cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/7760707
"Death to Germany because they say their reason for existing is to support 'Israel'^[Not a joke, they call this "Staatsräson".]? That's genocidal against Germans."
Sorry, but I don't care about your colonizer fragility.
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54 Comments
Pajonk@szmer.info · 21 pts · 164d
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 164d
Do you bite, the hand that feeds you? Do you stay , down on your knees?
Of course these fuckers won't unilaterally speak out against authoritarians.
EDIT : these people are the kind that will say "Down with rainbow capitalism" and if you ask them "because of the rainbows or because of the capitalism?" they will refuse to give a straight answer.
Grazed@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 164d
This feels like whataboutism, especially if the poster is American. I'm Canadian and I mainly criticize Canada/US/Israel, because that's the empire I'm a citizen of.
Pajonk@szmer.info · 5 pts · 164d
So commenting about imperialist state under anti imperialistic meme is whataboutism?
And I'm living in Europe, and I criticize imperialism that doesn't affect me that much like usa, Israel, but also Russian imperialism and attack on independent country Ukraine, and that is showing Europe and Poland as it's enemy. I'm also criticizing Chinese exploitation of Africa, so the thing that gives us very cheap goods.
But what this have to do with the topic, I don't know.
Grazed@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 161d
"So commenting about imperialist state under anti imperialistic meme is whataboutism?"
Sometimes. Commenting about any topic can be whataboutism if it fits the definition.
If I was saying "death to the IDF" and the comment was "what about the Russian military???", ya, that would be whataboutism.
Pajonk@szmer.info · 1 pts · 161d
How in a hell you get the idea, that meme about white imperialism is about one specific country, like USA, not other imperialistic states like Russia or Israel? You know, that russia and Israel are also mostly white?
Grazed@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 160d
I'm talking about the post, which is primarily about Israel and it's allies. Your comment was wholly unproductive
Pajonk@szmer.info · 1 pts · 160d
So let's pretend, that only western imperialism is the problem, good :D
Grazed@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 159d
Oh so let's pretend only eastern imperialism is bad, got you!! (Now I'm doing the whataboutism)
Yliaster@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 156d
Ngl "whataboutism" has always appeared to be a pseudo intellectual criticism.
It's consistent to expect a unilateral criticism, and sometimes, people don't do that because they actually are hypocrites.
Grazed@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 154d
God you can just read what a word means before talking about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Yliaster@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 153d
I know what it means, thanks. I stand by what I said.
veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 16 pts · 163d
If those feddit.org mods knew how to read this post they'd be very upset.
Draconic_NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 12 pts · 163d
They can't even see it anymore, because of the defederation. Which is very much a good thing. I can just imagine how those feddit trolls would react to this.
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 163d
LeninWeave@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 163d
Yes, it's always projection. The reason they're afraid of these things is because the imperial core did them and still does them and they project that on the global south.
BananaIsABerry@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 163d
So like, where would I go?
commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -5 pts · 164d
LeninWeave@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 164d
I'm not sure I understand what this comment means.
commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -6 pts · 164d
Mocking left-wing nationalists since it doesn't solve anything for those actually being oppressed (3rd world proletariat) and just promotes "blood and soil" type shit
LeninWeave@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 164d
I'm still not sure I understand. Are you saying that it doesn't help the third world proletariat for stolen land to be returned to them and for them to have self-determination? Would it not help Palestinians to have their land returned and have control of their own nation?
commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 164d
No it doesn't help the proletariat, it only changes who the oppressor is and arguably only makes it easier and cheaper in the long run for foreign imperial powers to economically exploit them.
This article honestly sums it up better than I ever could and isn't too long, I'd recommend giving it a read.
Also, national liberation would simply not work in Palestine - after all, do you really believe that if Palestinians came out furiously waving their flags one morning, it'd make Israel (which is another national liberation state btw) feel bad and stop their genocide and settling?
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 164d
Quill7513@slrpnk.net · 6 pts · 164d
how? the people of the global south to my experiece see their role in the world to act as responsible parties to the land they are indigenous to. the people of the global north, be they 1st world or 2nd world, have invaded this land, don't respect its laws, and have claimed it as their own. this is what is meant by stolen land. it's not a blood and soil thing where the land belongs to the people via bloodright. it's more accurate to say the people belong to the land, be that indigenous american relationships to turtle island or the concept in palestinian teaching that they are seeds.
i'm ready adjust my stance, but your notion that landback movements to return people to their stolen land and allow them to manage their society based on their relationship to the land being anti-left, or even fascist, strikes me as very odd at best, and possibly paternalistic at worst
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 164d
National liberation from imperialism and colonialism is a good thing, actually.
derAbsender@piefed.social · 3 pts · 164d
As a Motor for liberation.
Nationalism must be abandoned and the national Elite is not allowed to be formed, be it bureaucratic or capitalist.
Otherwise it is just a vehicle from one oppression to the next.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 164d
Nationalism as a reaction to imperialism and colonialism is progressive, and aids the liberatory movement. Nationalism in the context of an imperialist country solidifies imperialism. Nationalism is not something that exists in the abstract, but instead is highly contextual.
Quill7513@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 164d
i think i'd clarify that there's a difference between having a national identity and organizing a state around national supremacism. i want to live in a place where i am allowed to be Appalachian. i do not want to live in a place where Appalachian is a state promoted identity and other identities are excluded
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 164d
There's also a difference between the kinds of progressive nationalist movements like Algeria in kicking out the French, and creating a national supremacist state.
derAbsender@piefed.social · 1 pts · 164d
Yes and therefore after the national liberation was achieved the context of Nationalism Changes drastically
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 164d
Sure.
Digit@lemmy.wtf · -15 pts · 164d
racist post.
LeninWeave@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 164d
Digit@lemmy.wtf · -8 pts · 164d
Do you care about the rules here?
Top item in rule 7's list.
I wonder if you even realise you're doing it. The false equivalence, the collective blame by skin colour alone...
[Edit: not to mention the apparently absent consideration of the colonized white people with their land stolen, because that would defeat the racist narrative presented here in the OP image.]
87Six@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 163d
This isn't racism
You're just in the post and you don't like it
Fragile little colonizer
LeninWeave@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 164d
There is no such thing as anti-white racism.
ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one · 10 pts · 163d
White people can be racist against white skin people cause the concept of race is social construct designed by oppressors to colonize and oppress anyone.
Ireland was colonized by the British since the early 12th century. Irish people have faced inherent power systems that was only in favor of the British.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/unthinkable-are-irish-people-becoming-less-black-1.2453237
Or how Eastern Europeans faced violence during Brexit.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eastern-europe-brexit_uk_5accc2f5e4b0152082fdd6c8?ec_carp=7211846813776112354
Nigel Farage's very racist Reform Party has a legitimate shot at forming the next UK government. Nigel Farage has gone on the record displaying their hatred for Eastern Europeans.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/nigel-farage-caught-saying-eastern-europeans-are-eating-our-swans-in-royal-parks-what-did-he-mean/ar-AA1NguYf
Which the hateful allegation of eating swans and carps is the same thing as JD Vance claiming that Haitians are eating cats and dogs.
Or how about Untermensch was a slur to mean to anyone of Eastern European descent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untermensch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_policy_of_Nazi_Germany
Or Finnish people in immigrant to the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States#Finnish_Americans
Italians had no protection under the law in the US for a period of time. Italians were considered to be white and we're not given any protection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States#Italian_Americans
This is why racism is a social construct created by the ruling class. The definition of whiteness can and will change at the behest of the ruling class to justify oppressing anyone who doesn't fit the the parameters of being white. Even though historically Irish, Eastern Europeans, Finnish, and Italians have skin color that is white and are not considered white.
LeninWeave@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 163d
This is true, but the distinction between "white people" and "white skin people" makes it clear that the boundaries of "white people" are in effect defined by who is not a target of racism. It is, as you say, a social construct.
njm1314@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 163d
Frankly I usually just default to saying fuck the Anglo-Saxons.
LeninWeave@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 163d
A lot of "white" people aren't Anglo-Saxons, though.
Tetragrade@leminal.space · 0 pts · 163d
You aint a real leftist unless you swallow every sabotage stance ever invented by COINTELPRO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_Hoc_Committee_for_a_Marxist-Leninist_Party
- An Undercover CIA Agent
LeninWeave@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 162d
The fact that "white" once excluded "Irish" under certain conditions doesn't make anti-white racism real.
Tetragrade@leminal.space · 1 pts · 162d
Amazing. You a Mossad asset, or just helping them for the love of the game?
LeninWeave@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 162d
You got me, Mossad agents want you to understand whiteness.
Digit@lemmy.wtf · -1 pts · 164d
That's fun when uttered in intentional irony, satirically mocking the implausibility, ignorance, bigotry, denialism, etc. But I suspect you are saying that in all seriousness.
LeninWeave@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 164d
I'm genuinely baffled that you think I or other people who have said the same thing are being ironic. As others have pointed out, racism requires power structures. Anti-white "racism" isn't real because it has no power structure to enforce it.
Quill7513@slrpnk.net · -1 pts · 163d
not enough people know racism != bigotry
edit: okay, i guess i have to expain.
::: spoiler explanation of the difference between racism and bigotry what most people call racism is a form of bigotry. in this case what they are talking about is discrimination, hate speech, and hate action based on the socially derived construct of race. what race has been throughout the ages has changed. but some contributing factors to race are phenotype (skin tone, bone structure, hair color, eye color, other physical attributes), national identity, language spoken, and religious practice. in our current age of scientific racism, the most common factors for discrimination on race are phenotype and familial belonging through genetics.
racism is influenced by bigotry, but does not require bigotry to sustain itself. usually racism is established through bigotry and then maintained through access to capital. what racism is is structural social imbalance based on race. racism requires a power shructure that favors one group based on the socially derived construct of race at the expense of another, or multiple other, groupings.
one of the most common misconceptions is that whiteness is determined by skin tone. it is not. whiteness is access to privelege in a color-coded racist society. let's start by using the racist structure that's most familiar to me to explain. i live in the so-called united states. i have always live in majority minority neighborhoods. the fact that this is even possible, for me to have lived my entire life in majority minority neighborhoods, suggests a problem. my current neighborhood, my neighbors are all pale. they are, however, not white. they don't get to be white because the primary determinant of whiteness in the so-called united states because they have accents and dress a little bit differently. for this, the determiners of whiteness, the police, harass them. in otherwords, the police use their access to violence to maintain a racial hierarchy that my neighbors don't get to benefit from because they're not white, they're pale.
this is what is meant when people say "you can't be racist against white people." if you could, that would mean they're not white, because racism requires you having access to privelege in a racial hierarchy and whiteness is who benefits from that. you can be biggoted against white people. and in fact white people with proximity to poverty frequently endure bigotry for not performing whiteness correctly. often, because they've grown up in majority minority neighborhoods and have picked up social behaviors from people who do not get to be white, be that how they talk, how they dress, or even how the approach problem solving. if you've ever heard the term "white trash" you've heard a slur for poor white people that often the people around them take more offense to than they do. :::
edit 2: boo me all you like. @LeninWeave@lemmy.ml and i rarely agree, and in this case we do, and i'm gonna celebrate that for us. go read a book or something
LeninWeave@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 162d
I liked your explanation and thought it was good. I'm confused by multiple people in 2026 commenting and voting in a place called "leftymemes" not understanding such a basic concept as "racism requires privilege".
You can tell it's true even by thinking about it quickly without any deep analysis: a definition of racism based purely on prejudice would treat "cracker" and the n-slur at categorically equivalent, which is obviously ridiculous.
Grazed@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 164d
Cracker
LeninWeave@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 164d