Masabumi Hosono (細野 正文, Hosono Masabumi; 15 October 1870 – 14 March 1939[1]) was a Japanese civil servant. He survived the sinking of the Titanic on 15 April 1912 but found himself condemned and ostracized by the Japanese public, press, and government because of a misconception that he decided to save himself rather than go down with the ship.[2]
Honour culture is fucked. It's just peer pressure codified, and with the exception that if you lose your honour as a man you should commit suicide or be ostracized to the point that death may have been a mercy. Women have it worse in these cultures.
Honour culture of any sort is a sprial into a death cult that will swallow society.
It's just that our culture has laxer consequences for unacceptable behaviour and less expectations of personal responsibility.
What constitutes worse is a matter of opinion (a.k.a. norm), in US culture women can have their rights and access to healthcare taken away without consequence to the oppressor.
Even in matters of personal honor, the rapist-in-chief famously has little to no consequences for besmirching his own and others' honor, exemplifying many other such cases.
Harakiri and shunning can be argued as better mechanisms to protect women.
It's just different solutions optimising for different outcomes. And many solutions differing from our own have shown success for certain goals, be it US, China, Islam, Catholicism, Roman or Aztec.
You aren't wrong but also, maybe I'm some kind of out of control woke feminist, but I don't think a man should be expected to let himself die just because the ship he's on is sinking. Yeah children and an accompanying parent first of course, but if you aren't sentencing a child to death or parentlessness yeah, follow the evacuation instructions and live. Hell we should treat you well afterwards because that sounds really traumatic.
Honor culture often demands suffering for stupid reasons. Our culture is too far in the other direction where honorless assholes face no consequences or shame, but we shouldn't be expecting death for the dishonorable.
You aren't wrong but also, maybe I'm some kind of out of control woke feminist, but I don't think a man should be expected to let himself die just because the ship he's on is sinking.
Clearly you don't understand what it is to be a MAN
To be a MAN is to DIE at the FIRST OPPORTUNITY and anyone who says otherwise is a PANSY and a PANTYWAIST and probably a POINDEXTER as well!
I happen to share your perspective, but I find it hard to argue that their stupid reasons are better or worse than our stupid reasons for our accepted suffering.
My take is that humans have solved for stability and safety for many thousands of years and found several good enough solutions, typically well adapted to a slightly out of date situation.
17 Comments
PugJesus@piefed.social · 91 pts · 346d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masabumi_Hosono
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 88 pts · 346d
He wasn't even a crewman, why the fuck would he have any ridiculous expectation to go down with the ship?
HikingVet@lemmy.ca · 58 pts · 346d
Honour culture is fucked. It's just peer pressure codified, and with the exception that if you lose your honour as a man you should commit suicide or be ostracized to the point that death may have been a mercy. Women have it worse in these cultures.
Honour culture of any sort is a sprial into a death cult that will swallow society.
Brainsploosh@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 346d
All culture is peer pressure.
It's just that our culture has laxer consequences for unacceptable behaviour and less expectations of personal responsibility.
What constitutes worse is a matter of opinion (a.k.a. norm), in US culture women can have their rights and access to healthcare taken away without consequence to the oppressor.
Even in matters of personal honor, the rapist-in-chief famously has little to no consequences for besmirching his own and others' honor, exemplifying many other such cases.
Harakiri and shunning can be argued as better mechanisms to protect women.
It's just different solutions optimising for different outcomes. And many solutions differing from our own have shown success for certain goals, be it US, China, Islam, Catholicism, Roman or Aztec.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 346d
You aren't wrong but also, maybe I'm some kind of out of control woke feminist, but I don't think a man should be expected to let himself die just because the ship he's on is sinking. Yeah children and an accompanying parent first of course, but if you aren't sentencing a child to death or parentlessness yeah, follow the evacuation instructions and live. Hell we should treat you well afterwards because that sounds really traumatic.
Honor culture often demands suffering for stupid reasons. Our culture is too far in the other direction where honorless assholes face no consequences or shame, but we shouldn't be expecting death for the dishonorable.
PugJesus@piefed.social · 4 pts · 345d
Clearly you don't understand what it is to be a MAN
To be a MAN is to DIE at the FIRST OPPORTUNITY and anyone who says otherwise is a PANSY and a PANTYWAIST and probably a POINDEXTER as well!
Brainsploosh@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 345d
I happen to share your perspective, but I find it hard to argue that their stupid reasons are better or worse than our stupid reasons for our accepted suffering.
My take is that humans have solved for stability and safety for many thousands of years and found several good enough solutions, typically well adapted to a slightly out of date situation.
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de · 27 pts · 346d
Maybe some kind of "you should have saved others instead of yourself" kinda bullshit.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 346d
I guess they didn't get the "put on your own mask before helping others" speech back then...
drolex@sopuli.xyz · 9 pts · 346d
Yeah yeah. Look what this survivor of some human experiences has to say, instead of being dead. Poser.
the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 346d
I would also decide to save my self. Dying for honor is something that morons do.
july@leminal.space · 15 pts · 346d
Japan what is wrong with u
PugJesus@piefed.social · 7 pts · 345d
On one hand, Meiji-era Japan had some serious fucking cultural issues.
On the other hand, many Western male survivors of the Titanic were shamed as well.
The past is fucked up.
aeronmelon@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 346d
Yay, Empire!
TwoBeeSan@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 346d
And his son made some pretty fucking fire electronic music
TheBat@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 346d
acockworkorange@mander.xyz · 16 pts · 346d
In that water, it wouldn't matter.
grrgyle@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 345d
This kind of culture is why the part where they were like "no one dies" in Godzilla Zero was so great.