Reminds me of the double standard with teacher sexual abuse. Male teacher abuses student, pedophile. Female teacher abuses student, "wish I was him" (unless she was deemed ugly, and even then).
Things don't change much, although it doesn't help when people forget men can be victimized, too.
And the equally terrible victims blaming for teens; "girl must have been asking for it, what a slut" vs "bOyS cAnT bE rApEd because they enjoy it, good for him"
Reminds me of the double standard with teacher sexual abuse. Male teacher abuses student, pedophile. Female teacher abuses student, “wish I was him”
That was a transition from the 70s/80s to the 90s/00s. Sexy teenage girl desperate to hook up with the handsome clueless professor was a chronic trope of GenX media. Then social mores changed and the male teacher became an insidious predator, rather than a clueless schmuck. But we still wanted to tell the old story, so it was time for the sexy teenage boy to be Hot For Teacher instead.
The morality play in both instances teaches us that chastity is a form of maturity and responsibility, while horniness is comic relief. But neither really lay out the idea of consent or the bureaucratic power of a teacher over a student. Everything is played up for drama or for laughs. A parent's concern is merely a trope to be inserted to advance the story. Scandal is about raising tension, not defining proper behavior. The taboo exists to be broken in order to titillate the audience.
Iceland probably has the best track record. Their culture, size, location, etc just add up to make a country where workers rights, freedom of speech and equality is very good.
I mean, they do have that app specifically to check for relation. I can imagine there are some fun games that can be played while you're out at a party. "Hey, dude, check out that dude over there. Bet you I can get his number."
"You're on, and I'll bet he's within four degrees of cosanguinity."
Yeah thats why i also listed size. It really is a unique country that maybe more places should take notes from... but its hard to implement something similar because their history and location also causes this situation.
noun
a violent attack
:::
::: spoiler legal definition
In common law
An attempt with force or violence to do a corporal injury to another; may consist of any act tending to such corporal injury, accompanied with such circumstances as denotes at the time an intention, coupled with present ability, of using actual violence against the person.
or "reasonable apprehension of the immediate application of force to the victim".
:::
No.
“Assault” varies in definition by jurisdiction and circumstance. Pulling a conversation about sexual assault into the weeds is, frankly, a strange move, but go on with your bait.
Definitions predominantly involve violence, physical force, or reasonable & immediate expectation of it.
I'm not a big fan of distorting ideas with loaded language: the bait was theirs.
Being sexually harassed by two people who refuse to respect boundaries while peers, friends, and school administrators look on and laugh was the “comically terrible” situation in 2006.
The awkwardness of high school sexuality played up for comic effect was generally a setup to a morality tail in the closing arc, where the producers punish the sluts/horn-dogs and reward the chaste conservative trads.
Given the content of this meme, nothing has changed
TV in the '00s was Britney Spears waggling her butt and saying "Why do boys keep chasing me?! I just want to have a nice Christian marriage, but I'm being assaulted by these savage infidels who think thigh-high school girl outfits are sexy!!! Oh, whoa is me!"
TV in the '20s is Zendaya luring two tennis playing men into kissing one another while she jills it in a corner.
Bieber's first album didn't release until 2010. This look was just fairly ubiquitous among teens and 20s hearthrobs in the 2000s. Note the boot cut jeans that you would never catch Bieber wearing.
cna confirm. I had the hairstyle a couple years before we ever heard of Bieber, after that happened the comments were so constant I grew it even longer lol
Drake was a victim of sexual assault by his acting coach during his time at Nickelodeon. Dan Schneider was also the creator and producer of the show. There’s a Netflix documentary on how bad things got.
"Hurt people hurt people" is a common saying for a reason; dealing with trauma is difficult and not dealing with it often leads to problems.
That's not to say that victims always become victimizers, it's to say that the cycle of violence often begins with violence.
I didn't suggest that people who are abused tend to go down this path, I'm saying of those that abuse others, they themselves were likely abused.
I don't know the percentage, but hypothetically if 2% of people abused go on to abuse others, this would be true without even saying anything about 98% of abused people.
How the fuck was he charged with 11 different sex crimes against a child and he only served 16 months? Motherfucker should have been thrown in jail for life. Disgusting.
As a middle schooler, I thought the idea of nonconsensual harassment was pretty hot. I still feel that way, but I thought it back then too.
Still don't think such should be tolerated just because I liked it. Also, when there's a credible threat vs minimal in-school harassment, its a lot scarier (although its still hot).
I remember being in gym class, secondary school a few decades ago and these two sexually prolific girls for lack of a better term, moderately popular, who would spend gym classes flirting and basically sexually molesting? (Idk what term to use when clothes are on) this nerdy kid most days in gym. Teacher only seemed to laugh when he noticed.
They would feel him up and tell him his balls were small or penis was crooked. It was fucked up.
As someone who went through much less bad bullying, it's fucked up. What do you even do? Punch back? That works for same-sex bullies, but if you hit a girl hard enough to be afraid of you/have some respect for you, you're the bad guy for hitting a girl. Ignore it? Contrary to popular belief, that makes bullies bolder, because they get to have fun without consequences. The only thing that kind of worked was avoiding bullies, and if you can't, wait until there are no witnesses around, and then make sure to get the first good punch in, so that they'd think twice next time. Kids fucking suck. Man, am I happy to not be in school any more.
reminds me when I was in fifth or six grade and two girls a grade or two older than me would constantly find me in the hallways between classes, corner me, and either start hitting on me, or say flirty shit about me to each other just loud enough for me to hear but quiet enough that it left me wondering if they were doing it intentionally.
I didn't like it and I wanted it to stop, but I remember feeling really conflicted about wanting to do anything about it because it was also kinda validating at the same time, and I was definitely a weird kid that needed validation at the time. Honestly can't remember too much more about it, genuinely not sure if I spoke up or not at this point.
But to this day if I hear some people speaking to each other in hushed tones and giggling and shit, it can still bring me back to that feeling of not being sure if some other people are talking about and laughing at me.
I wonder if this is a common experience because I've had basically the exact same thing happen to me. It's like it feels inauthentic but also they're saying nice stuff that no one ever does so I don't really want to tell them to stop...
That's what makes it so fucked up, like we were really eager to feel validated that we let it come from insincere, weaponized places, and that's kinda the point of it
Yeah worst part is it makes you unsure later if people are just pretending or not. In college I wouldn't trust people weren't just pretending to like being around me as a joke :/ takes a while of actually being appreciated to get over it..
This was kind of me in early high school. There was this badass goth chick who, looking back, was very likely "flirting" with me quite a bit. Admittedly, I had my own absurd style that definitely had shades of goth too.
I recall she bit my arm so hard she drew blood... on more than one occasion. I absolutely had a thing for her so I didn't mind. She was a grade or two older and had a boyfriend who was either from another town, dropped out, or already graduated. I'd never met or seen him though. Me and her did hang out a few times in random secluded places after school or during down time but nothing romantic ever happened - just talking.
Looking back on it as a more mature adult, and vaguely recalling her stories, I am pretty sure she had a fucked up childhood and home life. I wouldn't be surprised if the boyfriend situation was more fucked up than I realized.
Shortly after graduating high school, I met some people who actually knew the guy (he had allegedly been their dealer a few years prior lol) and apparently I looked a lot like him, only I was a few inches taller and less skinny. The number of times I was mistaken for him was crazy. I guess she had a type? I hope she's doing ok.
89 Comments
Telodzrum@lemmy.world · 267 pts · 355d
Mubelotix@jlai.lu · 100 pts · 355d
I felt something against your comment until I eventually realized you were right
primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus · 31 pts · 355d
The greatest sin of all. You find the tree, I'll buy the rope.
taiyang@lemmy.world · 91 pts · 355d
Reminds me of the double standard with teacher sexual abuse. Male teacher abuses student, pedophile. Female teacher abuses student, "wish I was him" (unless she was deemed ugly, and even then).
Things don't change much, although it doesn't help when people forget men can be victimized, too.
helpImTrappedOnline@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 355d
And the equally terrible victims blaming for teens; "girl must have been asking for it, what a slut" vs "bOyS cAnT bE rApEd because they enjoy it, good for him"
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 354d
That was a transition from the 70s/80s to the 90s/00s. Sexy teenage girl desperate to hook up with the handsome clueless professor was a chronic trope of GenX media. Then social mores changed and the male teacher became an insidious predator, rather than a clueless schmuck. But we still wanted to tell the old story, so it was time for the sexy teenage boy to be Hot For Teacher instead.
The morality play in both instances teaches us that chastity is a form of maturity and responsibility, while horniness is comic relief. But neither really lay out the idea of consent or the bureaucratic power of a teacher over a student. Everything is played up for drama or for laughs. A parent's concern is merely a trope to be inserted to advance the story. Scandal is about raising tension, not defining proper behavior. The taboo exists to be broken in order to titillate the audience.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · -2 pts · 353d
that's just facts
buttnugget@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 353d
It is a fact. That don’t make it right. We were kids.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · 0 pts · 353d
Still, facts don't change & ignoring them facts is eyeroll-inducing.
Gullible@sh.itjust.works · 31 pts · 355d
I occasionally wonder whether this is universal. Are there any countries that generally recognize sexual assault regardless of circumstance or sex?
AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip · 25 pts · 355d
Iceland probably has the best track record. Their culture, size, location, etc just add up to make a country where workers rights, freedom of speech and equality is very good.
greygore@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 355d
Plus with almost everyone being related, men don't have to play that “imagine it was your sister or daughter” game to generate empathy for women. /s
burntbacon@discuss.tchncs.de · 13 pts · 354d
I mean, they do have that app specifically to check for relation. I can imagine there are some fun games that can be played while you're out at a party. "Hey, dude, check out that dude over there. Bet you I can get his number."
"You're on, and I'll bet he's within four degrees of cosanguinity."
AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 354d
Yeah thats why i also listed size. It really is a unique country that maybe more places should take notes from... but its hard to implement something similar because their history and location also causes this situation.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · -3 pts · 353d
We're calling intimidation/harassment assault now? That's histrionic.
buttnugget@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 353d
Assault as opposed to battery.
Gullible@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 353d
Well, yes. Sexual assault is a catch all.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · 1 pts · 353d
::: spoiler dictionary entry
or "reasonable apprehension of the immediate application of force to the victim". ::: No.
Gullible@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 353d
“Assault” varies in definition by jurisdiction and circumstance. Pulling a conversation about sexual assault into the weeds is, frankly, a strange move, but go on with your bait.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · 0 pts · 353d
Definitions predominantly involve violence, physical force, or reasonable & immediate expectation of it. I'm not a big fan of distorting ideas with loaded language: the bait was theirs.
Gullible@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 353d
I think you might need to learn a bit about body language and context. Frankly, this entire conversation has made me fairly uncomfortable, so I’m out
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 354d
The awkwardness of high school sexuality played up for comic effect was generally a setup to a morality tail in the closing arc, where the producers punish the sluts/horn-dogs and reward the chaste conservative trads.
TV in the '00s was Britney Spears waggling her butt and saying "Why do boys keep chasing me?! I just want to have a nice Christian marriage, but I'm being assaulted by these savage infidels who think thigh-high school girl outfits are sexy!!! Oh, whoa is me!"
TV in the '20s is Zendaya luring two tennis playing men into kissing one another while she jills it in a corner.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · 5 pts · 353d
woe?
gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de · 0 pts · 353d
Telodzrum@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 353d
But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 354d
I think you’re taking the drake and Josh memes too seriously
radiohead37@lemmy.world · -50 pts · 355d
You must be fun at parties
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 51 pts · 355d
Yeah the pro rapey types are much more fun at parties.... Don't fret, there are plenty of them still.
MellowYellow13@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 353d
Youre def not
simplejack@lemmy.world · 87 pts · 355d
That Bieber cut was the broccoli top of its day.
s@piefed.world · 64 pts · 355d
Bieber hair is so default man that it was the second hair piece Lego ever made, back in 1979. Back then, it was called Beatles hair.
simplejack@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 355d
Difference is that this thing added a ton of hairspray to make it look like you were standing next to a fan.
Rothe@piefed.social · 2 pts · 354d
They are not comparable at all.
ThunderWhiskers@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 355d
Bieber's first album didn't release until 2010. This look was just fairly ubiquitous among teens and 20s hearthrobs in the 2000s. Note the boot cut jeans that you would never catch Bieber wearing.
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 354d
cna confirm. I had the hairstyle a couple years before we ever heard of Bieber, after that happened the comments were so constant I grew it even longer lol
also had the boot cuts
butwhyishischinabook@piefed.social · 2 pts · 354d
Yeah it's not a Bieber unless it swoops to one side. This is just the default haircut of the 2000s lol
markovs_gun@lemmy.world · 54 pts · 355d
As someone who lived through 2006, I can assure you I would have enjoyed being in this situation then just as much as I would now, possibly more.
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 354d
If you lived through 2006 then you're too old to enjoy having a couple of highschool goths fawn over you 🚔👮♂️🫵
markovs_gun@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 354d
I meant age appropriate goth baddies :(
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 353d
I figured, I was being silly 😛
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 354d
Goths exist after high school.
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca · -2 pts · 353d
But this situation doesn't 😏
anotherspinelessdem@lemmy.ml · 49 pts · 355d
Man this hits different when you know what Drake was going through at that time
Akasazh@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 355d
For those who don't... care to enlighten us?
CluckN@lemmy.world · 75 pts · 355d
Drake was a victim of sexual assault by his acting coach during his time at Nickelodeon. Dan Schneider was also the creator and producer of the show. There’s a Netflix documentary on how bad things got.
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 354d
Statick@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 354d
Yes and no. A lot of the allegations were found to be false.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2024/04/04/drake-bell-pleaded-guilty-child-endangerment-explanation/73201463007/
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 354d
jj4211@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 354d
Abusers often are "paying forward" abuse they suffered.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · -13 pts · 354d
Nice demonizing of survivors based on some shit you read once and gave no further thought to
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 354d
"Hurt people hurt people" is a common saying for a reason; dealing with trauma is difficult and not dealing with it often leads to problems.
That's not to say that victims always become victimizers, it's to say that the cycle of violence often begins with violence.
buttnugget@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 353d
According to domestic violence expert Lundy Bancroft, it’s about 50/50. So as far as we know, there is no correlation.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · -3 pts · 354d
Oh wow, common sayings, the bastion of fact.
jj4211@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 354d
I didn't suggest that people who are abused tend to go down this path, I'm saying of those that abuse others, they themselves were likely abused.
I don't know the percentage, but hypothetically if 2% of people abused go on to abuse others, this would be true without even saying anything about 98% of abused people.
Randomgal@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 354d
This is statistics my guy. It doesn't mean they are read people. It means they need help.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 1 pts · 353d
I'm waiting for your statistics fam, as well as your explanation of why you think you should imply survivors are dangerous from them.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · -2 pts · 354d
Okay bud, link those statistics.
Akasazh@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 354d
Oh wow, haven't read about any of that. I'm not that great in celeb details, but this one is a big one.
anotherspinelessdem@lemmy.ml · 22 pts · 355d
Per Quiet on Set, at roughly that time in his life he was
::: spoiler CW: CSA being regularly raped and otherwise abused by Dialogue Coach Brian Peck who worked for Nickelodeon at the time
Wikipedia: Drake Bell
Wikipedia: Brian Peck
Wikipedia: Quiet on Set :::
Akasazh@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 354d
I only knew he was regarded as a bit of a dick himself, never heard about this all. Ty
Sweetpeaches69@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 354d
How the fuck was he charged with 11 different sex crimes against a child and he only served 16 months? Motherfucker should have been thrown in jail for life. Disgusting.
anotherspinelessdem@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 354d
Because Hollywood has a lot of parallels with the Catholic Church
EmpathicVagrant@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 354d
Any relation to Josh?
And correspondance with John Wayne Gacey is wild, he even hung one of his paintings according to the wiki.
anotherspinelessdem@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 354d
Indeed he did, but no relation to Josh.
ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com · 46 pts · 355d
WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com · 26 pts · 355d
As a middle schooler, I thought the idea of nonconsensual harassment was pretty hot. I still feel that way, but I thought it back then too.
Still don't think such should be tolerated just because I liked it. Also, when there's a credible threat vs minimal in-school harassment, its a lot scarier (although its still hot).
LH0ezVT@sh.itjust.works · 34 pts · 355d
...then I grew up, and realized you can have consensual harassment.
WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com · 31 pts · 355d
That would mean having to do things like be honest with your feelings and communicate with people.
RickyRigatoni@retrolemmy.com · 8 pts · 354d
I'd rather die.
BakerBagel@midwest.social · 3 pts · 355d
Yeah, i have worked at restaurants. Server staff are always consentually harassing each other
Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 354d
What if they were just doing it to make fun?
I remember being in gym class, secondary school a few decades ago and these two sexually prolific girls for lack of a better term, moderately popular, who would spend gym classes flirting and basically sexually molesting? (Idk what term to use when clothes are on) this nerdy kid most days in gym. Teacher only seemed to laugh when he noticed.
They would feel him up and tell him his balls were small or penis was crooked. It was fucked up.
ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com · 11 pts · 354d
LH0ezVT@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 354d
As someone who went through much less bad bullying, it's fucked up. What do you even do? Punch back? That works for same-sex bullies, but if you hit a girl hard enough to be afraid of you/have some respect for you, you're the bad guy for hitting a girl. Ignore it? Contrary to popular belief, that makes bullies bolder, because they get to have fun without consequences. The only thing that kind of worked was avoiding bullies, and if you can't, wait until there are no witnesses around, and then make sure to get the first good punch in, so that they'd think twice next time. Kids fucking suck. Man, am I happy to not be in school any more.
socsa@piefed.social · 3 pts · 354d
The correct answer is to get good at math, go to college and study engineering, land a six figure job, and then circle back around and fuck her dad.
LH0ezVT@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 354d
Been there, done that, decided that I won't slave away my remaining time on this earth in search of the mythical six figure engineering job
:)Taleya@aussie.zone · 31 pts · 354d
They fear the pegging. Cowards
HulkSmashBurgers@reddthat.com · 8 pts · 354d
Totally his loss.
alekwithak@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 355d
It's like that movie She's Out of My League where we're supposed to buy Krysten Ritter as the ugly friend.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 354d
No THANK YOU 🤮
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca · 20 pts · 354d
Because girls have cooties. Didn't you know this???
RagingRobot@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 354d
I like cooties ;)
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 19 pts · 354d
I mean, looking at the guy here this tracks with what high school was like in my day. Preppies and Goths were sworn enemies.
Mediocre_Bard@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 354d
noxypaws@pawb.social · 13 pts · 353d
reminds me when I was in fifth or six grade and two girls a grade or two older than me would constantly find me in the hallways between classes, corner me, and either start hitting on me, or say flirty shit about me to each other just loud enough for me to hear but quiet enough that it left me wondering if they were doing it intentionally.
I didn't like it and I wanted it to stop, but I remember feeling really conflicted about wanting to do anything about it because it was also kinda validating at the same time, and I was definitely a weird kid that needed validation at the time. Honestly can't remember too much more about it, genuinely not sure if I spoke up or not at this point.
But to this day if I hear some people speaking to each other in hushed tones and giggling and shit, it can still bring me back to that feeling of not being sure if some other people are talking about and laughing at me.
Axolotl_cpp@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 353d
Guys remember: don't flirt like those girls otherwise you will give them scars
starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 353d
I wonder if this is a common experience because I've had basically the exact same thing happen to me. It's like it feels inauthentic but also they're saying nice stuff that no one ever does so I don't really want to tell them to stop...
noxypaws@pawb.social · 2 pts · 353d
That's what makes it so fucked up, like we were really eager to feel validated that we let it come from insincere, weaponized places, and that's kinda the point of it
starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 351d
Yeah worst part is it makes you unsure later if people are just pretending or not. In college I wouldn't trust people weren't just pretending to like being around me as a joke :/ takes a while of actually being appreciated to get over it..
theparadox@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 354d
This was kind of me in early high school. There was this badass goth chick who, looking back, was very likely "flirting" with me quite a bit. Admittedly, I had my own absurd style that definitely had shades of goth too.
I recall she bit my arm so hard she drew blood... on more than one occasion. I absolutely had a thing for her so I didn't mind. She was a grade or two older and had a boyfriend who was either from another town, dropped out, or already graduated. I'd never met or seen him though. Me and her did hang out a few times in random secluded places after school or during down time but nothing romantic ever happened - just talking.
Looking back on it as a more mature adult, and vaguely recalling her stories, I am pretty sure she had a fucked up childhood and home life. I wouldn't be surprised if the boyfriend situation was more fucked up than I realized.
Shortly after graduating high school, I met some people who actually knew the guy (he had allegedly been their dealer a few years prior lol) and apparently I looked a lot like him, only I was a few inches taller and less skinny. The number of times I was mistaken for him was crazy. I guess she had a type? I hope she's doing ok.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 354d
NGL I've had to fight off some thirsty ladies before, it's disgusting when they just can't take a hint.
daggermoon@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 354d
bennypr0fane@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 353d
Which series was this? Asking for a friend.
RedFrank24@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 353d
What would I even SAY to goth baddies?
"Hey do you like tabletop? I do, I like playing Barbarians because it makes me feel strong"
sirico@feddit.uk · -13 pts · 355d
Both genders 9/10 they were trendies about 6 months ago with 0 personality. You didn't miss out