Nazi sympathizer sympathizers don't like being reminded they sympathize with Nazi sympathizers. They're finally realizing that denying plainly objective facts outright makes them look even more ridiculous, so they just seethe and downvote while repeating "rUzZiAn pRoPaGaNda!" over and over to themselves until the sensation of cognitive dissonance fades.
They were very clearly not making any equivalency let alone a false equivalency. They were using an example that we all would agree on as a demonstration. This is a rhetorical device and a perfectly valid, frequently used one at that. But the fact that you and apparently a couple others are trying to make it out as if they were saying "r*** is the same thing as protesting" is disgusting and revealing of your own motives.
"Tankies" are people who actually understand how imperialism and hegemony work. They are able to look past their prejudices using material analysis to recognize who perpetrates imperialism vs those who are victimized by it and struggles against it. "Tankies" stand in support of the latter. Whereas People who use "tankies" as a pejorative (sometimes now called dronies) are those who have failed to sift out from the deluge of propaganda (that we are all saturated by) those specific lies that they want to believe in. They remain ignorant, usually willfully, because it is easier and oftentimes beneficial to them to believe that, for instance, the groups of people their government tells them are evil and "authoritarian" really are evil and "authoritarian."
While it is ultimately a failure of understanding how the world actually works that the drony suffers from, it is often rooted in a failure of self reflection, the refusal to recognize their prejudices, biases, and the material reasons behind their wilful ignorance. So of course the dronies hate people who are willing to hold up a mirror and then look out and see the world as it is, because those people are a reminder and representation of all the things the dronies in their cowardice refuse to look at. Hence we get frothing know-nothings who think they're leftists whinging and even raging about those terrible "tankies."
Blanketing all Ukranians under a Nazi label is disingenuous, as OP insinuates.
No one blanketed all Ukrainians, all of us who recognize the accuracy of the OP image well know the Ukrainians of Donbas have been valiantly fighting since 2014 against the nazi regime in Kiev that openly hang their yellow and blue flag right next to swastika flags. But just because it's obviously true that not all Ukrainians are nazis, that doesnt mean there isn't a deep and systemic problem of naziism in western Ukrainian culture with large swathes of the population worshipping nazis like Bandera, or that the Ukrainian military isn't largely composed of literal nazi militias.
Put all the Nazis in the trash.
Agreed. (Better yet a pit). Though I hope you realize if we were able to do that, then the entirety of the forces fighting against Russia would instantly collapsewand the Zelenky's regime would cease to be.
Get downvotwd for it
Oh no! Not the fake internet points down-spammed by NATO bots!
Cringe.
Oh and here are some of the countless examples of the Ukrainian flag and Swastikas (or other symbolism) actually superimposed on or paired with each other, as proudly displayed by openly fascist Ukrainians:
It's funny because a large percentage of Ukraine's military leadership, if not the majority, would (and do) proudly and openly display their national flag right next to the swastika, or even one superimposed on the other*, but their western sycophants will all swear up and down how that's just an evil smear that Putler-Voldemort tries to spread in a desperate attempt to keep their heads safely buried in the sand. I will always laugh at how much western libs will give themselves aneurysms trying to deny it when you point out the straightforward and readily evident reality that Ukraine is a Nazi state, meanwhile everyone in the Ukrainian military with rank higher than private (and plenty of privates too) are like "hey check out my new totenkopf tattoo, it matches the swastika I've had on the other arm for years! Seig heil!"
It’s already widely used as a genderless term though
It's not, though. You will never hear someone calling a man a "fangirl" unless the person saying it is a misogynist trying to insult that man's masculinity. Adding a "-girl" or "-boy" onto any word is not "gender neutral" it is literally the opposite of gender neutral and saying that it is is ridiculous at least and possibly disingenuous.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding the term - isn’t this exactly what you’re doing right now?
I think you are misunderstanding how human interaction works. No, it is not what I am doing, responding to someone who is using excessive pedantry (and still reaching false conclusions) necessitates addressing the pedantic points they used, but doing so is very obviously not also being pedantic. You really do seem to have a strange difficulty with recognizing how things that may have aspects that are in parity with each other are not therefore intrinsically the exact same thing as each other.
It's not a lie, it's an easily demonstrable fact. But the meme that you are whining and pissing yourself about says nothing about the fact that Ukraine is a Nazi state (which it is). All it says is that there is a common double standard to what many people (presumably western liberals) think what constitutes a "war crime" vs an "unfortunate but necessary" act depending on whether that act was performed by one of the US's enemies or by the US and its ally regimes. You are just looking for something to throw a fit about.
Yes, and I believe it because I have been following what has been happening in Ukraine since well before February of 2022. The fact that you are unaware of this fact (even one recognized by western media before the SMO) is what is yikes. Thanks to u/freagle for providing some of the mountains of evidence demonstrating beyond all doubt that the Kiev regime is literally a Nazi regime, the most openly Nazi state regime in the world, in fact.
This isn't use of a gendered term in a vacuum. Sure, "Fangirl" is not necessarily a bad thing to call someone in appropriate context, but as always, context makes all the difference. In the context here, the person who used the term is clearly using "fan-x" to be a negative thing. Completely removing gender from the equation, they clearly think it is both wrong and disgusting that someone be a "fan" of Russia. Even without gender, the "fanboy" or "fangirl" term as it is being used here is dripping with condescension and disdain. The fact that they specifically added "girl" to it while having no indication of the actual gender of the person they were referring to is not just some innocent "oh hey let's be equitable this might be someone who has feminine gender expression." They added the "girl" on as a way to add more disparagement to the term they were already using as an insult. That is misogyny.
This isn't hard, and the presence of misogyny should be obvious to anyone, even if they might be hard pressed to pick it apart and explain why. That you are going into this pedantic redditor debate pervert defense of it really brings your own motive into question.
It’s definitely pro-Russian, but what is the lie?
I don't think it is. Not the meme anyway. u/jankforlife may be pro-Russian (which is the correct stance for any anti-imperialist to take) and post other memes that are pro-Russian, but this particular meme is neutral as to whether Russia is a positive or negative force in geopolitics. It's just pointing out the double standard of western liberals. But yes, you are of course correct that there are no "lies" being repeated here, this piefed bootlicker is just throwing a tantrum about seeing a meme where Russia isn't explicitly being compared to Mordor and Putin to Voldemort, and it's breaking their propaganda-pickled brain.
Lol, there is literally nothing pro-Russian about this. It has a Russian flag with the implication that liberals see anything Russia does as a war crime even if the same kind of (or worse) atrocities committed by the US are deemed "unfortunate but necessary." In other words, you don't even have to accept that Russia isn't committing war crimes to recognize the truth of the double standard the meme is pointing out. You are a prime example of the kind of dingus this meme is making fun of.
You, a liberal glimpsing a hint of reality for once in their western-propaganda-saturated life: "Russian Propaganda! [misgendering and/or homophobia]! Putin disinformatzia! [Racism!]" You haven't gotten to the racism part yet, but the thread is young. Here, I'll help you along by explaining some facts for you: Russia entered an ongoing civil war and put a stop to the ethnic cleansing that the Nazi Ukrainian government was perpetrating against Ukraine's eastern population who desperately wanted help from Russia. Fortunately, Russia entering the conflict prevented many more war crimes from being committed by the fascist Kiev regime.
Edit to add because this is just funny:
Accounts shouldn’t be allowed to post more than twice a day in the same community
What a great way to stymie a community and cut down on the thing we all hate: content. Your inability to understand how the world works seems to extend even to the fundamentals of internet forums.
Taking note of the liberal penchant for frothing racism and hatred of Russians is always apropos because liberals have been continuously frothing with hatred of Russians, especially for the past four and half years. It has nothing to do with recent events, but it is rather telling that you would tie someone's posting of a meme about continuous liberal racism to the latest Ukrainian atrocity (which was actually the mass murder of students, not just the usual destruction of civilian infrastructure), because yes, those Ukrainian crimes do happen with regularity too.
The OP post is not a fake scenario. There are examples of liberals advocating for anti-Russian racism in this very thread. It's rather amusing that you would compare OP to MAGA when the group that best represents the liberals in the meme are Blue MAGA (at least when it comes to USians, as there are countless frothing Russophobic Euro-libs too). This "division" is not being "stirred up" by OP, it is already a readily apparent and prominent source of political animosity in the real world as well as here on lemmy. The position a person takes on this issue also says a great deal about their understanding of geopolitics. Are you a fed, or are you really that ignorant?
Right because wikipedia isn't going to have any bias whatsoever, and itself could never be a source of propaganda, no! 🙄
The New York Times, as one example, is orders of magnitude worse than RT when it comes to being a propaganda mouthpiece, yet funny how we aren't going to be reading about that on wikipedia. Something also tells me that you aren't going to be posting a comment reminding everyone of that fact every time there's another post from the endless stream of racist "Asiatic Horde" pieces by mainstream western media. But you've got to make sure you comment to remind everyone about RT though! Especially when Ukraine commits yet another atrocity, you gotta get under that, discredit and downplay it, make it seem like Ukraine's war crimes are just more "Russian disinformation."
Oh look, another clueless lib who thinks that the state that entered an ongoing civil war and put a stop to ethnic cleansing being perpetrated by literal neonazis is the one that needs to be "absolved" when those neonazis unsurprisingly mass murdered students. Yeah, it's Russia that isn't "worth defending" rather it's the poor smol bean war criminal nazis backed by the world hegemon that should be defended against that big meanie Putin. Your head is so stuffed with propaganda it's leaking out your ears and getting all over your keyboard as you try to downplay atrocity.
Wtf are you even talking about you nonsensical asshat? u/Cowbee specifically said: "Look at the way Rimu is treating people." That is judging a person by their behavior towards others, not by who the person happens to be. If you want to be a nerd and call that "merit" then do that, but don't make up lies and then use analogies that don't apply in any way to anything that's happening here. Really are you just pulling random shit that maybe you heard people more thoughtful and aware than yourself say once, and think you can just toss those same phrases out whenever you want to sound like you understand what's happening? Because I hate to have to inform you, that's not how it works.
I'm outside this community. I mostly engage on different platforms but check in here sometimes to see what's going on. I read this thread, and I looked at the replies you received and thought about how I might feel being on the receiving end.
I realized that everything everyone said to you was pretty accurate and fully understandable given the way you came in here and what you were saying. If I were on the receiving end, honestly I would feel ashamed for being such a public chucklefuck and nuisance to have gotten that well deserved excoriation, but then I'd do some self crit and resolve not to be such a twit in the future. Then I'd feel a bit better having learned from my foolishness.
Something tells me that's not what you're going to do though. You're going to pretend you were the innocent victim of a bunch of meanies who were mean to you out of nowhere and nothing you said or did could have been good reason for how mean those meanies were. Am I correct? Or are you going to do the right thing and self crit?
Nazi sympathizer sympathizers don't like being reminded they sympathize with Nazi sympathizers. They're finally realizing that denying plainly objective facts outright makes them look even more ridiculous, so they just seethe and downvote while repeating "rUzZiAn pRoPaGaNda!" over and over to themselves until the sensation of cognitive dissonance fades.
They were very clearly not making any equivalency let alone a false equivalency. They were using an example that we all would agree on as a demonstration. This is a rhetorical device and a perfectly valid, frequently used one at that. But the fact that you and apparently a couple others are trying to make it out as if they were saying "r*** is the same thing as protesting" is disgusting and revealing of your own motives.
"Tankies" are people who actually understand how imperialism and hegemony work. They are able to look past their prejudices using material analysis to recognize who perpetrates imperialism vs those who are victimized by it and struggles against it. "Tankies" stand in support of the latter. Whereas People who use "tankies" as a pejorative (sometimes now called dronies) are those who have failed to sift out from the deluge of propaganda (that we are all saturated by) those specific lies that they want to believe in. They remain ignorant, usually willfully, because it is easier and oftentimes beneficial to them to believe that, for instance, the groups of people their government tells them are evil and "authoritarian" really are evil and "authoritarian."
While it is ultimately a failure of understanding how the world actually works that the drony suffers from, it is often rooted in a failure of self reflection, the refusal to recognize their prejudices, biases, and the material reasons behind their wilful ignorance. So of course the dronies hate people who are willing to hold up a mirror and then look out and see the world as it is, because those people are a reminder and representation of all the things the dronies in their cowardice refuse to look at. Hence we get frothing know-nothings who think they're leftists whinging and even raging about those terrible "tankies."
No one blanketed all Ukrainians, all of us who recognize the accuracy of the OP image well know the Ukrainians of Donbas have been valiantly fighting since 2014 against the nazi regime in Kiev that openly hang their yellow and blue flag right next to swastika flags. But just because it's obviously true that not all Ukrainians are nazis, that doesnt mean there isn't a deep and systemic problem of naziism in western Ukrainian culture with large swathes of the population worshipping nazis like Bandera, or that the Ukrainian military isn't largely composed of literal nazi militias.
Agreed. (Better yet a pit). Though I hope you realize if we were able to do that, then the entirety of the forces fighting against Russia would instantly collapsewand the Zelenky's regime would cease to be.
Oh no! Not the fake internet points down-spammed by NATO bots!
Cringe.
Oh and here are some of the countless examples of the Ukrainian flag and Swastikas (or other symbolism) actually superimposed on or paired with each other, as proudly displayed by openly fascist Ukrainians:
It's funny because a large percentage of Ukraine's military leadership, if not the majority, would (and do) proudly and openly display their national flag right next to the swastika, or even one superimposed on the other*, but their western sycophants will all swear up and down how that's just an evil smear that Putler-Voldemort tries to spread in a desperate attempt to keep their heads safely buried in the sand. I will always laugh at how much western libs will give themselves aneurysms trying to deny it when you point out the straightforward and readily evident reality that Ukraine is a Nazi state, meanwhile everyone in the Ukrainian military with rank higher than private (and plenty of privates too) are like "hey check out my new totenkopf tattoo, it matches the swastika I've had on the other arm for years! Seig heil!"
It's not, though. You will never hear someone calling a man a "fangirl" unless the person saying it is a misogynist trying to insult that man's masculinity. Adding a "-girl" or "-boy" onto any word is not "gender neutral" it is literally the opposite of gender neutral and saying that it is is ridiculous at least and possibly disingenuous.
I think you are misunderstanding how human interaction works. No, it is not what I am doing, responding to someone who is using excessive pedantry (and still reaching false conclusions) necessitates addressing the pedantic points they used, but doing so is very obviously not also being pedantic. You really do seem to have a strange difficulty with recognizing how things that may have aspects that are in parity with each other are not therefore intrinsically the exact same thing as each other.
It's not a lie, it's an easily demonstrable fact. But the meme that you are whining and pissing yourself about says nothing about the fact that Ukraine is a Nazi state (which it is). All it says is that there is a common double standard to what many people (presumably western liberals) think what constitutes a "war crime" vs an "unfortunate but necessary" act depending on whether that act was performed by one of the US's enemies or by the US and its ally regimes. You are just looking for something to throw a fit about.
Yes, and I believe it because I have been following what has been happening in Ukraine since well before February of 2022. The fact that you are unaware of this fact (even one recognized by western media before the SMO) is what is yikes. Thanks to u/freagle for providing some of the mountains of evidence demonstrating beyond all doubt that the Kiev regime is literally a Nazi regime, the most openly Nazi state regime in the world, in fact.
This isn't use of a gendered term in a vacuum. Sure, "Fangirl" is not necessarily a bad thing to call someone in appropriate context, but as always, context makes all the difference. In the context here, the person who used the term is clearly using "fan-x" to be a negative thing. Completely removing gender from the equation, they clearly think it is both wrong and disgusting that someone be a "fan" of Russia. Even without gender, the "fanboy" or "fangirl" term as it is being used here is dripping with condescension and disdain. The fact that they specifically added "girl" to it while having no indication of the actual gender of the person they were referring to is not just some innocent "oh hey let's be equitable this might be someone who has feminine gender expression." They added the "girl" on as a way to add more disparagement to the term they were already using as an insult. That is misogyny.
This isn't hard, and the presence of misogyny should be obvious to anyone, even if they might be hard pressed to pick it apart and explain why. That you are going into this pedantic redditor debate pervert defense of it really brings your own motive into question.
I don't think it is. Not the meme anyway. u/jankforlife may be pro-Russian (which is the correct stance for any anti-imperialist to take) and post other memes that are pro-Russian, but this particular meme is neutral as to whether Russia is a positive or negative force in geopolitics. It's just pointing out the double standard of western liberals. But yes, you are of course correct that there are no "lies" being repeated here, this piefed bootlicker is just throwing a tantrum about seeing a meme where Russia isn't explicitly being compared to Mordor and Putin to Voldemort, and it's breaking their propaganda-pickled brain.
Lol, there is literally nothing pro-Russian about this. It has a Russian flag with the implication that liberals see anything Russia does as a war crime even if the same kind of (or worse) atrocities committed by the US are deemed "unfortunate but necessary." In other words, you don't even have to accept that Russia isn't committing war crimes to recognize the truth of the double standard the meme is pointing out. You are a prime example of the kind of dingus this meme is making fun of.
You, a liberal glimpsing a hint of reality for once in their western-propaganda-saturated life: "Russian Propaganda! [misgendering and/or homophobia]! Putin disinformatzia! [Racism!]" You haven't gotten to the racism part yet, but the thread is young. Here, I'll help you along by explaining some facts for you: Russia entered an ongoing civil war and put a stop to the ethnic cleansing that the Nazi Ukrainian government was perpetrating against Ukraine's eastern population who desperately wanted help from Russia. Fortunately, Russia entering the conflict prevented many more war crimes from being committed by the fascist Kiev regime.
Edit to add because this is just funny:
What a great way to stymie a community and cut down on the thing we all hate: content. Your inability to understand how the world works seems to extend even to the fundamentals of internet forums.
Taking note of the liberal penchant for frothing racism and hatred of Russians is always apropos because liberals have been continuously frothing with hatred of Russians, especially for the past four and half years. It has nothing to do with recent events, but it is rather telling that you would tie someone's posting of a meme about continuous liberal racism to the latest Ukrainian atrocity (which was actually the mass murder of students, not just the usual destruction of civilian infrastructure), because yes, those Ukrainian crimes do happen with regularity too.
I think the implication is that strakitar is the one who is "spiraling," not OP. Amnesigenic is not saying anything about projecting racism.
The OP post is not a fake scenario. There are examples of liberals advocating for anti-Russian racism in this very thread. It's rather amusing that you would compare OP to MAGA when the group that best represents the liberals in the meme are Blue MAGA (at least when it comes to USians, as there are countless frothing Russophobic Euro-libs too). This "division" is not being "stirred up" by OP, it is already a readily apparent and prominent source of political animosity in the real world as well as here on lemmy. The position a person takes on this issue also says a great deal about their understanding of geopolitics. Are you a fed, or are you really that ignorant?
Right because wikipedia isn't going to have any bias whatsoever, and itself could never be a source of propaganda, no! 🙄
The New York Times, as one example, is orders of magnitude worse than RT when it comes to being a propaganda mouthpiece, yet funny how we aren't going to be reading about that on wikipedia. Something also tells me that you aren't going to be posting a comment reminding everyone of that fact every time there's another post from the endless stream of racist "Asiatic Horde" pieces by mainstream western media. But you've got to make sure you comment to remind everyone about RT though! Especially when Ukraine commits yet another atrocity, you gotta get under that, discredit and downplay it, make it seem like Ukraine's war crimes are just more "Russian disinformation."
Oh look, another clueless lib who thinks that the state that entered an ongoing civil war and put a stop to ethnic cleansing being perpetrated by literal neonazis is the one that needs to be "absolved" when those neonazis unsurprisingly mass murdered students. Yeah, it's Russia that isn't "worth defending" rather it's the poor smol bean war criminal nazis backed by the world hegemon that should be defended against that big meanie Putin. Your head is so stuffed with propaganda it's leaking out your ears and getting all over your keyboard as you try to downplay atrocity.
Wtf are you even talking about you nonsensical asshat? u/Cowbee specifically said: "Look at the way Rimu is treating people." That is judging a person by their behavior towards others, not by who the person happens to be. If you want to be a nerd and call that "merit" then do that, but don't make up lies and then use analogies that don't apply in any way to anything that's happening here. Really are you just pulling random shit that maybe you heard people more thoughtful and aware than yourself say once, and think you can just toss those same phrases out whenever you want to sound like you understand what's happening? Because I hate to have to inform you, that's not how it works.
I'm outside this community. I mostly engage on different platforms but check in here sometimes to see what's going on. I read this thread, and I looked at the replies you received and thought about how I might feel being on the receiving end.
I realized that everything everyone said to you was pretty accurate and fully understandable given the way you came in here and what you were saying. If I were on the receiving end, honestly I would feel ashamed for being such a public chucklefuck and nuisance to have gotten that well deserved excoriation, but then I'd do some self crit and resolve not to be such a twit in the future. Then I'd feel a bit better having learned from my foolishness.
Something tells me that's not what you're going to do though. You're going to pretend you were the innocent victim of a bunch of meanies who were mean to you out of nowhere and nothing you said or did could have been good reason for how mean those meanies were. Am I correct? Or are you going to do the right thing and self crit?
...That's exactly what they are. Are you not getting the joke or am I not getting yours?