Sinwar's killing is a win for Israel — but many Palestinians are proud of his defiant last stand
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/sinwar-killed-hamas-gaza-israel-war-rcna176064
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/sinwar-killed-hamas-gaza-israel-war-rcna176064
53 Comments
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 69 pts · 1y
Israel made a mistake releasing the footage. This entire time they have been claiming he was a coward hiding in a bunker, while he is on camera staring down the drone coming to confirm his death, wearing full battle regalia, defiantly throwing scrap metal at the drone while missing a hand. Regardless of your opinion of Sinwar, this is an objective optical failure that will play against Israel.
Israel thinks on video game logic, if you beat the big bad boss everyone gives up, but that's not what has happened. Sinwar is now more popular in death than he was in life among Palestinians, who actually believed him to be hiding, and not fighting on the frontlines as a 61 year old man.
Anyone who thinks this is the start of a ceasefire has seriously misjudged the material conditions of Palestine.
rickdg@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 1y
Right-wing extremists leading Israel know very well what to do to keep this conflict going. They’re making sure that any peace period will be temporary.
jonne@infosec.pub · 13 pts · 1y
Yep, despite confirming with the drone that he was wounded and unarmed, they decided not to risk anything and just shot a tank shell at the building.
Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 1y
Speaking of optics: Did Israel mention why he was in battle fatigues? I was given the impression that he’d be dressed as a doctor / ambulance driver / UN worker etc but he looks suspiciously like a soldier.
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 1y
They said he was dressed as a woman a month ago
Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 1y
That looks very much like the classic totally unverifiable headline that has bought modern news media a terrible name… btw you’ve got a fantastic user name for this topic.
DarkGamer@fedia.io · -31 pts · 1y
He was likely hiding underground and IDF happened to catch him while he was trying to flee. Ineffectively throwing a stick at a drone leading to his death is a great analog for his military strategy. Under his violent leadership nothing productive was accomplished, and a lot of people died.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 22 pts · 1y
Citing Times of Israel? Really? Lmao
He was in full combat regalia.
Meeper@reddthat.com · 7 pts · 1y
Exactly, the puppet is obvious. I also first put on my full combat regalia when I'm supposedly trying to flee in a rush...
Sundial@lemm.ee · 22 pts · 1y
That entire article is pure conjecture sourced from the IDF, an organization known to lie and dehumanize their opponents.
shaserlark@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 1y
Hasbara‘s gonna hasbara
DarkGamer@fedia.io · -13 pts · 1y
Everyone who disagrees with you is Hasbara? OK pal.
goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org · 6 pts · 1y
Or you're just notoriously spreading bad hasbara.
Doorbook@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1y
Yah this account since day one reek of hasbara
shaserlark@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 1y
Maybe I’m just Hamas or Hizbollah?
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 1y
Up against a 3 soldiers, a tank, and a drone
A refugee born in an Apartheid, from parents who were ethnically cleansed, killed on the front lines by a militarily superior force engaged in genocide
Definitely a stark analogy
Sundial@lemm.ee · 33 pts · 1y
This isn't a win for the Israelis who wanted a ceasefire or the hostages released. There will need to be a new leader to take over before negotiations can resume and chances are good they'll be even more radicalized against Israel.
Zaktor@sopuli.xyz · 14 pts · 1y
And as their assassinations keep pushing the leadership lower and lower down the organizational structure there's less likelihood whoever is around by the time they negotiate will have the influence to actually command people to cease fighting.
DarkGamer@fedia.io · -25 pts · 1y
shaserlark@sh.itjust.works · 26 pts · 1y
How would they be able to influence Israeli leadership? Those are the people committing genocide currently.
DarkGamer@fedia.io · -14 pts · 1y
Sundial@lemm.ee · 26 pts · 1y
Israel is committing genocide and an ethnic cleansing. Claiming otherwise is incredibly callous and cruel.
::: spoiler Apartheid
Amnesty Report
Human Rights Watch Report
B'TSelem Report with quick Explainer
:::
::: spoiler Genocide
Holocaust scholar to discuss his conclusion that Gaza campaign constitutes genocide
UN Expert Says Impunity for Israel Must End as 'Genocidal Violence' Spreads to West Bank
“A Textbook Case of Genocide”: Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel’s Assault on Gaza
800+ Legal Scholars Say Israel May Be Perpetrating 'Crime of Genocide' in Gaza
Law for Palestine Releases Database with 500+ Instances of Israeli Incitement to Genocide – Continuously Updated
AP News, Time, Reuters, Vox, CBC
:::
::: spoiler Human Shields
Hamas:
HRW on Laws-of-War Violations 2009
Agency Demands Full Respect for the Sanctity of Its Premises in Gaza - July 2014
HRW - Palestinian Armed Groups’ October 7 Assault on Israel
Israel:
Israel/OPT: Israeli attacks targeting Hamas and other armed group fighters that killed scores of displaced civilians in Rafah should be investigated as war crimes
HRW - Gaza: Unlawful Israeli Hospital Strikes Worsen Health Crisis
Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:
IDF uses Human Shields,
Including Children (2013 Report)
Israel “Systematically” Uses Gaza Children as Human Shields, Rights Group Finds 2024
Breaking The Silence - Testimonies from IDF Veterans
:::
::: spoiler Deliberate Attacks on Civilians
Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:
The Dahiya Doctrine & Israel’s Use of Disproportionate Force
‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Lavender
Where's Daddy
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.
:::
::: spoiler Starvation
Israel: Starvation Used as Weapon of War in Gaza
:::
DarkGamer@fedia.io · -9 pts · 1y
Sundial@lemm.ee · 12 pts · 1y
I took it from a different user who created it to combat misinformation and have been re-using it because of comments such as yours.
You're entire argument is why you don't believe it's genocide when I've given you sources by credible institutions and hundreds of scholars explaining why this viewpoint is wrong. To take your climate change denial example, in this case you're the climate change denier who's intentionally ignoring the voice of so many experts and very blatant evidence.
You're link to the ICJ ruling doesn't prove your point. They didn't say there was no genocide. This is what they said:
So they didn't say it wasn't genocide. They just said the case of genocide brought forth by South Africa can proceed.
jordanlund@lemmy.world MOD · 5 pts · 1y
Removed and temp banned for repeated genocide denial and misinformation.
To be 100% clear here, the precise definition of a genocide has five criteria, it only takes ONE to be declared a genocide.
Israel's actions in Gaza meet ALL FIVE requirements.
https://iccforum.com/genocide-convention
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
jordanlund@lemmy.world MOD · 17 pts · 1y
Removed for genocide denial.
To be 100% clear here, the precise definition of a genocide has five criteria, it only takes ONE to be declared a genocide.
Israel's actions in Gaza meet ALL FIVE requirements.
https://iccforum.com/genocide-convention
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
tortillaPeanuts@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 1y
Why didn't you include all of article II in your criteria?
Here's the beginning:
The intent and type of group being targeted are also part of the criteria.
In this case it would be Israel intending to destroy, in whole or in part, Palestinians. Which South Africa is trying to prove in court using statements that Israeli politicians have made and the actions of the IDF.
jordanlund@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 1y
When Israeli snipers are shooting little kids in the head, that is not hard to prove.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war
"“One child, I could see there was a shot to the head. They were doing CPR on this five- or six-year-old girl who obviously died,” said Gupta.
“There was another little girl about the same age. I saw a bullet entry wound on her head. Her father was there, crying and asking me, ‘Can you save her? She’s my only child.’”
Gupta said that a third young child also had a shot to the head and was sent for a CT scan.
“The neurosurgeon looked and said, ‘There’s no hope.’ You could see the bullet had gone through the head. I don’t know how old he was, but young,” she said.
. . .
"The doctor said he treated five children he believes were shot by snipers because the placing of the bullets suggested they were not hit randomly but targeted.
“They were mostly shot in the thorax, the chest area, some in the abdomen. There was one boy shot in the face. As a result he had a shattered jaw. There were two children who had been shot in the chest, young, under the age of 10, who did not survive. Two others, one shot in the abdomen, did survive. They were still recovering in the hospital when I left,” he said.
Ahmad noted the children were often shot by “one large-calibre bullet” which could produce devastating wounds."
. . .
"“This is not a normal war. The war in Ukraine has killed 500 kids in two years and the war in Gaza has killed over 10,000 in less than five months. We have seen wars before but this is something that is a dark stain on our shared humanity.”"
Zaktor@sopuli.xyz · 12 pts · 1y
If you genocide them enough, then they don't need leaders at all. Then there will be more lebensraum for the people of proper genetic stock that you think deserve to exist.
match@pawb.social · 7 pts · 1y
like there's gonna be elections in the rubble?
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1y
So it's a win for Netanyahu who wants neither of those things.
lnxtx@feddit.nl · 29 pts · 1y
40000+ killed people for what? Where is the win? Now they are spreading false propaganda. Even Kamara speaks as a mouthpiece of Israel.
Axis of resistance will choose another leader.
Game is not over.
Genocide continues anyway.
VanillaBean@lemmy.world · -24 pts · 1y
jordanlund@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1y
Removed for genocide denial.
To be 100% clear here, the precise definition of a genocide has five criteria, it only takes ONE to be declared a genocide.
Israel's actions in Gaza meet ALL FIVE requirements.
https://iccforum.com/genocide-convention
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
VanillaBean@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1y
jordanlund@lemmy.world MOD · 2 pts · 1y
You've been given the definition of genocide once already, continued denial earns you a temp ban.
xor@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -2 pts · 1y
I do believe that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, but you missed an important part of the definition from your source:
Doing one of the above actions alone isn't enough to be classified as genocide, it has to be done with systematic intent to destroy the group. That's the bit that's much harder to actually prove, because it requires having insider knowledge of Israel's military complex.
jordanlund@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1y
Yup, we have that too, in multiple statements from the heads of the Israeli government:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/netanyahu-from-river-sea-israel-control-1234949408/
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/israel-posts-video-saying-are-no-innocent-civilians-gaza-rcna157111
johny@feddit.org · 6 pts · 1y
That or reading public statements from politicians, military officials and other public figures.
And observing the actions of Israel, what other intent can denying food and blowing up all hospitals have than extermination.
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1y
In addition to JordanLund's sources, there are significantly more, both on intent and action
::: spoiler Genocide
Others: AP News, Time, Reuters, Vox, CBC
:::
::: spoiler Deliberate Attacks on Civilians
Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:
The Dahiya Doctrine & Israel’s Use of Disproportionate Force
‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Lavender
Where's Daddy
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.
:::
MediaBiasFactChecker@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 1y
::: spoiler NBC News - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report) Information for NBC News:
::: spoiler Search topics on Ground.News https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/sinwar-killed-hamas-gaza-israel-war-rcna176064 ::: Media Bias Fact Check | bot support
drmoose@lemmy.world · -12 pts · 1y
"Proud of his defiant last stand"
Thats simply disgusting. There's nothing prideful about this monster of a human being. The only perception of him should be distain and erasure.
Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 1y
Imagine being bullied and humiliated every single day of your life… then somebody gives that bully a black eye. That person would be your hero.
drmoose@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 1y
Not if that person is a terrorist with no qualms of raping, torturing and murdering people. Who also btw bullied the shit out of you before.
Who are these people that think Hamas was not abusing and murdering Palestinians before war? Are you 12 or something and missed that whole history?
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1y
Did you miss the whole story? Israel has always been the obstacle for peace.
::: spoiler De-development via the Gaza Occupation
The Israeli imposed closure on Gaza began in 1991, temporarily, becoming permanent in 1993. The barrier began around Gaza around 1972.
Page 402
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
:::
::: spoiler Blockade, including Aid
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
After the 'disengagement' in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of 'dual-use' Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.
:::
::: spoiler Settlements, Occupation, and Apartheid
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets 'Transferred' to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
:::
::: spoiler Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing
:::
::: spoiler Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
:::
drmoose@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 1y
Does not justify the existence of Hamas tho
Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 1y
Justify? Probably not. Explain? Most definitely. The state of Israel is the only thing that benefits from Hamas.
drmoose@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1y
I think there's more to it than Israel being oppresors. There's plenty of internal oppression like Islam being the most oppressive religion on the planet to start.
Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1y
Here’s the thing: the Zionist movement (as opposed to Jews, generally) has the stated aim of “removing” the current population of Palestine and refilling it with people of a different ethnoculture. The only thing that all Palestinians can currently agree on is that the Zionist policy of Lebensraum (yeah - I said it) must be stopped. Some people only have the clothes on their back and the rubble under their feet. At that point you’ll join with anybody to remove the genocidal apartheid yoke of the oppressor. The inevitable infighting can wait until the external aggressor is defeated. A complete human tragedy for millions is the result. Both sets of lunatic religious extremists making misery for the people in the middle.
Sundial@lemm.ee · 3 pts · 1y
It really does.
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 1y
The existence of Hamas, and any armed resistance movement, is directly due to the decades of violence experienced daily under the permanent occupation, the Apartheid State, of Israel. It's impossible to understand their existence if you don't understand the lived experience and material conditions they are forced to live under. Can you condemn the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in the same way as the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto?
In the Shadow of the Holocaust by Masha Gessen, the situation in Gaza is compared to the Warsaw Ghettos. The comparison was also made by a Palestinian poet who was later killed by an Israeli airstrike. Adi Callai, an Israeli, has also written on the parallels in his article The Gaza Ghetto Uprising and expanded upon in his corresponding video
drmoose@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1y
You are confusing "understanding" with "justifying". Try again?
Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1y
Am I twelve? No. I’m nearly fifty and for almost thirty years have lost friends and colleagues to Hamas scum… not sure why you’d ever think I’d support genocidal religious extremists. My original point still stands - because that is the general consensus amongst all the refugees I’ve dealt with. Maybe you’ve dealt with different parts of the strip where attitudes might be different?
Doorbook@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 1y
I like raping there, what a projection. The only raping entity is “Israel” soldier admitting that on tape.
Hamas killing Palestinians is another projection. The only one who have doctrine of killing their own is also the “Israel”