"Why care about other countries instead of focusing on our own" is often a manipulative way to say "let's allow xenophobia and sacrifice other nationalities to fuel our own".
And I'm sorry, but the guy in the last picture probably has it much easier than people going through the war in Ukraine.
“Why care about other countries instead of focusing on our own”
What about Ukraine and Israel make them notable relative to, say, Brazil or The Philippines or Angola? Why is "caring" restricted entirely to sending in more military hardware for the purposes of butchering enemy troops and infrastructure?
the guy in the last picture probably has it much easier than people going through the war in Ukraine
Until the police come by, sure. But guess where else we're dropping tens of billions of dollars.
I never said that Brazil or the Philippines or Angola shouldn't be helped. And I don't see why helping no countries at all would be better than helping a few (well other than Israel, which is trying really hard to top off the nazis).
None of what you mentioned is related to what I had written. My point was that there is no moral grounds to try to say "we should help us americans instead of those stupid foreigners". The sad facts that which countries get helped and where the budgets get put are heavily dependant on the personal interest of politicians is not linked to that, it just adds problems on top.
Men in Ukraine can't even cross the border to escape that Nazi death cult, nevermind vote to end this intractable war over natural resources that America started.
The USA shouldn’t be funding wars abroad when it’s own people are starving and homeless. This is not xenophobia. That is common sense. The USA shouldn’t be funding wars period, actually.
Ukraine has a right wing government that dissolved all the other parties and which has Nazis platoons. That is fascism. The USA is funding fascism in Ukraine while Russia is trying to denazify it.
There was also a U.S. funded genocide happening in Dombass and Crimea that the Russians stopped. The USA doesn’t help against oppression. The USA exports oppression.
It has a democratically elected government and it banned a small minority of parties that were collaborating with an invading military, as its pre-existing constitution allowed for.
Russia isn't de-Nazifying shit. Russia is grabbing up valuable land and creating a vassal state. The "de-Nazifying" line is blatant marketing to sell its imperialism.
There was literally a genocide of ethnic Russians happening in Donbas and they asked Russians for aid which the right wing government of Ukraine just let it happen
It is a puppet government placed after the CIA backed coup of the democratically elected president. Banning all 11 opposition parties is literally what fascists do.
The Ukrainian units literally have swasticas and say Nazi rethoric and volunteers from other countries constantly complain of the virulent racism they experience.
Nazis are an existential threat to the Russian state as they have demonstrated by allying with NATO and causing a coup to the former elected president. That is why Russia has to denazi Ukraine.
Even if we accept that Euromaidan was a CIA-backed coup, which I do not, the Zelenskyy government was not elected immediately after that. A different government was, and Zelenskyy beat them at the next election
Banning all 11 opposition parties is literally what fascists do.
Banning parties for literal wartime treason is not fascism. You're doing the equivalent of "fascists drink water, therefore drinking water is fascist". They also were not even slightly close to "all opposition parties".
Yes, there are fascists in Ukraine. I bet they'd be a lot fucking easier to deal with if the Russian military wasn't invading. If those fascists want to get themselves killed fighting imperialists then that's fine by me. Considering one of Russia's best forces has been Wagner - where did that name come from I fucking wonder - then sometimes they're literally just killing each other. I am not about to throw the other forty million Ukrainians under the bus because of them, just as I would not advocate for America and China to beat the shit out of Russia over the existence of Wagner.
Nazis are an existential threat to the Russian state as they have demonstrated by allying with NATO and causing a coup to the former elected president. That is why Russia has to denazi Ukraine.
Literally the American government talking about terrorism. You are doing the same thing. A few thousand Ukrainian shitheads are not able to destroy Russia.
Zelensky beat Petroshenko because he ran as a peace candidate under the Minsk Agreement. He traveled to the front lines with a camera crew in an effort to shame the Azov Battalion into not shelling the Donetsk City Center. The Nazi laughed in his face and punked him in front of the cameras.
Now he's just a kapo stooge for a Nazi regime.
I can support Ukraine's right to defend themselves from Russian invaders and also be against Nazis.
I mean I know this is hard to understand, but just try real, real, REAL hard.
Not when Nazis control the Ukrainian government. Zelensky is a kapo stooge that has zero control over anything.
Ukrainians can't even vote. They can't "defend themselves" against TCC press gangs forcing their men into vans off the street. "Busification".
Let Ukrainians vote. That's how you help them "defend themselves".
The coup government has no right to "defend itself" anymore than Israel's genocidal occupation does, just another fascist ethnostate proxy for Western imperialism.
Lol fuck that. Nobody in a bad spot wants to hear that some underage minority prostitutes in some bigoted religious third world country have it worse. There is always someone who has it worse, in fact this is one of the most common deflections when the marginalized ask for (literal) change.
The USA financed a coup in Ukraine which placed a far right wing puppet leader that the USA can control to use for NATO expansion and to threat Russia’s borders
It’s not wrong to say regulatory capture is a problem, it just doesn’t go far enough. The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
“Everything that doesn’t agree with me is a troll”. I could literally say the same of the articles that you sent since all that western media and news sources do is lie and backtrack, and many times not even backtrack.
Slight correction: they have billions to hand to private companies who then give a pittance to the poor and needy while naturally cutting a profit and exploiting every loophole and every opening to increase their profits and revenues, because something something corporate efficiency?
If it was accurate the suited hand would be taking money out of the cup and sending a cop to arrest the homeless person. Then in the next panel the homeless person is convicted of some contrived bullshit and forced into a slave labor camp ran by the suited man who stole his money and locked him up.
Go crawl in a trench along the Dneiper if you feel strongly about aiding a Nazi regime to steal natural resources on behalf of Western billionaires and corporations.
Take the place of a Ukrainian man who can't vote, can't leave, can't end this pointless war we started.
Except in real life Ukraine is not full of Nazis, that was a bullshit excuse for Putin to invade and try to steal their land, for the benefit of himself because he's a god damned dictator. I will never understand how someone can see a country straight up invade another and kill thousands of civilians and be on the invader's side.
can’t end this pointless war we started.
Wait, did Ukraine invade Russia? What kind of bullshit alternate universe are you from?
"Real life Ukraine" has no more Nazis than any other given nation. The problem is that this small minority has had a stranglehold on the government since the U.S. bankrolled coup in 2014 that put them in power.
When Ukrainians finally had a chance to vote in a real election they rejected Poroshenko and the Svoboda coup leaders. They won every Oblast except Lviv, the ultra nationalist stronghold for actual ethnic Ukrainians.
Zelensky promised peace under the Minsk Agreement, all while the Azov Brigade continued to shell civilians in the Donetsk City center.
He even brought a camera crew to the front lines in an attempt to shame them into stopping. They laughed in his face and punked him in front of the cameras for all to see. Now he's just a kapo flunky for the men who actually control Ukraine.
John Mccain, Lindsey Graham, Victoria Nuland, they invaded Ukraine.
Calling Putin a dictator, someone with overwhelmingly popular support, is a meaningless pejorative alongside their enemy that we foster. Ukrainians can't vote. Men can't even leave to escape this Nazi death cult. There wasn't anything democratic about Svoboda's coup, and there's nothing democratic about Ukraine now.
Russia has more natural resources than any other nation in the world, and even more so per capita. That's all you need to know about the West's adversarial nature with Russia, why the RAND Corporation literally wrote a white paper that outlines how to destroy Russia and take all their shit.
The Donbass rejected the coup and the overthrow of their duly elected government. They had their own elections and expressed the democratic human right of self determination. They neither participated in any subsequent elections, legit or not, nor are they subject to the outcome decided in absentia.
Ukraine is now just another fascist ethnostate proxy for Western imperialism, same as Israel. Neither have a right to exist.
With the unfortunate Arctic thaw this will only increase access to to this vast untouched trove of resources.
Russia is fighting an existential threat. The idea that they're the aggressor or a threat to Europe is ridiculous propaganda. For centuries, every war ought between them and Europe has always come from Europe. Every single one.
The part where you claimed Putin wasn't a dictator becuase he has "overwhelmingly popular support" for starters. He very much is a dictator, and he only has "suport" because if you criticize him he throws you in jail. This is a man who literally kills his political opposition. Do not even try to claim he isn't a dictator, because he is.
Russia has more natural resources than any other nation in the world, and even more so per capita. That’s all you need to know about the West’s adversarial nature with Russia, why the RAND Corporation literally wrote a white paper that outlines how to destroy Russia and take all their shit.
A corporation writing a whitepaper and a vast conspiracy of every western nation against Russia are two different things. Corporations and think tanks and NGOs and shit write whitepapers all the time. Do you have any actual proof that "the west" is implementing this whitepaper?
They had their own elections and expressed the democratic human right of self determination.
Lol ok. We are now about to talk about how Russia rigs all their elections. You are going to get your ass handed to you on a silver platter. Spoiler alert: Russia does not have free elections.
You use the word "dictator" like a subjective pejorative instead of a definition. Just say you don't like him. You don't have to like him to acknowledge he is the duly elected leader of a sovereign nation.
Again, democracy to people like you is just selective privilege enjoyed on the backs of the oppressed.
America directly arms over 80% of dictatorship globally, but we reserve the word only for those with natural resources we wish to covet.
It's not your fossil fuels. It's not your rare earth minerals. They're not your slaves for your T-shirt factories.
The American Empire is at its end and you need to come to terms with that, as well as with the delusional propaganda you regurgitate.
53 Comments
Solumbran@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 1y
"Why care about other countries instead of focusing on our own" is often a manipulative way to say "let's allow xenophobia and sacrifice other nationalities to fuel our own".
And I'm sorry, but the guy in the last picture probably has it much easier than people going through the war in Ukraine.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 94d
What about Ukraine and Israel make them notable relative to, say, Brazil or The Philippines or Angola? Why is "caring" restricted entirely to sending in more military hardware for the purposes of butchering enemy troops and infrastructure?
Until the police come by, sure. But guess where else we're dropping tens of billions of dollars.
Solumbran@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 94d
I never said that Brazil or the Philippines or Angola shouldn't be helped. And I don't see why helping no countries at all would be better than helping a few (well other than Israel, which is trying really hard to top off the nazis).
None of what you mentioned is related to what I had written. My point was that there is no moral grounds to try to say "we should help us americans instead of those stupid foreigners". The sad facts that which countries get helped and where the budgets get put are heavily dependant on the personal interest of politicians is not linked to that, it just adds problems on top.
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2d
Men in Ukraine can't even cross the border to escape that Nazi death cult, nevermind vote to end this intractable war over natural resources that America started.
FUCK UKRAINE. FUCK ISRAEL. FUCK YOUR WAR MACHINE.
Confidant6198@lemmy.ml · -13 pts · 1y
The USA shouldn’t be funding wars abroad when it’s own people are starving and homeless. This is not xenophobia. That is common sense. The USA shouldn’t be funding wars period, actually.
lud@lemm.ee · 19 pts · 1y
Confidant6198@lemmy.ml · -76 pts · 1y
Ukraine has a right wing government that dissolved all the other parties and which has Nazis platoons. That is fascism. The USA is funding fascism in Ukraine while Russia is trying to denazify it.
There was also a U.S. funded genocide happening in Dombass and Crimea that the Russians stopped. The USA doesn’t help against oppression. The USA exports oppression.
Skua@kbin.earth · 29 pts · 1y
It has a democratically elected government and it banned a small minority of parties that were collaborating with an invading military, as its pre-existing constitution allowed for.
Russia isn't de-Nazifying shit. Russia is grabbing up valuable land and creating a vassal state. The "de-Nazifying" line is blatant marketing to sell its imperialism.
remotelove@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 1y
Confidant6198@lemmy.ml · -28 pts · 1y
There was literally a genocide of ethnic Russians happening in Donbas and they asked Russians for aid which the right wing government of Ukraine just let it happen
remotelove@lemmy.ca · 10 pts · 1y
Confidant6198@lemmy.ml · -37 pts · 1y
It is a puppet government placed after the CIA backed coup of the democratically elected president. Banning all 11 opposition parties is literally what fascists do.
The Ukrainian units literally have swasticas and say Nazi rethoric and volunteers from other countries constantly complain of the virulent racism they experience.
Nazis are an existential threat to the Russian state as they have demonstrated by allying with NATO and causing a coup to the former elected president. That is why Russia has to denazi Ukraine.
Skua@kbin.earth · 13 pts · 1y
Even if we accept that Euromaidan was a CIA-backed coup, which I do not, the Zelenskyy government was not elected immediately after that. A different government was, and Zelenskyy beat them at the next election
Banning parties for literal wartime treason is not fascism. You're doing the equivalent of "fascists drink water, therefore drinking water is fascist". They also were not even slightly close to "all opposition parties".
Yes, there are fascists in Ukraine. I bet they'd be a lot fucking easier to deal with if the Russian military wasn't invading. If those fascists want to get themselves killed fighting imperialists then that's fine by me. Considering one of Russia's best forces has been Wagner - where did that name come from I fucking wonder - then sometimes they're literally just killing each other. I am not about to throw the other forty million Ukrainians under the bus because of them, just as I would not advocate for America and China to beat the shit out of Russia over the existence of Wagner.
Literally the American government talking about terrorism. You are doing the same thing. A few thousand Ukrainian shitheads are not able to destroy Russia.
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2d
Zelensky beat Petroshenko because he ran as a peace candidate under the Minsk Agreement. He traveled to the front lines with a camera crew in an effort to shame the Azov Battalion into not shelling the Donetsk City Center. The Nazi laughed in his face and punked him in front of the cameras. Now he's just a kapo stooge for a Nazi regime.
Let Ukrainians vote, FFS.
Hawanja@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 123d
This is straight up Russian propoganda.
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 2d
You are not immune to propaganda, guys chanting Third Reich slogans like "Slava Ukraine".🙄
Hawanja@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 1d
I can support Ukraine's right to defend themselves from Russian invaders and also be against Nazis.
I mean I know this is hard to understand, but just try real, real, REAL hard.
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Not when Nazis control the Ukrainian government. Zelensky is a kapo stooge that has zero control over anything.
Ukrainians can't even vote. They can't "defend themselves" against TCC press gangs forcing their men into vans off the street. "Busification".
Let Ukrainians vote. That's how you help them "defend themselves".
The coup government has no right to "defend itself" anymore than Israel's genocidal occupation does, just another fascist ethnostate proxy for Western imperialism.
I understand.
Hawanja@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 253d
remotelove@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 1y
lud@lemm.ee · 4 pts · 1y
GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip · -23 pts · 1y
Lol fuck that. Nobody in a bad spot wants to hear that some underage minority prostitutes in some bigoted religious third world country have it worse. There is always someone who has it worse, in fact this is one of the most common deflections when the marginalized ask for (literal) change.
orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts · 28 pts · 1y
The bottomless wallet always opens up for war.
match@pawb.social · 8 pts · 1y
because the money just goes from one pocket to the other
ReakDuck@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 1y
Confidant6198@lemmy.ml · -43 pts · 1y
The USA financed a coup in Ukraine which placed a far right wing puppet leader that the USA can control to use for NATO expansion and to threat Russia’s borders
ReakDuck@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 1y
Souce?
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 94d
How the CIA and Ukrainian intelligence secretly forged a deep partnership
The Covert Operation to Back Ukrainian Independence that Haunts the CIA
The Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists: Cold War Years
Appleseuss@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1y
Smooth brain here
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 2d
Ablist slurs in behalf of a Nazi regime. Stay classy!
Appleseuss@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2d
Hydra_Fk@reddthat.com · 13 pts · 1y
Missing frame is the government squeezing the cash out of the middle working class before tossing change to that poor man.
davel@lemmy.ml · 20 pts · 1y
what a lack of class consciousness does to a mf
Relatedly:
Hydra_Fk@reddthat.com · -4 pts · 1y
So you agree that regulatory capture is the problem, cool I thought you were just going to post some links im not going to read.
davel@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 1y
It’s not wrong to say regulatory capture is a problem, it just doesn’t go far enough. The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
Hydra_Fk@reddthat.com · -3 pts · 1y
davel@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 1y
This is too ignorant to be believed.
.
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 1y
And comically large wheelbarrows of cash being delivered to billionaires
Xatolos@reddthat.com · 11 pts · 1y
Confidant6198@lemmy.ml · -8 pts · 1y
The Democrats literally cut social security and irs funding to send more money to wars, the fuck you talking about?
Xatolos@reddthat.com · 0 pts · 1y
Confidant6198@lemmy.ml · -3 pts · 1y
https://youtu.be/OFi73TzEN_8
Xatolos@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 1y
Confidant6198@lemmy.ml · -2 pts · 1y
“Everything that doesn’t agree with me is a troll”. I could literally say the same of the articles that you sent since all that western media and news sources do is lie and backtrack, and many times not even backtrack.
Xatolos@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 1y
Trainguyrom@reddthat.com · 10 pts · 1y
Slight correction: they have billions to hand to private companies who then give a pittance to the poor and needy while naturally cutting a profit and exploiting every loophole and every opening to increase their profits and revenues, because something something corporate efficiency?
remotelove@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 1y
cerement@slrpnk.net · 16 pts · 1y
2022 USA military spending: $812 billion
davel@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 1y
Not counting the black budget and clandestine income from drug trafficking and such.
yogthos@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 1y
Deflated0ne@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1y
If it was accurate the suited hand would be taking money out of the cup and sending a cop to arrest the homeless person. Then in the next panel the homeless person is convicted of some contrived bullshit and forced into a slave labor camp ran by the suited man who stole his money and locked him up.
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2d
Repeal the 13th Amendment. End legalized slavery. 💯
Cnote5@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 259d
https://nolaworkers.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/WarOverAll-768x776.jpg
Some things never change. I like the artwork. It's on point. And hits just as hard as this old cartoon from a century ago.
njm1314@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1y
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2d
Irelephant@lemm.ee · 1 pts · 1y
tbh the same would be happening if they stopped funding ukraines defence and israels genocide. After all, helping poor people is communism!
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2d
I'm older than "Ukraine". This is a natural resources grab, just like every other war we bankroll.
Ukraine is just another fascist proxy ethnostate we use as a foothold, same as Israel.
Hawanja@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 123d
We should be giving billions to Ukraine. This is not a fair comparison.
We should be giving billions to end the homeless crisis. We can do both.
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 2d
Go crawl in a trench along the Dneiper if you feel strongly about aiding a Nazi regime to steal natural resources on behalf of Western billionaires and corporations.
Take the place of a Ukrainian man who can't vote, can't leave, can't end this pointless war we started.
Do it.
Hawanja@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Except in real life Ukraine is not full of Nazis, that was a bullshit excuse for Putin to invade and try to steal their land, for the benefit of himself because he's a god damned dictator. I will never understand how someone can see a country straight up invade another and kill thousands of civilians and be on the invader's side.
Wait, did Ukraine invade Russia? What kind of bullshit alternate universe are you from?
Eat me.
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
"Real life Ukraine" has no more Nazis than any other given nation. The problem is that this small minority has had a stranglehold on the government since the U.S. bankrolled coup in 2014 that put them in power. When Ukrainians finally had a chance to vote in a real election they rejected Poroshenko and the Svoboda coup leaders. They won every Oblast except Lviv, the ultra nationalist stronghold for actual ethnic Ukrainians. Zelensky promised peace under the Minsk Agreement, all while the Azov Brigade continued to shell civilians in the Donetsk City center. He even brought a camera crew to the front lines in an attempt to shame them into stopping. They laughed in his face and punked him in front of the cameras for all to see. Now he's just a kapo flunky for the men who actually control Ukraine.
John Mccain, Lindsey Graham, Victoria Nuland, they invaded Ukraine.
Calling Putin a dictator, someone with overwhelmingly popular support, is a meaningless pejorative alongside their enemy that we foster. Ukrainians can't vote. Men can't even leave to escape this Nazi death cult. There wasn't anything democratic about Svoboda's coup, and there's nothing democratic about Ukraine now.
Russia has more natural resources than any other nation in the world, and even more so per capita. That's all you need to know about the West's adversarial nature with Russia, why the RAND Corporation literally wrote a white paper that outlines how to destroy Russia and take all their shit.
The Donbass rejected the coup and the overthrow of their duly elected government. They had their own elections and expressed the democratic human right of self determination. They neither participated in any subsequent elections, legit or not, nor are they subject to the outcome decided in absentia.
Ukraine is now just another fascist ethnostate proxy for Western imperialism, same as Israel. Neither have a right to exist.
And besides, I'm older than "Ukraine".
Chew on that.
Hawanja@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 22h
That's all total bullshit. The exact opposite of what you're saying is the truth.
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 21h
Uhhh... Okay, bud. Exactly what part?
With the unfortunate Arctic thaw this will only increase access to to this vast untouched trove of resources.
Russia is fighting an existential threat. The idea that they're the aggressor or a threat to Europe is ridiculous propaganda. For centuries, every war ought between them and Europe has always come from Europe. Every single one.
Hawanja@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 12h
The part where you claimed Putin wasn't a dictator becuase he has "overwhelmingly popular support" for starters. He very much is a dictator, and he only has "suport" because if you criticize him he throws you in jail. This is a man who literally kills his political opposition. Do not even try to claim he isn't a dictator, because he is.
A corporation writing a whitepaper and a vast conspiracy of every western nation against Russia are two different things. Corporations and think tanks and NGOs and shit write whitepapers all the time. Do you have any actual proof that "the west" is implementing this whitepaper?
Lol ok. We are now about to talk about how Russia rigs all their elections. You are going to get your ass handed to you on a silver platter. Spoiler alert: Russia does not have free elections.
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3h
You use the word "dictator" like a subjective pejorative instead of a definition. Just say you don't like him. You don't have to like him to acknowledge he is the duly elected leader of a sovereign nation. Again, democracy to people like you is just selective privilege enjoyed on the backs of the oppressed. America directly arms over 80% of dictatorship globally, but we reserve the word only for those with natural resources we wish to covet. It's not your fossil fuels. It's not your rare earth minerals. They're not your slaves for your T-shirt factories.
The American Empire is at its end and you need to come to terms with that, as well as with the delusional propaganda you regurgitate.
It's over. Go home.