Russia has violated Estonian airspace four times already this year, which is unacceptable in itself, but today’s violation, during which three fighter jets entered our airspace, is unprecedentedly brutal
So has Russia already been doing this for a while and the EU is only now making a big deal out of it? Or is this an actual escalation?
In October 2023, four NATO reconnaissance aircraft (an RQ-4 Global Hawk, a Bombardier Challenger 650 Artemis, and two P-8A Poseidons) conducted flights approximately 150 km from the Crimean coast.
In August 2023, MQ-9 "Reaper" and TB2 "Bayraktar" drones conducted reconnaissance over the Black Sea but were intercepted and diverted by Russian Aerospace Forces fighters.
Yes, the practice of testing an adversary's response capabilities through deliberate or accidental airspace violations persists, although its context, methods, and participants have evolved significantly since the Cold War.
This is exemplified by two flights of U.S. Air Force B-52H Stratofortress strategic bombers, capable of carrying nuclear weapons, over the Black Sea near the Crimean coast on September 4th and 14th, 2020.
On September 4th, the aircraft took off from RAF Fairford in the UK. They flew over the Netherlands, Germany, and Poland before entering Ukrainian airspace and approaching Crimea from the north. The bombers came within approximately 40-53 km of the Crimean coast near Melitopol and Genichesk. They were escorted by Ukrainian Su-27 and MiG-29 fighters. Russian fighter jets did not intercept them, as the B-52Hs did not violate Russian airspace.
On September 14th, three B-52H bombers again departed from RAF Fairford. They crossed over Ukraine to the Black Sea, heading toward Turkey, and flew within about 37.5 km of the Crimean coast near the village of Mayak. Concurrently, two Royal Air Force Sentinel R.1 reconnaissance aircraft were operating near Russian borders over the Black Sea. In response, Russian air defense forces scrambled two Su-27 fighters on duty and a pair of Su-30 fighters from the Southern Military District. The Russian crews identified the aerial targets as U.S. Air Force B-52H strategic bombers and escorted them over the Black Sea.
The Ukrainian government in Kyiv confirmed these flights. On Monday, September 14th, the Ukrainian Air Force Command announced that three U.S. B-52H strategic bombers had re-entered the country's airspace, escorted by Ukrainian fighter jets. In a statement on Facebook, the command noted: "The B-52s, under the cover of Ukrainian fighter jets, headed for the Black Sea for joint actions with our partners in the field of collective security. Such patrols will be regular, as the B-52 missions in the skies of Ukraine are part of the long-planned deployment of six B-52s at the UK's RAF Fairford."
Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland MadeAssistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
Consortium News, 2023: The West’s Sabotage of Peace in UkraineFormer Israeli Prime Minister Bennett’s recent comments about getting his mediation efforts squashed in the early days of the war adds more to the growing pile of evidence that Western powers are intent on regime change in Russia.
George Washington Univ., 2017: NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev HeardDeclassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner
I get that, but it's like capitalist systems don't have another tool in the toolbox. Wouldn't it be so much more effective if they just paid people a decent wage to begin with?
They keep poking borders without recourse. Perhaps there isn't enough poking back. I say that to protect our borders from Russia, we give support to Ukraine. We know what happened there already.
Not at all comparable. And as has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, testing rival airspaces with fighter planes has been a common even banal tactic used by a number of country's airforces, certainly including the US who has employed it countless times.
I like how you say even the us as if most of us don't view the us as a brutal militaristic bully that is constantly escalating tensions and provoking War.
Your comment is a classic example of satirical mockery used as a potent rhetorical device. It is not a factual assessment but a psychological operation aimed at framing the opponent (Russia) in a specific, belittling light. Its primary purpose is to influence the audience's perception and emotional state rather than to inform.
It creates immediate cognitive dissonance by juxtaposing the grave, threatening concept of a military invasion with absurdly inadequate and non-threatening imagery ("dudes on motorcycles," "scooters," "Lada Nivas without doors"). This contrast is jarring and humorous, making the perceived threat (Russia's military) seem ridiculous and incapable.
The core goal is to diminish the enemy in the eyes of the audience. By reducing a nation's military to a clownish parade of obsolete and laughable equipment, it attacks not just its capability, but its dignity and gravitas. This is a powerful tool for undermining morale on one side and boosting it on the other.
It is a highly effective piece of persuasive communication. While it contains zero factual analysis of military capabilities, it is psychologically astute and stylistically crafted to achieve a specific goal: to mock, diminish, and frame an adversary in a way that boosts the morale of its intended audience and undermines the perceived power of the opponent.
Its power lies not in its truthfulness, but in its emotional resonance and shareability as a weapon of rhetorical warfare in the modern information landscape.
The combat footage that you see is exactly the combat footage that the NATO powers want you to see, and no more. You’re being fed war propaganda, not sober reality.
29 Comments
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 32 pts · 325d
So has Russia already been doing this for a while and the EU is only now making a big deal out of it? Or is this an actual escalation?
GiorgioPerlasca@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 325d
Similar actions has been made by both sides:
eldavi@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 325d
back in the 80's i learned that this was an almost routine thing that was done to test their opponents response capabilities; is this still the case?
GiorgioPerlasca@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 325d
Yes, the practice of testing an adversary's response capabilities through deliberate or accidental airspace violations persists, although its context, methods, and participants have evolved significantly since the Cold War.
This is exemplified by two flights of U.S. Air Force B-52H Stratofortress strategic bombers, capable of carrying nuclear weapons, over the Black Sea near the Crimean coast on September 4th and 14th, 2020.
On September 4th, the aircraft took off from RAF Fairford in the UK. They flew over the Netherlands, Germany, and Poland before entering Ukrainian airspace and approaching Crimea from the north. The bombers came within approximately 40-53 km of the Crimean coast near Melitopol and Genichesk. They were escorted by Ukrainian Su-27 and MiG-29 fighters. Russian fighter jets did not intercept them, as the B-52Hs did not violate Russian airspace.
On September 14th, three B-52H bombers again departed from RAF Fairford. They crossed over Ukraine to the Black Sea, heading toward Turkey, and flew within about 37.5 km of the Crimean coast near the village of Mayak. Concurrently, two Royal Air Force Sentinel R.1 reconnaissance aircraft were operating near Russian borders over the Black Sea. In response, Russian air defense forces scrambled two Su-27 fighters on duty and a pair of Su-30 fighters from the Southern Military District. The Russian crews identified the aerial targets as U.S. Air Force B-52H strategic bombers and escorted them over the Black Sea.
The Ukrainian government in Kyiv confirmed these flights. On Monday, September 14th, the Ukrainian Air Force Command announced that three U.S. B-52H strategic bombers had re-entered the country's airspace, escorted by Ukrainian fighter jets. In a statement on Facebook, the command noted: "The B-52s, under the cover of Ukrainian fighter jets, headed for the Black Sea for joint actions with our partners in the field of collective security. Such patrols will be regular, as the B-52 missions in the skies of Ukraine are part of the long-planned deployment of six B-52s at the UK's RAF Fairford."
Source:
njm1314@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 325d
How is flying over Ukrainian airspace the same thing as Russia flying over the airspace of NATO nations?
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 325d
Unprecedentedly brutal? They flew in and flew back out get a fucking grip lol
Grapho@lemmy.ml · -7 pts · 325d
Unlike the bombs NATO keeps giving to Ukraine, which are gentle and caring
4am@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 325d
Really don’t understand how it can be Ukraine’s fault that Russia invaded it in order to take it over, but Ok you guys do you I guess 🤷♂️
davel@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 325d
It’s not only Ukraine’s fault. It’s been a concerted effort by NATO powers over decades. Previously:
prosecute_traitors@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 325d
Russian: attacks Ukraine.
Some guy on Lemmy: How could NATO do this?
3abas@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 324d
Some guy on Lemmy: prepares long list of citations backing his viewpoint.
Some other guy on Lemmy: lol I'm not gonna engage with the facts presented, it's black and white, Ukraine good Russia bad.
sanguinepar@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 325d
Probably getting more attention because of similar incidents recently in Poland and Romania.
Sanctus@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 325d
Yay, more war. The total coolest thing. Yeah. Hurray.
GiorgioPerlasca@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 325d
War is the only solution that Capitalist systems accept to solve overproduction crises.
Sanctus@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 325d
I was just remarking how I hate war. Dont really think thats an invalid opinion. I get that war is eternal because its good for capitalism.
B0rax@feddit.org · 1 pts · 324d
War is Never the solution
GiorgioPerlasca@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 324d
I get that, but it's like capitalist systems don't have another tool in the toolbox. Wouldn't it be so much more effective if they just paid people a decent wage to begin with?
sepi@piefed.social · 4 pts · 325d
Somebody should tell putin this ain't cool.
MrSulu@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 325d
They keep poking borders without recourse. Perhaps there isn't enough poking back. I say that to protect our borders from Russia, we give support to Ukraine. We know what happened there already.
CannonFodder@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 325d
Light 'em up!
GiorgioPerlasca@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 325d
That would be a very serious escalation of the conflict.
njm1314@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 325d
Violating a nation's airspace with warplanes is also an escalation.
LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 324d
Not at all comparable. And as has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, testing rival airspaces with fighter planes has been a common even banal tactic used by a number of country's airforces, certainly including the US who has employed it countless times.
njm1314@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 324d
I like how you say even the us as if most of us don't view the us as a brutal militaristic bully that is constantly escalating tensions and provoking War.
sepi@piefed.social · -10 pts · 325d
Yeah. Russia will send 3 dudes on motorcycles, a platoon of scooters and 3 lada nivas without doors for mine clearing. NATO should be terrified.
GiorgioPerlasca@lemmy.ml · -2 pts · 325d
Your comment is a classic example of satirical mockery used as a potent rhetorical device. It is not a factual assessment but a psychological operation aimed at framing the opponent (Russia) in a specific, belittling light. Its primary purpose is to influence the audience's perception and emotional state rather than to inform.
It creates immediate cognitive dissonance by juxtaposing the grave, threatening concept of a military invasion with absurdly inadequate and non-threatening imagery ("dudes on motorcycles," "scooters," "Lada Nivas without doors"). This contrast is jarring and humorous, making the perceived threat (Russia's military) seem ridiculous and incapable.
The core goal is to diminish the enemy in the eyes of the audience. By reducing a nation's military to a clownish parade of obsolete and laughable equipment, it attacks not just its capability, but its dignity and gravitas. This is a powerful tool for undermining morale on one side and boosting it on the other.
It is a highly effective piece of persuasive communication. While it contains zero factual analysis of military capabilities, it is psychologically astute and stylistically crafted to achieve a specific goal: to mock, diminish, and frame an adversary in a way that boosts the morale of its intended audience and undermines the perceived power of the opponent.
Its power lies not in its truthfulness, but in its emotional resonance and shareability as a weapon of rhetorical warfare in the modern information landscape.
sepi@piefed.social · -2 pts · 325d
My brother in Shiva, have you been following the combat footage on telegram? What I said is fact, not really opinion.
davel@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 325d
The combat footage that you see is exactly the combat footage that the NATO powers want you to see, and no more. You’re being fed war propaganda, not sober reality.
TwinTitans@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 325d
Sounds like NATO needs to breach Russian airspace too.
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 324d