If we agree to entertain his lie for a moment, and the further implication that the people supposedly supplying her with drugs were responsible for her OD, doesn't that same logic make gun dealers responsible for shootings?
If we consider the gun ‘attached’ to the handler, would that put the blame back on the person? Or maybe we ought to consider the handler as part of the gun itself.
Neither the gun alone nor the person alone would have killed. Therefore, the dangerous thing is the COMBINATION of gun + person. In conclusion, we shouldn’t ban guns, just make it illegal for people to interact with them in any way.
Not quite in that form, but targeting restrictions on ammunition moreso than the guns themselves is part of my view on that issue. The country is full of guns already, they last practically forever with maintenance, and at the end of the day they're basically just a sturdy tube with some hardware to set the bullet off, and as such it would be difficult to stop illicit manufacturing (3d printed guns and zip guns come to mind). Bullets are at least consumable, require explosive chemicals to make and a gun won't fire without them. If you make it difficult to acquire large amounts at once, then it doesn't matter as much if a gun is modified to be fully automatic either.
That's fair, it'll also mean that the equivalent of ghost guns will be a sight to see given that making your own smokeless powder is very difficult but making your own black powder is just a pain in the ass (the only component that's easy to restrict can be extracted from human biological waste). And as far as I'm concerned, if you want to make black powder cartridges so much you're willing to process urea into saltpetre go ahead. You aren't getting a modern mass shooting like that
No, because drug dealing in this context is hurting someone to exploit them for profit while gun dealers are performing an important service to their communities. You wouldn't consider a grocery store responsible for someone's obesity because they sold flour.
Blaming Mexicans as a people for the acts of a few? Monstrous and inane. Not a rational thought process for a healthy individual
Stealing drugs from your patients? Monstrous but sympathy-worthy. Opiate addiction is life ruining, and I blame pharmaceutical companies and bodily destructive American work culture for this. I hope she has stayed far away from the medical field since then, for her benefit and for everyone else’s.
Lying about one to cover up the other in order to renew a race war? Just evil.
I think it's sympathy worthy because of the fact she wasn't doing it to spite her patients. She was doing it because she was suffering from an addiction, and addiction makes people do things that they wouldn't normally do.
So it's humanizing his mother and saying she was someone who was caught up in something that was too big for her to control and that is sad.
That doesn't excuse the fact that she raised a piece of shit child, or that she hurt people from her addiction. It just sets all of that to the side to focus on the one specific thing that someone with empathy can sympathize over.
As someone who grew up with a sibling who became an addict, leading them from being just a regular asshole to being downright abusive on top of all of the theft, volatility, and other drug-related issues....
Yeah. Still, it took me some 15 years or so to reach that line of relative forgiveness.
I fully agree with you. I am a recovering addict in a substitution program (my doctors hooked me up with fent matrix patches to control my back pain which i started to abuse), and while i did not steal because medication is cheap where i live, i lied to so many doctors to get my fix and i lied to everyone around me to cover up for my fucked up state. Before, i was pretty much someone who wouldn't have considered going to a doctor and lying to him to get meds - addiction brought out the worst in me.
Because it’s driven by intense desperation. You don’t help addicts by ambushing them, you help them by understanding what’s caused them to be the way that they are and how to break their system of dependence. You can’t advance as a society without being able to break unhealthy cycles. So yes, monstrous but sympathy-worthy
I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but I think even the phrase "be the way that they are" is lacking empathy and looking at it the wrong way. It's not about the way that they are; it's about the way that they are handling the stressors in their life.
You’re digging into my extreme time crunch comment and finding hard nuggets. I assure you, each and every one of them was a kernel of corn. I wasn’t attacking you, I just had 30 seconds to explain addiction counseling to someone without a visible understanding of it.
I don’t mean to sound rude, but I don’t see this conversation going anywhere positive. You’re entirely too upset and I’m entirely too indifferent. If anyone asks, tell them you won this conversation and I’ll corroborate. Here’s an updoot
"If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering [I just made up and is not the reality] of the American people [because, again, – and I cannot stress this enough – I created it and it did not actually happen], then that's what I'm going to do."
Because with morons we are dealing with if they can find one flaw they won’t believe any part of a logically laid out argument.
JD Vance is popular because to stupid insecure men he seems like at the very least an awkward social person, yet they think in a debate he is a “bulldog” that goes after the “facts”.
TLDR: they suck so bad they don’t even know they suck and why
He grew up in Middletown, Ohio. Even if she hadn't been stealing drugs from patients, I know the drug scene there well enough to know plenty of dealers are white. But also the opiate epidemic in the rust belt wasn't some cartel thing, it's simple: the jobs left, nobody had any hope left, and suddenly that injury you got from doing manual labor for years wound up with this new painkiller the doctor was told isn't addictive.
James Donald Bowman is a sad excuse for a human being. I will always remind people of his real name he got from his deadbeat father and the mother he's slandering here. Just to cuck for another asshole named Donald.
Okay, but you can't say that during an election because it's rude and divisive. You're not taking the problem of illegal Mexicans trafficking in double plus illegal drugs seriously, and you shouldn't denigrate a rich man's mother.
if your mom is stealing medication, which it sounds like from a hospital and using it on herself, with no proper diagnosis/condition, its ON HER if she almost dies from it.
FYI, fentanyl is used in US hospitals as the cheapest opiate. Excess OD deaths from fentanyl tend are only ever caused by it being "accidentally present" in another drug. Paying the Taliban to grow opium for US export (they can still prevent local sales) could be a viable path to affordable US healthcare without fentanyl. Much US supply of fentanyl is stolen from legal hospital supplies.
If there was a real national emergency for fentanyl from Canada, a war on hospitals providing 100x the fentanyl that is seized on Canadian border to tax them an extra 25% is going to get them back to using morphine/oxy whatever that costs.
Fentanyl is not the cheapest opiate in US hospitals, and is not used as a substitute for morphine or oxycodone. It's primarily used for anesthesia, where oxycodone/hydrocodone/morphine/hydromorphone are used in the units as pain killers taken orally. Injectable hydromorphone is cheaper and more commonly used for acute pain than fentanyl.
It's part of general anesthesia, along with other drugs such as midazolam, propofol, ketamine, etomidate, etc. It augments anesthesia gases such as sevoflurane/desflurane/isoflurane, though we're getting outside my realm of expertise; I'm not an anesthesiologist so I can't specify why a certain combination of drugs might be used vs another.
And Peter Theil agreed to rig the electio- oops ha ha what I meant was Theil agreed to fund whatever trump wanted if he let this guy take over when he eventually stroked out in a year or two.
67 Comments
Apeman42@lemmy.world · 222 pts · 348d
Let's explore this.
If we agree to entertain his lie for a moment, and the further implication that the people supposedly supplying her with drugs were responsible for her OD, doesn't that same logic make gun dealers responsible for shootings?
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 112 pts · 348d
*gasp*
Logic!
Get ‘em! [*crashing, yelling, trampling noises*]
Battle_Masker@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 26 pts · 348d
Nah, guns don't kill people, just the bullets fired out of them kill. No one very died from a gun itself
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 44 pts · 348d
Anyone beaten to death with the pistol grip or rifle stock would like to have a word with you.
mushroommunk@lemmy.today · 20 pts · 348d
Or stabbed by a bayonet
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 348d
Is that the gun killing you tho? If it's affixed, does it count as the gun or just a knife kill?
grue@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 348d
Spear kill.
village604@adultswim.fan · 2 pts · 348d
I think an attachment would still count as the gun doing it.
laszlopanaflex@piefed.world · 4 pts · 348d
If we consider the gun ‘attached’ to the handler, would that put the blame back on the person? Or maybe we ought to consider the handler as part of the gun itself.
atomicorange@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 348d
Neither the gun alone nor the person alone would have killed. Therefore, the dangerous thing is the COMBINATION of gun + person. In conclusion, we shouldn’t ban guns, just make it illegal for people to interact with them in any way.
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 348d
Or the military personnel shot by misfiring pistols when they drop them.
And surely someone in history has been killed by knocking over a rack of guns and being clobbered.
Damage@feddit.it · 2 pts · 347d
That would require necromancy
someguy3@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 348d
You don't need gun control. You know what you need? We need some bullet control.
CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social · 4 pts · 348d
Not quite in that form, but targeting restrictions on ammunition moreso than the guns themselves is part of my view on that issue. The country is full of guns already, they last practically forever with maintenance, and at the end of the day they're basically just a sturdy tube with some hardware to set the bullet off, and as such it would be difficult to stop illicit manufacturing (3d printed guns and zip guns come to mind). Bullets are at least consumable, require explosive chemicals to make and a gun won't fire without them. If you make it difficult to acquire large amounts at once, then it doesn't matter as much if a gun is modified to be fully automatic either.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 348d
That's fair, it'll also mean that the equivalent of ghost guns will be a sight to see given that making your own smokeless powder is very difficult but making your own black powder is just a pain in the ass (the only component that's easy to restrict can be extracted from human biological waste). And as far as I'm concerned, if you want to make black powder cartridges so much you're willing to process urea into saltpetre go ahead. You aren't getting a modern mass shooting like that
Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 347d
Then it's because of whoever sold the bullets.
Tyrq@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 348d
Let's not bother, not only do they don't care about hypocrisy, double speak is actually their superpower
Kirp123@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 348d
Nah, it says on this piece of paper that it's different.
F_State@midwest.social · -3 pts · 347d
No, because drug dealing in this context is hurting someone to exploit them for profit while gun dealers are performing an important service to their communities. You wouldn't consider a grocery store responsible for someone's obesity because they sold flour.
Gullible@sh.itjust.works · 76 pts · 348d
Blaming Mexicans as a people for the acts of a few? Monstrous and inane. Not a rational thought process for a healthy individual
Stealing drugs from your patients? Monstrous but sympathy-worthy. Opiate addiction is life ruining, and I blame pharmaceutical companies and bodily destructive American work culture for this. I hope she has stayed far away from the medical field since then, for her benefit and for everyone else’s.
Lying about one to cover up the other in order to renew a race war? Just evil.
SpookyLights@lemmy.ca · 14 pts · 348d
bizarroland@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 348d
I think it's sympathy worthy because of the fact she wasn't doing it to spite her patients. She was doing it because she was suffering from an addiction, and addiction makes people do things that they wouldn't normally do.
So it's humanizing his mother and saying she was someone who was caught up in something that was too big for her to control and that is sad.
That doesn't excuse the fact that she raised a piece of shit child, or that she hurt people from her addiction. It just sets all of that to the side to focus on the one specific thing that someone with empathy can sympathize over.
Drusas@fedia.io · 13 pts · 348d
As someone who grew up with a sibling who became an addict, leading them from being just a regular asshole to being downright abusive on top of all of the theft, volatility, and other drug-related issues....
Yeah. Still, it took me some 15 years or so to reach that line of relative forgiveness.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 3 pts · 347d
I fully agree with you. I am a recovering addict in a substitution program (my doctors hooked me up with fent matrix patches to control my back pain which i started to abuse), and while i did not steal because medication is cheap where i live, i lied to so many doctors to get my fix and i lied to everyone around me to cover up for my fucked up state. Before, i was pretty much someone who wouldn't have considered going to a doctor and lying to him to get meds - addiction brought out the worst in me.
SpookyLights@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 348d
Gullible@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 348d
Because it’s driven by intense desperation. You don’t help addicts by ambushing them, you help them by understanding what’s caused them to be the way that they are and how to break their system of dependence. You can’t advance as a society without being able to break unhealthy cycles. So yes, monstrous but sympathy-worthy
etherphon@midwest.social · 7 pts · 348d
Drusas@fedia.io · 2 pts · 348d
I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but I think even the phrase "be the way that they are" is lacking empathy and looking at it the wrong way. It's not about the way that they are; it's about the way that they are handling the stressors in their life.
Gullible@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 348d
I lacked the verbiage to describe what I meant in the 30 seconds I had available to reply. It was just vaguely phrased, but you’re right
SpookyLights@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 348d
Gullible@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 348d
You’re digging into my extreme time crunch comment and finding hard nuggets. I assure you, each and every one of them was a kernel of corn. I wasn’t attacking you, I just had 30 seconds to explain addiction counseling to someone without a visible understanding of it.
SpookyLights@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 348d
Gullible@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 348d
I don’t mean to sound rude, but I don’t see this conversation going anywhere positive. You’re entirely too upset and I’m entirely too indifferent. If anyone asks, tell them you won this conversation and I’ll corroborate. Here’s an updoot
harrys_balzac@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 48 pts · 348d
That's some real hillbilly shit right there.
smeenz@lemmy.nz · 13 pts · 348d
Come listen to my story 'bout a man named Jd
MML@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 348d
Some say his love for couches was strong, some say his lust for couches was strong, the only thing that is certain is he's fucked a sofa or two.
Glytch@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 348d
The song needs to be an elegy.
tomenzgg@midwest.social · 36 pts · 348d
"If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering [I just made up and is not the reality] of the American people [because, again, – and I cannot stress this enough – I created it and it did not actually happen], then that's what I'm going to do."
TheRealKuni@piefed.social · 26 pts · 348d
To be fair, I suspect he’s talking about the heroin after she was fired from her nursing job for stealing drugs.
But her addiction is what almost killed her. The (dubious) nationality of the dealers is irrelevant.
bytesonbike@discuss.online · 16 pts · 348d
Don't MAGA believe all drug users are criminals?
She's a heroin user and get her ass locked up.
Drusas@fedia.io · 8 pts · 348d
Lucky she's not in El Salvador right now.
F_State@midwest.social · 3 pts · 347d
Rush Limbaugh believed that, right up until his opiate addiction became public knowledge, then again after he got clean.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 348d
Why would you be fair?
Kalothar@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 348d
Because with morons we are dealing with if they can find one flaw they won’t believe any part of a logically laid out argument.
JD Vance is popular because to stupid insecure men he seems like at the very least an awkward social person, yet they think in a debate he is a “bulldog” that goes after the “facts”.
TLDR: they suck so bad they don’t even know they suck and why
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 348d
He grew up in Middletown, Ohio. Even if she hadn't been stealing drugs from patients, I know the drug scene there well enough to know plenty of dealers are white. But also the opiate epidemic in the rust belt wasn't some cartel thing, it's simple: the jobs left, nobody had any hope left, and suddenly that injury you got from doing manual labor for years wound up with this new painkiller the doctor was told isn't addictive.
Akasazh@feddit.nl · 20 pts · 347d
James Donald Bowman is a sad excuse for a human being. I will always remind people of his real name he got from his deadbeat father and the mother he's slandering here. Just to cuck for another asshole named Donald.
Join me in deadnaming him!
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 348d
If she was that desperate, odds are good she sucked a few dicks for drugs, too. Surely not news to him, those trailer walls are thin.
Drusas@fedia.io · 6 pts · 348d
That would probably happen after she got caught stealing from patients. Which he may have still been around for--I don't know the details.
smeenz@lemmy.nz · 5 pts · 348d
I wonder who JD's father really is...
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 347d
He's a dead ringer for Rush Limbaugh.
Wispy2891@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 348d
I found the full story here https://crooksandliars.com/2024/07/jd-vance-called-out-over-lie-about-his
someguy3@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 348d
Um, well, did she steal them from Mexican patients?
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 348d
No.
Hikermick@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 348d
Checkmate liberawls!
nagaram@startrek.website · 13 pts · 347d
I'm just saying. She could have totally stole them from Mexicans.
Which would technically not be a lie.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 348d
Okay, but you can't say that during an election because it's rude and divisive. You're not taking the problem of illegal Mexicans trafficking in double plus illegal drugs seriously, and you shouldn't denigrate a rich man's mother.
bizarroland@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 348d
If this is satire, it's written too close to the bone.
Drusas@fedia.io · 1 pts · 348d
So many references make me want to reread books I read decades ago. I appreciated them at the time, but I think it might be different now.
rizzothesmall@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 348d
Politician lying?! That's unpossible!
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 10 pts · 348d
if your mom is stealing medication, which it sounds like from a hospital and using it on herself, with no proper diagnosis/condition, its ON HER if she almost dies from it.
Kirp123@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 348d
Just Dunce Vance is a big fat liar, who could have seen this coming.
individual@toast.ooo · 8 pts · 348d
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 347d
but when were they Mexican?
SailorFuzz@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 347d
who were they mexican?
individual@toast.ooo · 1 pts · 346d
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 347d
Remember when Republicans got mad at politicians lying to them? "Read my lips, no new taxes"
humanspiral@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 347d
FYI, fentanyl is used in US hospitals as the cheapest opiate. Excess OD deaths from fentanyl tend are only ever caused by it being "accidentally present" in another drug. Paying the Taliban to grow opium for US export (they can still prevent local sales) could be a viable path to affordable US healthcare without fentanyl. Much US supply of fentanyl is stolen from legal hospital supplies.
If there was a real national emergency for fentanyl from Canada, a war on hospitals providing 100x the fentanyl that is seized on Canadian border to tax them an extra 25% is going to get them back to using morphine/oxy whatever that costs.
gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org · 3 pts · 347d
Fentanyl is not the cheapest opiate in US hospitals, and is not used as a substitute for morphine or oxycodone. It's primarily used for anesthesia, where oxycodone/hydrocodone/morphine/hydromorphone are used in the units as pain killers taken orally. Injectable hydromorphone is cheaper and more commonly used for acute pain than fentanyl.
Source: work in a hospital pharmacy
humanspiral@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 347d
Ok thank you. I've known patients who lived for a month receiving constant fentanyl that month.
Opiates for anasthesia? surprising. What previous "gas"/process did it replace?
gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 347d
It's part of general anesthesia, along with other drugs such as midazolam, propofol, ketamine, etomidate, etc. It augments anesthesia gases such as sevoflurane/desflurane/isoflurane, though we're getting outside my realm of expertise; I'm not an anesthesiologist so I can't specify why a certain combination of drugs might be used vs another.
borQue@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 348d
Howcome anyone listens to this idiot? Tell me one thing what made him important.
village604@adultswim.fan · 7 pts · 348d
I don't think anyone really does. I think he's desperately trying to become relevant and it keeps failing.
He's only VP because he's a complete non-threat to Trump.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 348d
And Peter Theil agreed to rig the electio- oops ha ha what I meant was Theil agreed to fund whatever trump wanted if he let this guy take over when he eventually stroked out in a year or two.
All going to plan!
HerNameIsTiffaney@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 333d
percent@infosec.pub · 0 pts · 343d
This image implies that someone who would steal drugs from patients would not also purchase drugs from other people? Why not both?
I've known quite a few addicts, and I don't think any of them are as selective as this image describes.