it's genocide, but ....
is a really stupid opinion. And you can't draw any conclusions from that. Somehow I believe he's smarter than that. I mean I can't back it up, it's mostly my opinion, but come on... he isn't that stupid or sells out to dictators that frequently? Also the article claims it's been 2 years before the atrocities. But I can find news articles scolding him in 2017 already for saying the US is complicit in what happens in the West Bank and Gaza... and something should be done about it. Back then it was reallocate (at least some of) the money that goes towards Israel and give it to the people in Gaza (as humanitarian aid).
But the way he talks and acts, I strongly doubt that’s his opinion
Then why is he constantly spouting it in public where everyone can hear him and be convinced that yes, that is his opinion that the Palestinians wouldn't be genocided if they just rolled over and let Israel take everything from them
And you can’t draw any conclusions from that.
Course you can. The conclusion is that he's a Zionist.
and something should be done about it. Back then it was reallocate the money that goes towards Israel and give it to the people in Gaza (as humanitarian aid)
The thing that should be done about it is to call for the dissolution and revocation of recognition for the Zionist identity. He's not doing that, he's not coming even close to that or to expressing his support for the Palestinian people to have control over (all of) their own land. Lip service is what he's doing to maintain the illusion that he's "leftist", and lip service doesn't do a damn thing.
Do you (or someone) happen to have a source/link for me with some of his own words in it? I mean I'm not from the US, maybe I'm missing part of the picture. I'd still like to read up on it though. Most I ever read is some third parties claiming he sure must be XY. But I kinda need to see it come from him, either by his words or actions, and judge by myself, in order to change my mind.
Here he is claiming that a one-state solution would mean the end of Israel, and he supports Israel
Here he is saying that Hamas "terrorists" "attacked Israel" and repeating the "Israel has the right to defend itself" talking point
Here he is vowing to continue to support "defensive arms" shipments to Israel, a class of weapon he continued to very conveniently leave out of his whitewashing attempts to reduce arms sales to Israel later
Bernie Sanders also voted to confirm notorious right-winger and staunch pro-Israel Republican Marco Rubio as the US Secretary of State.
13 Comments
Kyrgizion@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 9d
The guy has been trying for literal decades. He hasn't wavered from that mission or sold out somehow AFAIK. It must take an enormous amount of willpower to even continue in the face of such overwhelming odds. Don't think it's entirely fair to put this blame on him.
destructdisc@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 9d
I'm not blaming him at all for this? I'm glad he's taking this stand.
I'm saying he's been ineffective (and also outright disappointing, like his pro-Zionist stance) in bringing about any kind of useful change because the establishment keeps him (and AOC, and probably eventually Zohran Mamdani too, as much as I'm loath to admit it) around as a sort of controlled opposition/progressive figurehead to show that they're not all that bad when they absolutely in fact are just the other side of the same coin.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de · 9 pts · 9d
Isn't the pro-Zionist thing part of the framing as well? As far as I remember he started saying many years ago, the US shouldn't give a nickel to Israel. And he called out the war, Netanyahu, all the woman and children dying...?
destructdisc@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 9d
None of that is relevant when he keeps qualifying it with "but Israel has the right to defend itself" -- no it fucking doesn't. Israel doesn't even have the right to exist. It's just a colonial outpost on stolen Palestinian land.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de · 1 pts · 9d
Yes, certainly a bit weird. But the way he talks and acts, I strongly doubt that's his opinion. Dunno why people give it as much importance. But it's basically saying he (or anyone) thinks there's a "but" to genocide.
Yes, it's genocide, but ....
is a really stupid opinion. And you can't draw any conclusions from that. Somehow I believe he's smarter than that. I mean I can't back it up, it's mostly my opinion, but come on... he isn't that stupid or sells out to dictators that frequently? Also the article claims it's been 2 years before the atrocities. But I can find news articles scolding him in 2017 already for saying the US is complicit in what happens in the West Bank and Gaza... and something should be done about it. Back then it was reallocate (at least some of) the money that goes towards Israel and give it to the people in Gaza (as humanitarian aid).
Somehow none of this aligns.
destructdisc@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 9d
Then why is he constantly spouting it in public where everyone can hear him and be convinced that yes, that is his opinion that the Palestinians wouldn't be genocided if they just rolled over and let Israel take everything from them
Course you can. The conclusion is that he's a Zionist.
The thing that should be done about it is to call for the dissolution and revocation of recognition for the Zionist identity. He's not doing that, he's not coming even close to that or to expressing his support for the Palestinian people to have control over (all of) their own land. Lip service is what he's doing to maintain the illusion that he's "leftist", and lip service doesn't do a damn thing.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de · 1 pts · 9d
Do you (or someone) happen to have a source/link for me with some of his own words in it? I mean I'm not from the US, maybe I'm missing part of the picture. I'd still like to read up on it though. Most I ever read is some third parties claiming he sure must be XY. But I kinda need to see it come from him, either by his words or actions, and judge by myself, in order to change my mind.
destructdisc@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 9d
Straight from the horse's mouth:
Here he is claiming that a one-state solution would mean the end of Israel, and he supports Israel
Here he is saying that Hamas "terrorists" "attacked Israel" and repeating the "Israel has the right to defend itself" talking point
Here he is vowing to continue to support "defensive arms" shipments to Israel, a class of weapon he continued to very conveniently leave out of his whitewashing attempts to reduce arms sales to Israel later
Bernie Sanders also voted to confirm notorious right-winger and staunch pro-Israel Republican Marco Rubio as the US Secretary of State.
dumnezero@piefed.social · 7 pts · 9d
"Pause" is compromise. Literally Scam Altman: OpenAI pauses AI training over safety concerns | Cybernews
myrmidex@belgae.social · 5 pts · 9d
seems like an imperialist mission, or does he plan to upgrade the power of the UN?
eleijeep@piefed.social · 2 pts · 9d
Was this tweet written by an LLM?